Vaccination and Religious Beliefs

[SomeRandom]

Yeah man. We pay for everything.

That sucks. I got a lot of mine mostly through the school. Haven't really paid for any vaccines ever.

 

[Madhuri]

Umm, Herd Immunity, remember? This ban is not on things like the cold and flu, this is for things like Polio (which can cripple you for life) or Hep B/C or
smallpox or other preventable horrifying illnesses. We can't just get all complacent and be like "oh well that's done with then. No need to be vaccinated anymore." That's how things like that come back!!!

Also, we've gone through several epidemics of sorts in the last few years down here in Aus. Whooping Cough was one that was alarming. Then we had the Meningocchoccal scare a few years prior to that and pretty much every Primary and High school was just like, okay now you kids are getting vaccinated!!! I think the newest one is well, I don't know exactly, but I remember hearing about some sort of epidemic of some sorts happening in Aussie hospitals amongst the kids.

What was the Meningocchoccal scare? There was a girl at my high school who died from it. None of us had even heard of it before that. So suddenly everyone at school had to get a vaccine for one of the strands of meningocchoccal, even though the one everyone was given was apparently the rarest strand to catch. I do think that the media and pharma make a bigger deal of these incidents than is probably realistic. But then, there's a lot of money to be made.

 

[Quintessence]

Are you one of these people or are you a religious person who avoids vaccination for religious reasons?

I wouldn't avoid vaccination, but I also have mixed feelings about them. Not because of some rubbish concern about aborted human organisms, but out of concern for the non-human world. "Advances" in technology, and particularly medicine, have been a primary driver of human overpopulation, and, by extension, abuse of the non-human world and the sixth mass extinction. Disease is supposed to be a mediator in the population growth rates of organisms (among other things), and technologies that disrupt that basically allow the overpopulation bubble to keep inflating. This may seem smart in the short term, but in the long term, it adds pressure to an already stressed system. It serves to perpetuate something that I consider to be an unacceptable pattern.

But it is not an either-or thing. If humans can manage to get their collective heads out of their $#@% and start enacting the birth-rate solution and other measures that respect the non-human world, I have no problem at all with various methods that prolong and lengthen human life spans, vaccines or otherwise. It's when we take the "highest good" of human flourishing to the point that it rapes and pillages the non-human world that I very strongly object, and unfortunately, that has been the chosen path for the past couple centuries or so.

 

[SomeRandom]

What was the Meningocchoccal scare? There was a girl at my high school who died from it. None of us had even heard of it before that. So suddenly everyone at school had to get a vaccine for one of the strands of meningocchoccal, even though the one everyone was given was apparently the rarest strand to catch. I do think that the media and pharma make a bigger deal of these incidents than is probably realistic. But then, there's a lot of money to be made.

Several kids got Meningocchoccal and went to various hospitals (I do think it was in fact considered a "rare" strain.) Most were toddlers if memory serves. Basically their bodies were literally rotting and many had to have amputations just to survive. I've seen the photos and yeah, I would gladly take the Vaccination over that particular illness, rare or not!!

Go to one of those parents and tell them the media "made a bigger deal out of those incidents" I double dog dare you, mate!

In order for the supposed "Pharma" thing to be true, it would have to be a global organized event.

 

[Marisa]

You're right, I didn't pose an actual question. Someone said earlier that they think kids who aren't immunised shouldn't be allowed to go to school. Someone else agreed. I didn't, particularly in a country like Australia where there isn't any disease epidemic for those particular common diseases that we vaccinate against. To make such a ban on kids, even if we're just talking hypothetically, seems totalitarian to me. But I'm happy for people to explain why it isn't totalitarian or why it's a really good idea for kids to be banned from school if they don't get immunised.

Here in the US we are experiencing an outbreak of measles from folks in the "fear of vaccinations" community. Here's my question: while you're pontificating about your right to educate your kids, what about a kid who's being treated for cancer? Do you have the right to take your unvaccinated child into an area where he/she could expose a child with a compromised immune system to something that could, in fact, kill that child before the cancer does? I get your "moral" objection to the possibility that vaccines contain aborted fetal matter, but where does your morality stand on the issue of a child with a compromised immune systems's right to receive an education without having to fear being exposed to a disease for which there is a vaccine, that you just opted out of? On page two, Neitzche has already commented that he/she suffers from an autoimmune disease, and that measles almost killed him/her. I didn't notice you responded to that comment, perhaps because you were focused on the fetal matter issue.

 

[Madhuri]

Several kids got Meningocchoccal and went to various hospitals (I do think it was in fact considered a "rare" strain.) Most were toddlers if memory serves. Basically their bodies were literally rotting and many had to have amputations just to survive. Go to one of those parents and tell them the media "made a bigger deal out of those incidents" I dare you!

In order for the supposed "Pharma" thing to be true, it would have to be a global organized event.

Not sure why I didn't hear about the meningocchoccal incident. I wasn't expecting it to be a bunch of toddlers who got it. How does that happen??

It as on the radio a couple of weeks back that this new policy in Aus was because the government was being threatened with a law suit for loss of income due to rising trend of parents no immunising their kids. But I haven't been able to find info online about this to validate it. Grrr.

 

[LuisDantas]

It's so expensive! I've had a few vaccines in the last 12 months and it's cost closer to $1000. If we're so interested in public health, how about making it affordable..

Weird. Few people in Brazil have ever paid for a vaccine.

 

[Nietzsche]

On page two, Neitzche has already commented that he/she suffers from an autoimmune disease, and that measles almost killed him/her. I didn't notice you responded to that comment, perhaps because you were focused on the fetal matter issue.

I'm a he, just to clarify.

Something else about vaccinations; if there are a number of people without them, the vaccine may not be enough. The more carriers you have for the pathogen, the more mutations it will amass. And eventually, it will become resistant to the vaccine. Now we've got a strain of the disease that will infect perfectly healthy, vaccinated individuals all because some mouth-breathing butt-whistlers gets their medical knowledge from Jenny McCarthy and people who think the British Royal Family are made up of reptilian shape-shifters.

 

[Madhuri]

Here in the US we are experiencing an outbreak of measles from folks in the "fear of vaccinations" community. Here's my question: while you're pontificating about your right to educate your kids, what about a kid who's being treated for cancer? Do you have the right to take your unvaccinated child into an area where he/she could expose a child with a compromised immune system to something that could, in fact, kill that child before the cancer does? I get your "moral" objection to the possibility that vaccines contain aborted fetal matter, but where does your morality stand on the issue of a child with a compromised immune systems's right to receive an education without having to fear being exposed to a disease for which there is a vaccine, that you just opted out of? On page two, Neitzche has already commented that he/she suffers from an autoimmune disease, and that measles almost killed him/her. I didn't notice you responded to that comment, perhaps because you were focused on the fetal matter issue.

I don't have a moral issue with the fetal ingredient. This whole thread is to learn about the perspective of a religious person. I'm not even anti-abortion. I think some people here are making assumptions about my beliefs in this topic.

I'm only just learning about a lot of this stuff. I didn't even know until tonight that people with auto-immune diseases couldn't be immunised. So I ask all to be patient with me.

 

[Marisa]

I'm a he, just to clarify.

I thought so, but I've been know to be wrong once or twice.

 

[SomeRandom]

Not sure why I didn't hear about the meningocchoccal incident. I wasn't expecting it to be a bunch of toddlers who got it. How does that happen??

It as on the radio a couple of weeks back that this new policy in Aus was because the government was being threatened with a law suit for loss of income due to rising trend of parents no immunising their kids. But I haven't been able to find info online about this to validate it. Grrr.

Maybe because it was a rare strain? Maybe it just wasn't on the radar? Maybe it was a mutated version of a previous strain and we just weren't quick enough? I'm not sure of the specifics, but there are a lot of variables.

Actually, I don't know who gave the radio that stupid info, but that is inaccurate. No law suits that you are describing have ever even been whispered about here. Also all vaccinations (on schedule) are free of charge anyway here.So the people not vaccinating their kids would have probably saved the Government money, technically speaking.

 

[Madhuri]

I'm a he, just to clarify.

Something else about vaccinations; if there are a number of people without them, the vaccine may not be enough. The more carriers you have for the pathogen, the more mutations it will amass. And eventually, it will become resistant to the vaccine. Now we've got a strain of the disease that will infect perfectly healthy, vaccinated individuals all because some mouth-breathing butt-whistlers gets their medical knowledge from Jenny McCarthy and people who think the British Royal Family are made up of reptilian shape-shifters.

There is that but I think a lot of people who are anti-vax have reached that stage through personal negative experience. That's why I'm sympathetic. If my kid had a bad reaction, I'd also freak out. But a lot of people don't try to understand both sides and weigh the matter rationally.

 

[Marisa]

I don't have a moral issue with the fetal ingredient. This whole thread is to learn about the perspective of a religious person. I'm not even anti-abortion. I think some people here are making assumptions about my beliefs in this topic.

My mistake then, the focus on the fetal component certainly made it seemed that was a main objection.

I'm only just learning about a lot of this stuff. I didn't even know until tonight that people with auto-immune diseases couldn't be immunised. So I ask all to be patient with me.

That seems fair.

 

[Madhuri]

Maybe because it was a rare strain? Maybe it just wasn't on the radar? Maybe it was a mutated version of a previous strain and we just weren't quick enough? I'm not sure of the specifics, but there are a lot of variables.

Actually, I don't know who gave the radio that stupid info, but that is inaccurate. No law suits that you are describing have ever even been whispered about here. Also all vaccinations are free of charge anyway here. So..............

I'm a bit confused about the radio matter tbh. You'd think they'd have their facts straight. Or that if it's true, there'd be information online -somewhere-.

 

[Nietzsche]

There is that but I think a lot of people who are anti-vax have reached that stage through personal negative experience. That's why I'm sympathetic. If my kid had a bad reaction, I'd also freak out. But a lot of people don't try to understand both sides and weigh the matter rationally.

Mostly because even assuming that the vaccines cause autism or whatever(and there is precisely zero evidence it does), it's still better than polio.

 

[SomeRandom]

I'm a bit confused about the radio matter tbh. You'd think they'd have their facts straight. Or that if it's true, there'd be information online -somewhere-.

Ehhh, not not really. Radio is mainly for entertainment, they're not often associated with ethical, reasonable or honest journalism. Well I certainly don't associate them with such. Maybe a few specific stations here or there with specific ties with reputable News Stations are.

 

[Madhuri]

My mistake then, the focus on the fetal component certainly made it seemed that was a main objection.

I really just wanted to keep the thread on topic instead of everyone getting into the typical arguments. A conversation around religious morals is a bit different and something new to me. That's why the thread is in the Comparative Religious forum, to get a religious discussion around this topic.

 

[Marisa]

There is that but I think a lot of people who are anti-vax have reached that stage through personal negative experience. That's why I'm sympathetic. If my kid had a bad reaction, I'd also freak out. But a lot of people don't try to understand both sides and weigh the matter rationally.

I disagree with you, much of the fear surrounding the vaccination issue is directed toward fear of Autism Spectrum. Consider: 2012 GOP Presidential primaries, candidate Michelle Bachman stands in front of a TV camera and says that she talked to a lady whose teenage daughter received the Guardasil vaccine and now has Autism. Jenny McCarthy, the movement's current spokesperson, has an autistic child. Medical science currently does not know what causes Autism Spectrum.

 

[Madhuri]

I disagree with you, much of the fear surrounding the vaccination issue is directed toward fear of Autism Spectrum. Consider: 2012 GOP Presidential primaries, candidate Michelle Bachman stands in front of a TV camera and says that she talked to a lady whose teenage daughter received the Guardasil vaccine and now has Autism. Jenny McCarthy, the movement's current spokesperson, has an autistic child. Medical science currently does not know what causes Autism Spectrum.

A big problem is that it's so convincing when you hear the arguments and a lot of people don't think to look up the opposing arguments. But then again, just because proper studies haven't been done doesn't mean there isn't a link. I know there must be a logical fallacy in that statements, but what I'm getting at is that people listen to each others' stories and find that convincing enough. Like parents who said their kid was developing normally, even starting to talk and then they got their vaccines and next thing they know, the kid isn't talking anymore, they scream all the time and then they find out the kid had autism. There are so many of these stories out there that people begin to feel there must be some truth to it.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Several kids got Meningococcal and went to various hospitals (I do think it was in fact considered a "rare" strain.) Most were toddlers if memory serves. Basically their bodies were literally rotting and many had to have amputations just to survive. I've seen the photos and yeah, I would gladly take the Vaccination over that particular illness, rare or not!!

Go to one of those parents and tell them the media "made a bigger deal out of those incidents" I double dog dare you, mate!

In order for the supposed "Pharma" thing to be true, it would have to be a global organized event.

That would have been Bacterial meningitis, which is a real killer that can leave those few that survive with severe life long problems. Though some only loses their arms, legs, noses or other extremities through gangrene. Most children are vaccinated against all the common strains in the UK. though incomers may not have had theirs in their own countries of birth.

Meningitis can spread rapidly though communities of children and young adults such a schools and universities. As it can kill within hours if not treated. prevention is very difficult amongst the unvaccinated.

Viral Meningitis is far less severe and usually only has cold or flue like symptoms,but which are still not good news for sickly children.