Vaccination and Religious Beliefs

[SomeRandom]

There is that but I think a lot of people who are anti-vax have reached that stage through personal negative experience. That's why I'm sympathetic. If my kid had a bad reaction, I'd also freak out. But a lot of people don't try to understand both sides and weigh the matter rationally.

Negative experiences do not equate to scientific evidence. Now yes, some children can potentially have a "negative" reaction to vaccination or appendectomies or anesthetic or even water. That's just a reality. Nothing, not even in Medical Science can ever be 100% foolproof. Due to differing chemical reactions one's body might have, you will always have some side effects of anything to do with medication. Fact of life.

I am sympathetic to those parents who experienced a negative reaction on the part of their kid/s and vaccines. That is unfortunate. I wish that upon no parent, ever. The thing is though Vaccination by it's very nature is one of those "for the greater good" things.

The only way to weigh on this particular matter rationally, is unfortunately to disregard (at least intellectually) those bad reactions. Because at the of the day the equation actually is one kid dying/having a bad reaction vs potentially thousands upon thousands of children dying or suffering horrifically from a completely preventable disease. Which one is more desirable?

 

[SomeRandom]

That would have been Bacterial meningitis, which is a real killer that can leave those few that survive with severe life long problems. Though some only loses their arms, legs, noses or other extremities through gangrene. Most children are vaccinated against all the common strains in the UK. though incomers may not have had theirs in their own countries of birth.

Meningitis can spread rapidly though communities of children and young adults such a schools and universities. As it can kill within hours if not treated. prevention is very difficult amongst the unvaccinated.

Viral Meningitis is far less severe and usually only has cold or flue like symptoms,but which are still not good news for sickly children.

Thank you for the information.

 

[Marisa]

A big problem is that it's so convincing when you hear the arguments and a lot of people don't think to look up the opposing arguments. But then again, just because proper studies haven't been done doesn't mean there isn't a link. I know there must be a logical fallacy in that statements, but what I'm getting at is that people listen to each others' stories and find that convincing enough. Like parents who said their kid was developing normally, even starting to talk and then they got their vaccines and next thing they know, the kid isn't talking anymore, they scream all the time and then they find out the kid had autism. There are so many of these stories out there that people begin to feel there must be some truth to it.

I'm not sure what you are saying. Plenty of studies have been done and to date, no link between Autism and vaccinations has been found.
CDC - Concerns About Autism - Vaccine Safety

The reason that anecdotal stories convince some people is precisely because we don't understand what causes Autism. It's a "god of the gaps" argument: science doesn't know, therefore vaccines.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

A big problem is that it's so convincing when you hear the arguments and a lot of people don't think to look up the opposing arguments. But then again, just because proper studies haven't been done doesn't mean there isn't a link. I know there must be a logical fallacy in that statements, but what I'm getting at is that people listen to each others' stories and find that convincing enough. Like parents who said their kid was developing normally, even starting to talk and then they got their vaccines and next thing they know, the kid isn't talking anymore, they scream all the time and then they find out the kid had autism. There are so many of these stories out there that people begin to feel there must be some truth to it.

The problem is, that Children are vaccinated about the same age as autism often become apparent. One can easily be erroneously blamed for the other, even though there is no connection.

 

[SomeRandom]

A big problem is that it's so convincing when you hear the arguments and a lot of people don't think to look up the opposing arguments. But then again, just because proper studies haven't been done doesn't mean there isn't a link. I know there must be a logical fallacy in that statements, but what I'm getting at is that people listen to each others' stories and find that convincing enough. Like parents who said their kid was developing normally, even starting to talk and then they got their vaccines and next thing they know, the kid isn't talking anymore, they scream all the time and then they find out the kid had autism. There are so many of these stories out there that people begin to feel there must be some truth to it.

Anecdotal evidence is not evidence. People who experience a negative thing, particularly with their children, will inevitable LOOK for something to blame. Then correlation suddenly becomes causation in their eyes. We have science now, so no reason to rely on mass hysteria anymore.

You see the signs that a child has autism only really start to become apparent at the age where they are commonly starting to be vaccinated. So by all accounts they develop normally before vaccination occurs. (Also many people with autism can talk properly!)
Now, even if vaccinations did cause autism, all that really tells me is that some parents are so flipping lazy and selfish that they would rather their child die from a preventable disease than the possibility of them having to raise a child with autism. I mean think about it, really. These parental objections based on the (unproven) link between Vaccination and autism seem to come down to a parent really being upset at the fact that they have to put in more effort to raise a kid with autism. Never mind that autism existed before Vaccinations were created (we just didn't have a name for it. But based on historical accounts of some people, you can definitely see the signs, so to speak.)

 

[Deidre]

I’d consider myself a pro-life atheist, but I don’t believe that abortion should be a government issue. It’s between a woman and her doc. Having said that, I have mixed feelings on an ethical level with taking aborted fetuses and using them to ‘help’ existing human life. It seems ethically disingenuous to me. But, I’m not strong on either side of the coin with this topic, but the ethical nature of it is concerning to me.

 

[LuisDantas]

There is that but I think a lot of people who are anti-vax have reached that stage through personal negative experience. That's why I'm sympathetic. If my kid had a bad reaction, I'd also freak out. But a lot of people don't try to understand both sides and weigh the matter rationally.

I was under the impression that those negative experiences were actually very rare.

I have been through a few dozen vaccines through my life. The whole of the downsides were some skin markings and a few instances of sore arms (in certain few vaccines, very few).

I don't think I ever heard of anyone I know personally having had a significant negative reaction to a vaccine. I would gradly be innoculated thrice as often if it were asked of me.

Although I will readily grant that I would hope it to be by needles, not jet injectors. People tell me injectors are painless. Someone forgot to tell that to those I suffered...

 

[Nietzsche]

I’d consider myself a pro-life atheist, but I don’t believe that abortion should be a government issue. It’s between a woman and her doc. Having said that, I have mixed feelings on an ethical level with taking aborted fetuses and using them to ‘help’ existing human life. It seems ethically disingenuous to me. But, I’m not strong on either side of the coin with this topic, but the ethical nature of it is concerning to me.

There is a woman in South Africa(I think it's South Africa, somewhere in the southern hemisphere I know that for sure) who was paralysed from the waist down due to a car accident. She now has feeling in her legs and is learning to walk again, all because of stem-cell research.

 

[Deidre]

There is a woman in South Africa(I think it's South Africa, somewhere in the southern hemisphere I know that for sure) who was paralysed from the waist down due to a car accident. She now has feeling in her legs and is learning to walk again, all because of stem-cell research.

While this is inspiring and encouraging, does this mean we value certain life over another?

Just seems that way.

 

[Nietzsche]

While this is inspiring and encouraging, does this mean we value certain life over another?

Just seems that way.

A fetus is only human from a biological standpoint. The most important factor in determining "value" is whether it is conscious or not. Fetuses most emphatically are not. No one (should) put the survival of a coma patient over that of someone who isn't.

 

[Deidre]

A fetus is only human from a biological standpoint. The most important factor in determining "value" is whether it is conscious or not. Fetuses most emphatically are not. No one (should) put the survival of a coma patient over that of someone who isn't.

But, like most things...I guess this is subjective. This is how you define things, but not everyone draws the line like this, when it comes to life/death/human ethical situations like these. Definitely a grey area for me.

 

[LuisDantas]

While this is inspiring and encouraging, does this mean we value certain life over another?

Just seems that way.

The origin of the fetuses must be considered, IMO. And voluntary abortions should IMO be discouraged, but not at any cost. Adoptions, not forbiddance, are the alternative.

 

[Deidre]

The origin of the fetuses must be considered, IMO. And voluntary abortions should IMO be discouraged, but not at any cost. Adoptions, not forbiddance, are the alternative.

agree, but I don't feel that it's 'right' to push my personal views as it relates to being pro life on others. (I know you probably feel the same, I'm guessing...I'm just making that statement.)

 

[Nietzsche]

But, like most things...I guess this is subjective. This is how you define things, but not everyone draws the line like this, when it comes to life/death/human ethical situations like these. Definitely a grey area for me.

There are countless individuals who need organs, who will die without having them. What is moral about keeping a vegetable alive but letting someones' brother, mother or friend die because they couldn't take the needed organ from the guy in a coma?

 

[Deidre]

There are countless individuals who need organs, who will die without having them. What is moral about keeping a vegetable alive but letting someones' brother, mother or friend die because they couldn't take the needed organ from the guy in a coma?

Many people do come out of comas and go on to lead productive lives, yanno.

Only if the person has a living will, and/or has elected loved ones to make such decisions, should life/death situations be made...you and I nor doctors nor the government, etc...should be making the decision as to who gets to live, and who doesn't.

I think we're straying from the OT. :/

 

[LuisDantas]

agree, but I don't feel that it's 'right' to push my personal views as it relates to being pro life on others. (I know you probably feel the same, I'm guessing...I'm just making that statement.)

To a degree, that helps in solving the dilemma. We can't morally decide that a woman must go through the birth of a child she does not feel up to raising. And we can't IMO morally justify refusing to use stem cells from fetuses whose abortions we did not encourage.

Abortions do happen involuntarily, for instance.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Sorry, but I cannot let ignorant, dangerous rubbish like that pass uncommented.

It couldn't just be the FDA in the US - do you really think that there's a conspiracy within the entire health profession around the whole world pretending that vaccinations work? You may not trust your own FDA, but for that conspiracy to work, it would need to be pretty much every single doctor: are you telling me that all doctors all over the world are lying to us? Why would they? What possible motivation could there be for health professionals to issue vaccines that cause more adverse effects than they cure, not just in the US but *everywhere*?

The research showing autism cannot be related to vaccination comes from many different countries, from governmental, academic and corporate research groups. It simply is not a credible position to hold.

Well, one possible motivation is money. For example: Contaminated haemophilia blood products - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not saying that vaccines are part of a conspiracy, but I'm not saying they aren't, either. My mind hasn't been made up either way. I don't have much of a reason to trust the government or pharmaceutical corporations, though.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

At this point, I doubt it matters much if you're personally for or against vaccination because if you don't get your kid vaccinated, they can't go to school. So you're forced to do it, either way.

 

[Riverwolf]

Hi everyone,
it's recently come to my attention that a number of common vaccinations contain cells from aborted fetuses. But I'm also aware that most people, including religious people, get vaccinated. I have a Christin friend who is a Pharmacist and who is anti-vax specifically because of this ingredient. But how common is it for religious people who are against abortion to get themselves and their children vaccinated?

Are you one of these people or are you a religious person who avoids vaccination for religious reasons?

Nope. I've been vaccinated, and when I have children, have every intention of vaccinating them.

I'm also fully in favor of mandatory vaccination. Yes, there are religious rights to consider, but human sacrifice isn't protected by those rights. So there are already certain limitations.

 

[SomeRandom]

At this point, I doubt it matters much if you're personally for or against vaccination because if you don't get your kid vaccinated, they can't go to school. So you're forced to do it, either way.

You could homeschool or find someone to homeschool your kid.

The way I see it, if a kid gives the measles to other kids because their parents "chose" not to vaccinate then that child has cost others valuable time and put children behind the curriculum. Thus we cannot allow that to happen if we can help it.