Vaccination and Religious Beliefs

[Shadow Wolf]

Here's one for consideration: doctors are being able to better diagnose autism, even before the child is old enough for the vaccines. Where does your "vaccines cause autism" fit in with that?

 

[McBell]

I will never apologies to you, you don't deserve it, you are against just about everything.

Never expected any apology from you.
Your ego won't allow it.

However, it is nice that you have established yourself a liar.

 

[philbo]

Families are fine before they take it. They get sick after they take it. Let's put two and two together. It's not that difficult to understand. It's incredibly rude that when they try to present evidence, you get people, who think they know what they're talking about, calling others liars. Not every drug was successfully tested, what makes you think that all of the vaccines are actually tested. Some aren't and cause more harm.

When you're vaccinating millions of people, some adverse events will happen at approximately the same time as the vaccinations - oddly enough, the same things happen to people who aren't vaccinated but without the "this happened at the same time, so it must have caused it" reaction. It is only by comparing the two sets of data it is possible to assert that there is even a correlation.let alone working out whether the vaccine is the cause.

In many studies now, looking at hundreds of thousands, if not millions of children, (nearly) the same proportion of children are diagnosed with autism who are vaccinated and who aren't.. There is no conceivable way vaccines can cause autism without it showing in studies of this scale.

As for not testing vaccines...Not every drug in the past has been properly tested, yet the testing and reporting mechanisms are in place: if any drugs, especially vaccines, are causing harm it will show up very quickly indeed. That's what VAERS is for, after all, to make sure that these events do not get missed.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

I'm just saying it's happened and it's more common than people might think. Do all vaccines do it? No, but it also depends on who's doing the data testing...The data may say something is rare, but in reality it's more common. I know it's happened because I personally know those who were vaccinated with certain vaccines and have suffered side effects from it. But I guess some people like to think I imagined that and it's all in my head...

 

[philbo]

I'm just saying it's happened and it's more common than people might think. Do all vaccines do it? No, but it also depends on who's doing the data testing...The data may say something is rare, but in reality it's more common. I know it's happened because I personally know those who were vaccinated with certain vaccines and have suffered side effects from it. But I guess some people like to think I imagined that and it's all in my head...

Sorry, but no, it doesn't depend on who's doing the data testing. The whole "it's more common than people might think" cannot be uncovered by youtube videos, or lots of stories on the internet (that's what I mean by "the plural of anecdote is not data"). The only way to find out if it is more common than people might think is to do studies of vaccinated populations and compare them with equivalent unvaccinated ones (be it contemporary or historical).

Many studies of this kind have been done and they simply do not show the sort of harmful link you claim exists. I am not saying that the harm that has been suffered is imaginary or all in your head, but the link you are claiming is.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Families are fine before they take it. They get sick after they take it. Let's put two and two together. It's not that difficult to understand. It's incredibly rude that when they try to present evidence, you get people, who think they know what they're talking about, calling others liars.

I don't think people are saying they're liars, just that they are misguided. As mentioned earlier in the thread, human beings have a tendency to find causal relationships where they don't actually exist. The example I used earlier in the thread was one where my mother ate a chicken dinner at a restaurant, then hours later her appendix burst. She is now completely averse to eating at that restaurant because she associates it with her appendicitis. She was fine before she ate at that restaurant, and then got sick after. Of course, that doesn't mean chicken dinners at that restaurant cause appendicitis, right?

As for the supposed MMR/autism link as another example, the age of onset for autism is between 18-30 months of age which just so happens to coincide with the time the MMR vaccine is given to children. So the kids were fine before, and sometime after being vaccinated were diagnosed with autism simply because that is the age where symptoms of autism begin to exhibit themselves.

This is why empirical scientific study is far more informative and accurate than anecdotal stories.

Not every drug was successfully tested, what makes you think that all of the vaccines are actually tested. Some aren't and cause more harm.

What makes you think vaccines aren't actually tested? I mean, you made the claim earlier about Gardasil and lo and behold, it was actually tested on close to 1 million females.

 

[psychoslice]

You claim we're full of crap, but that is not how it is from my point of view.
You said "tell that to the parents of a kid who is autistic," or something to that extent, but, me, being on the high-functioning spectrum of autism, previously Asperger's before the DSM V, I am driven to facts, logic, and empirical data like a moth to the flames. No, I'm not perfect. But you sources are not holding up. You claim autism is caused by vaccines, yet, at the same time, I have read books by doctors, who specialize in autism and Asperger's, who seem to know a very great deal about me without even knowing I exist, and they do not state that vaccines cause Autism. Your sources, on the other hand, started with a guy who flat out lied. You entire case that autism causes vaccines is based on a lie. He did no research, he gathered no empirical data, he put in such a crappy effort that he lost his license to practice.
Now, think this through logically. Your sources claim polio was "on its way out," despite the fact the only places that have problems with polio are places that are not using the polio vaccine. Your sources say their are tremendous risks, but these sources do not appear credible (yes, there is a way to objectively evaluate online source. Its not 100, but Snopes is academically credible even though it doesn't appear to be at first glance, but you have turned up sources that have, at best, had imposter look-alike sources).
If the vaccines compromise the immune system, why are more people not sick? If the vaccines contain lethal metals in them, why are people not displaying symptoms of mercury poisoning? If they are such a great risk, why do so very few display any signs of an allergic reaction?

In case you don't realize, childhood diseases have risen higher than ever, cancer, autism, diabetes, and on and on it goes, why ?, because of heavy handed vaccination, forget about the data and use your own brain that you were born with.

 

[psychoslice]

Why, because I would rather trust evidence than feelings?

I'm sure it feels better to be ruled by ones heart and believing whatever makes you feel good, but using your brain means there's actually a chance of getting solutions that work. Such as vaccines: you really do have to be either mindbogglingly ignorant or functionally innumerate to think that vaccines don't prevent the diseases they're designed to.

And as for harm... Tell me, if you really believe vaccines cause autism, what do you think causes it in the equal proportion of people who are diagnosed with autism without being vaccinated?

Its not feeling, these are parents who had a healthy child one day and after the vaccine, a very unhealthy child, all these people cannot be just a coincidence, no way at all.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

It is true that cancer and autism has risen in more recent years. Even 60 years ago, cancer was actually kind of rare especially in children but now it's way more common.

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi everyone,
it's recently come to my attention that a number of common vaccinations contain cells from aborted fetuses. But I'm also aware that most people, including religious people, get vaccinated. I have a Christin friend who is a Pharmacist and who is anti-vax specifically because of this ingredient. But how common is it for religious people who are against abortion to get themselves and their children vaccinated?

Are you one of these people or are you a religious person who avoids vaccination for religious reasons?

Vaccination is a medicine. Truthful Religion encourages treatment of diseases and taking preventive measures against them.

Regards

 

[SkepticThinker]

In case you don't realize, childhood diseases have risen higher than ever, cancer, autism, diabetes, and on and on it goes, why ?, because of heavy handed vaccination, forget about the data and use your own brain that you were born with.

Another unsubstantiated claim.

Boy, you're full of them, aren't you?

 

[psychoslice]

Another unsubstantiated claim.

Boy, you're full of them, aren't you?

Its just that you don't want to admit it. your too proud to admit that they can cause problems.

 

[McBell]

Another unsubstantiated claim.

Boy, you're full of them, aren't you?

well, full of something anyway....

 

[SkepticThinker]

Its just that you don't want to admit it. your too proud to admit that they can cause problems.

Nah, I just have a problem with people presenting unsubstantiated claims as facts.

 

[psychoslice]

Nah, I just have a problem with people presenting unsubstantiated claims as facts.

But that is just what you have been doing, your claims come strait from the very ones who manipulate and what you to believe what they tell you, after all if they were found out there would be hell to play.

 

[McBell]

But that is just what you have been doing, your claims come strait from the very ones who manipulate and what you to believe what they tell you, after all if they were found out there would be hell to play.

yet another bold empty claim.
One that you have repeatedly failed to support with anything other than alternative medicine links.

BTW
You know what they call alternate medicine that works?

 

[Deidre]

41 pages???!! lol

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Have cancer rates really went up, or do we just have so many more people that we hear about it more frequently?
Is the number of cases of autism increasing, or have doctors gotten better at diagnosing it?
If you think you have a solid answer, you are taking a leap that many who study such things are not willing to take.

 

[psychoslice]

yet another bold empty claim.
One that you have repeatedly failed to support with anything other than alternative medicine links.

BTW
You know what they call alternate medicine that works?

So you believe that alternative can work ?......anyway, its sill carrying on about this, we will just have to wait and see what happens in the near future, there is going to be a lot of words to swallow and I know it wont be me lol.

 

[McBell]

So you believe that alternative can work ?......anyway, its sill carrying on about this, we will just have to wait and see what happens in the near future, there is going to be a lot of words to swallow and I know it wont be me lol.

Still waiting for you to present something in support of your claimed genocide from vaccines.