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Vaccination and Religious Beliefs

Theweirdtophat

Well-Known Member
Tell you what - hit me with the best evidence you have that Gardasil is untested and causes harm. Anything I've found so far shows completely the opposite.

Ha.. ninja'd by SkepticThinker

I don't know what ninaj'd even means but anyways, I wouldn't want to spoon feed it to you. You can type and read, or at least, I think you can, so you already have the tools necessary for the search. Not that it matters as you wouldn't believe me anyway unless you witnessed it yourself. I see it so many times. Someone says "Provide evidence or proof." and when someone does they say "Nah, I still think you're making it up. lolz", which is something you'd probably say. It happens a lot. I've already said what needed to be said. Take it or leave it.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
Herd immunity, viruses mutate when they have more hosts to well host it, people have medical conditions that forces them not to vaccinate. Not vaccinating is not only your choice, it's public responsibility. This was explained in detail several times already.

I personally don't believe "herd immunity' is anyone's right to the point where some people think such (supposed) immunity from illness is due to them and they are entitled then to belittle others who have a different perspective or force others to inject themselves or their children with toxins.

Herd immunity relative to vaccines is a myth lingering from the days when it was believed that vaccines offered lifetime immunity against disease. It is now know such is not the case. Vaccines only offer short term immunity, unlike the natural disease which does provide lifetime immunity. Due to the use of vaccines most people do not and will not have life time immunity to childhood diseases, like measles, mumps, chickenpox etc. which most people got during childhood, therefore making them vulnerable to contracting these at an age when the effects are much worse. Along with this, it is those who are vaccinated that are most often responsible for spreading disease.

“Herd Immunity.” The flawed science and failures of mass vaccination, Suzanne Humphries, MD

The original idea that vaccination could strengthen the herd’s immunity, assumed that there was only one clinical event, and that one natural exposure equated life -long immunity. But this was not the case back when the diseases circulated freely. Vaccinators miss the point that the body defends most efficiently as a result of ongoing re-exposure. They try to mimic this with boosters. But the vaccination plan leaves the elderly(due to vaccine-induced immunity being short-lived and antigens taken out of circulation) and the very young(due to lack of transferrable maternal immunity) more vulnerable to several diseases that were not a threat to them before vaccination. In the case of chicken pox, vaccination renders the elderly more apt to shingles infections, because the herd has now lost the continued and benign re-exposures to children with chicken pox. - See more at:
“Herd Immunity.” The flawed science and failures of mass vaccination, Suzanne Humphries, MD | International Medical Council on Vaccination



Studies Show that Vaccinated Individuals Spread Disease
Vaccine recipients can carry diseases in the back of their throat and infect others while displaying no symptoms of a disease

"Scientific evidence demonstrates that individuals vaccinated with live virus vaccines such as MMR (measles, mumps and rubella), rotavirus, chicken pox, shingles and influenza can shed the virus for many weeks or months afterwards and infect the vaccinated and unvaccinated alike.1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10

Furthermore, vaccine recipients can carry diseases in the back of their throat and infect others while displaying no symptoms of a disease.11,12,13

“Numerous scientific studies indicate that children who receive a live virus vaccination can shed the disease and infect others for weeks or even months afterwards. Thus, parents who vaccinate their children can indeed put others at risk,” explains Leslie Manookian, documentary filmmaker and activist. Manookian’s award winning documentary, The Greater Good, aims to open a dialog about vaccine safety.

Both unvaccinated and vaccinated individuals are at risk from exposure to those recently vaccinated. Vaccine failure is widespread; vaccine-induced immunity is not permanent and recent outbreaks of diseases such as whooping cough, mumps and measles have occurred in fully vaccinated populations.14,15 Flu vaccine recipients become more susceptible to future infection after repeated vaccination.16, 17

“Health officials should require a two-week quarantine of all children and adults who receive vaccinations,” says Sally Fallon Morell, president of the Weston A. Price Foundation. “This is the minimum amount of time required to prevent transmission of infectious diseases to the rest of the population, including individuals who have been previously vaccinated.”
» Studies Show that Vaccinated Individuals Spread Disease Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
I personally don't believe "herd immunity' is anyone's right to the point where some people think such (supposed) immunity from illness is due to them and they are entitled then to belittle others who have a different perspective or force others to inject themselves or their children with toxins.

Herd immunity relative to vaccines is a myth lingering from the days when it was believed that vaccines offered lifetime immunity against disease. It is now know such is not the case. Vaccines only offer short term immunity, unlike the natural disease which does provide lifetime immunity. Due to the use of vaccines most people do not and will not have life time immunity to childhood diseases, like measles, mumps, chickenpox etc. which most people got during childhood, therefore making them vulnerable to contracting these at an age when the effects are much worse. Along with this, it is those who are vaccinated that are most often responsible for spreading disease.

“Herd Immunity.” The flawed science and failures of mass vaccination, Suzanne Humphries, MD

The original idea that vaccination could strengthen the herd’s immunity, assumed that there was only one clinical event, and that one natural exposure equated life -long immunity. But this was not the case back when the diseases circulated freely. Vaccinators miss the point that the body defends most efficiently as a result of ongoing re-exposure. They try to mimic this with boosters. But the vaccination plan leaves the elderly(due to vaccine-induced immunity being short-lived and antigens taken out of circulation) and the very young(due to lack of transferrable maternal immunity) more vulnerable to several diseases that were not a threat to them before vaccination. In the case of chicken pox, vaccination renders the elderly more apt to shingles infections, because the herd has now lost the continued and benign re-exposures to children with chicken pox. - See more at:
“Herd Immunity.” The flawed science and failures of mass vaccination, Suzanne Humphries, MD | International Medical Council on Vaccination



Studies Show that Vaccinated Individuals Spread Disease
Vaccine recipients can carry diseases in the back of their throat and infect others while displaying no symptoms of a disease

"Scientific evidence demonstrates that individuals vaccinated with live virus vaccines such as MMR (measles, mumps and rubella), rotavirus, chicken pox, shingles and influenza can shed the virus for many weeks or months afterwards and infect the vaccinated and unvaccinated alike.1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10

Furthermore, vaccine recipients can carry diseases in the back of their throat and infect others while displaying no symptoms of a disease.11,12,13

“Numerous scientific studies indicate that children who receive a live virus vaccination can shed the disease and infect others for weeks or even months afterwards. Thus, parents who vaccinate their children can indeed put others at risk,” explains Leslie Manookian, documentary filmmaker and activist. Manookian’s award winning documentary, The Greater Good, aims to open a dialog about vaccine safety.

Both unvaccinated and vaccinated individuals are at risk from exposure to those recently vaccinated. Vaccine failure is widespread; vaccine-induced immunity is not permanent and recent outbreaks of diseases such as whooping cough, mumps and measles have occurred in fully vaccinated populations.14,15 Flu vaccine recipients become more susceptible to future infection after repeated vaccination.16, 17

“Health officials should require a two-week quarantine of all children and adults who receive vaccinations,” says Sally Fallon Morell, president of the Weston A. Price Foundation. “This is the minimum amount of time required to prevent transmission of infectious diseases to the rest of the population, including individuals who have been previously vaccinated.”
» Studies Show that Vaccinated Individuals Spread Disease Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!
Are you actually saying that children are better of contracting smallpox, polio, measles, rubella, pertussis, etc. than they are being vaccinated against them?

If you are, that is complete rubbish. And it's dangerous.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
Tell you what - hit me with the best evidence you have that Gardasil is untested and causes harm. Anything I've found so far shows completely the opposite.


What Could Happen?
Well, you could be one less. And not in the way that Merck means it. You could die in the prime of your young life, as these women have. But, more likely you could develop a chronic and debilitating autoimmune condition, primary ovarian failure, or bizarre neurological impairments such as the now documented POTS syndrome. I personally have seen patients with new onset mania and psychosis, as well as debilitating and treatment resistant depression.

Even the package insert itself declares a rate of 2.5% serious adverse events, and that is only within the 15 day trial monitoring period. That’s 2,500 life-altering events per 100,000 women.

Lucija Tomljenovic, PhD, poses this important question:

“Is it ethical to put young women at risk of death or a disabling autoimmune disease at a pre-adolescent age for a vaccine that has not yet prevented a single case of cervical cancer, a disease that may develop 20-30 years after exposure to HPV, when the same can be prevented with regular Pap screening which carries no risks.”

Given this, it is all the more harrowing that we are living in a legislative climate that puts profits before our children’s health. In many states across the nation, bills are hitting the floor that seek to eliminate the ethical principle of informed consent by allowing children as young as 12 to receive the HPV vaccine without parental oversight.

Inform yourself, find your compass, so that you can be one less woman, wishing she had only known more.
The New Gardasil: Is It Right For Your Daughter?
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member

What Could Happen?
Well, you could be one less. And not in the way that Merck means it. You could die in the prime of your young life, as these women have. But, more likely you could develop a chronic and debilitating autoimmune condition, primary ovarian failure, or bizarre neurological impairments such as the now documented POTS syndrome. I personally have seen patients with new onset mania and psychosis, as well as debilitating and treatment resistant depression.

Even the package insert itself declares a rate of 2.5% serious adverse events, and that is only within the 15 day trial monitoring period. That’s 2,500 life-altering events per 100,000 women.

Lucija Tomljenovic, PhD, poses this important question:

“Is it ethical to put young women at risk of death or a disabling autoimmune disease at a pre-adolescent age for a vaccine that has not yet prevented a single case of cervical cancer, a disease that may develop 20-30 years after exposure to HPV, when the same can be prevented with regular Pap screening which carries no risks.”

Given this, it is all the more harrowing that we are living in a legislative climate that puts profits before our children’s health. In many states across the nation, bills are hitting the floor that seek to eliminate the ethical principle of informed consent by allowing children as young as 12 to receive the HPV vaccine without parental oversight.

Inform yourself, find your compass, so that you can be one less woman, wishing she had only known more.
The New Gardasil: Is It Right For Your Daughter?
I guess you missed this:

Study of 200,000 females:
Safety of quadrivalent human papillomavirus vaccine administered routinely to females. - PubMed - NCBI

Study of 997,585 females:
Autoimmune, neurological, and venous thromboembolic adverse events after immunisation of adolescent girls with quadrivalent human papillomavirus vaccine in Denmark and Sweden: cohort study | The BMJ
 

McBell

Unbound
I don't know what ninaj'd even means but anyways, I wouldn't want to spoon feed it to you. You can type and read, or at least, I think you can, so you already have the tools necessary for the search. Not that it matters as you wouldn't believe me anyway unless you witnessed it yourself. I see it so many times. Someone says "Provide evidence or proof." and when someone does they say "Nah, I still think you're making it up. lolz", which is something you'd probably say. It happens a lot. I've already said what needed to be said. Take it or leave it.
So basically you know your "evidence" is bull **** and do not want to embarrass yourself further by presenting it.

Most likely the best decision you have made in this thread.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
Are you actually saying that children are better of contracting smallpox, polio, measles, rubella, pertussis, etc. than they are being vaccinated against them?

If you are, that is complete rubbish. And it's dangerous.

I had measles. rubella, mumps, chickenpox as a child and so did almost everyone else I knew.
Smallpox vaccine is not even administered any longer. The vaccine was last used in the general population in the United States in 1971. At that time, the risk of serious adverse effects from the vaccine was judged to be greater than the risk of exposure to smallpox. As far as polio, just about all the cases in the world today are caused by the vaccine.


Vaccine-Caused Polio on the Rise
Another fact that may surprise you is that the vaccine itself is the source of newer cases of this disease. At the same time that world health officials are declaring a victory on polio in India, they are calling a global meeting in Switzerland on the problem of vaccine-caused polio.

Oral Polio Vaccine May Be Causing Serious Problems
 

McBell

Unbound
I had measles. rubella, mumps, chickenpox as a child and so did almost everyone else I knew.
Smallpox vaccine is not even administered any longer. The vaccine was last used in the general population in the United States in 1971. At that time, the risk of serious adverse effects from the vaccine was judged to be greater than the risk of exposure to smallpox. As far as polio, just about all the cases in the world today are caused by the vaccine.


Vaccine-Caused Polio on the Rise
Another fact that may surprise you is that the vaccine itself is the source of newer cases of this disease. At the same time that world health officials are declaring a victory on polio in India, they are calling a global meeting in Switzerland on the problem of vaccine-caused polio.

Oral Polio Vaccine May Be Causing Serious Problems
Do you know what they call alternative medicine that works?
 

InChrist

Free4ever
I may have missed those, but not this:


Results in a New Study Published in the Annals of Medicine Show Startling Discrepancy in Human Papillomavirus (HPV) Vaccine Policy and Evidence-Based Medicine
The publication of the startling results of a Canadian study involving the effectiveness of the Human Papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine against cervical cancer demonstrate that vaccine policy and evidence-based medicine are at odds. Lucija Tomljenovic, PhD and Christopher A. Shaw, PhD of the University of British Columbia’s evidence-based study was recently published in the Annals of Medicine, a highly-ranked peer reviewed medical journal. (http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/07853890.2011.645353)
 

philbo

High Priest of Cynicism
I don't know what ninaj'd even means but anyways, I wouldn't want to spoon feed it to you. You can type and read, or at least, I think you can, so you already have the tools necessary for the search. Not that it matters as you wouldn't believe me anyway unless you witnessed it yourself. I see it so many times. Someone says "Provide evidence or proof." and when someone does they say "Nah, I still think you're making it up. lolz", which is something you'd probably say. It happens a lot. I've already said what needed to be said. Take it or leave it.
Ninja'd just means that SkepticThinker swiftly got in there with a couple of large-scale studies..

Saying "I wouldn't want to spoon feed it to you" sounds to me exactly like "I haven't got anything"

» Studies Show that Vaccinated Individuals Spread Disease Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!
Had you noticed in that article that when he says "studies show etc.", he posts references to studies which don't?
I'd call that more than a little bit deceitful.

I had measles. rubella, mumps, chickenpox as a child and so did almost everyone else I knew.
My father very nearly died after my sister and I picked up mumps as children & he caught it from us: it's a very dangerous one to get if you're getting on a bit.
And I know a few people with relatives who've died from measles.

Saying "I had whatever and it did me no harm" is a pointless anecdote which means absolutely nothing in public health terms.

Why don't you tell me, I'm sure you'd like to.
I think you'll find that alternative medicine that works, is called "medicine"

With all due respect, Lucija Tomljenovic is a serial vaccine scare "researcher" - she has published that I am aware of two studies linking vaccines to developmental disorders that were complete and utter bunkum. A quick scan shows she has a reputation for making up anti-vaccination rubbish, after a few have been shown to be that it really isn't worth trusting anything she writes.
 

philbo

High Priest of Cynicism
It has struck me that you might not believe me about Lucija Tomljenovic - how many of her scare stories would I need to show as being untrue before you accept she's a distrustworthy source?
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
I had measles. rubella, mumps, chickenpox as a child and so did almost everyone else I knew.

Good for you? So what? Anecdotes are useless.

My grandfather's baby brother contracted whooping cough before the vaccine was invented and died. Who's anecdote wins? Or should we trust the scientific method instead?
Smallpox vaccine is not even administered any longer. The vaccine was last used in the general population in the United States in 1971. At that time, the risk of serious adverse effects from the vaccine was judged to be greater than the risk of exposure to smallpox. As far as polio, just about all the cases in the world today are caused by the vaccine.
Uh yeah because we eradicated it thanks to .... vaccines!!

Vaccine-Caused Polio on the Rise
Another fact that may surprise you is that the vaccine itself is the source of newer cases of this disease. At the same time that world health officials are declaring a victory on polio in India, they are calling a global meeting in Switzerland on the problem of vaccine-caused polio.

Oral Polio Vaccine May Be Causing Serious Problems
Please stop posting nonsense. It's irresponsible.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
With all due respect, Lucija Tomljenovic is a serial vaccine scare "researcher" - she has published that I am aware of two studies linking vaccines to developmental disorders that were complete and utter bunkum. A quick scan shows she has a reputation for making up anti-vaccination rubbish, after a few have been shown to be that it really isn't worth trusting anything she writes.

Though a quote was included from Lucija Tomljenovic, the linked article was by Kelly Brogan MD. Are you simply of the opinion that anyone, physician, scientist. or otherwise who questions vaccine safety then automatically has no reputation or anything of value to offer on the subject?
 

InChrist

Free4ever
Uh yeah because we eradicated it thanks to .... vaccines!!

Please stop posting nonsense. It's irresponsible.

There is plenty of info available on the real history of polio if you care to look into it.

Smoke, Mirrors, and the “Disappearance” Of Polio | International Medical Council on Vaccination
"Unbeknownst to most doctors, the polio-vaccine history involves a massive public health service makeover during an era when a live, deadly strain of poliovirus infected the Salk polio vaccines, and paralyzed hundreds of children and their contacts. These were the vaccines that were supposedly responsible for the decline in polio from 1955 to 1961! But there is a more sinister reason for the “decline” in polio during those years; in 1955, a very creative re-definition of poliovirus infections was invented, to “cover” the fact that many cases of ”polio” paralysis had no poliovirus in their systems at all. While this protected the reputation of the Salk vaccine, it muddied the waters of history in a big way.


Even during the peak epidemics, unifactorial poliovirus infection, resulting in long-term paralysis, was a low-incidence disease[2] that was falsely represented as a rampant and violent crippler by Basil O’Connor’s “March Of Dimes” advertising campaigns. At the same time as Basil O’Connor was pulling in 45 million dollars a year to fund the Salk vaccine development, scientists started to realize that other viruses like Coxsackie, echo and enteroviruses, could also cause polio. They also discussed the fact that lead, arsenic, DDT, and other commonly-used neurotoxins, could identically mimic the lesions of polio. During the great epidemics in the United States, the pathology called polio was reversed by alternative medical doctors who attested to great success, using detoxification procedures available at the time – yet they were categorically ignored[3].


Now it is admitted in the medical literature that other viruses can cause polio, yet few people on the street have any idea."


I don't think it is nonsense to post this information. On the contrary I believe it is extremely important for people to know the other side of the story, have access to all the information so as to be able to make an informed decision when it comes to something as important as health. I believe decisions which impact a person's health should be made carefully after considering all the information and not based on scare tactics of those in a position to profit or the peer pressure of herd mentality.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
My first hand experience with many things is not within the range of the average person. I don't expect people to quit using sarcasm or saying something they don't actually mean just because I am prone to not "getting it." Rather, I have learned to watch and listen for certain that indicate such things, and of course getting to know someone really helps out a lot.
You yourself are in an atypical position. However, no matter what your sources say, allergic reactions to the vaccines are very rare. The benefits have clearly outweighed the risks. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
Try telling that to parents who have autistic children because of the vaccine.
 

Poisonshady313

Well-Known Member
Yes I do know enough. I know that putting that many chemicals in little bodies screw up the immune system since a little body hasn't fully developed their immune system.
Quite the opposite. Putting those chemicals in little bodies help protect otherwise vulnerable children, precisely because their body hasn't fully developed their immune system. The newborn immune system is more sophisticated than you give it credit for.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
Quite the opposite. Putting those chemicals in little bodies help protect otherwise vulnerable children, precisely because their body hasn't fully developed their immune system. The newborn immune system is more sophisticated than you give it credit for.
yea that's just what they want you to believe lol.
 
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