Verifiable evidence for creationism?

[SkepticThinker]

It depends on the bird. What knowledge do you have to say the things you believe ravens will return to their point of origin if they cannot find land? Are you saying they can't swim if they can't find flotsam to rest on? I'm not sure what ways animals, birds in this case, use to navigate, but here are some: topographic, celestial, magnetic, olfactory and memory (being familiar).

This is interesting in that this is evidence of God.

How is that evidence of god?

 

[james bond]

How is that evidence of god?

From gotquestions.org, God advised Noah to release the raven before the dove. Most people would release the dove first I suppose. Since the raven didn't return, it was safe to release the dove.

 

[SkepticThinker]

From gotquestions.org, God advised Noah to release the raven before the dove. Most people would release the dove first I suppose. Since the raven didn't return, it was safe to release the dove.

How is that evidence of god?

 

[james bond]

How is that evidence of god?

Not god, but God ha ha. It's evidence because God advises me well. If I let the dove out first and it does not return, then I think there is no land or something happened to the dove. If I let the raven out first, then it not returning lets me know that it is okay to release the dove. Should the raven return, not likely because it does not have a homing instinct, then I wait to release the raven again. The raven returning would mean it returned to survive and no land. This is after 40 days and 40 nights of storm. Also, the raven has better survival instincts than the dove so it would not die living on the sea.

 

[Tiberius]

It depends on the bird. What knowledge do you have to say the things you believe ravens will return to their point of origin if they cannot find land?

The fact that Raven's, like any other creature, will get tired and will want to stop to have a rest.

Are you saying they can't swim if they can't find flotsam to rest on?

Look how well this crow does in the water.

So, I think it's fairly obvious that if a raven (closely related to crows) wants to stop flying and rest, it is not going to just settle down in the water like a duck or gull would. Because it would drown.

I'm not sure what ways animals, birds in this case, use to navigate, but here are some: topographic, celestial, magnetic, olfactory and memory (being familiar).

Yes, birds can navigate with magnetic fields, but a compass isn't really going to help if the entire world is covered in water and the only place to rest without drowning is a moving boat.

If I dropped you in the ocean with a compass and told you to find a nearby ocean liner, could you do it?

This is interesting in that this is evidence of God.

No, this is not evidence of God.

It is evidence that a raven will get tired after it has been flying for a long time, and it will want to rest. And as we saw from that video, a raven needs a solid surface to rest on. If the only thing it can find is a boat, it will go there. It does not need a homing instinct to do so. It requires only the "I'm tired and about to fall out of the sky" instinct as well as the "I don't want to drown" instinct.

 

[Tiberius]

I'm using gotquestions.org, the Bible, reasoning and that youtube to back my statements up. It seems all you're using is your logic and intuition which is probably wrong. Just sayin'.

If you are telling me a story about your friend, then yes, it is an anecdote.

Gotquestions.org is a biased source, since they start with the assumption that the Bible is correct. The Bible is not a good source because there is a lot in there that cannot be verified. And any idiot can post a video to YouTube.

I, however, prefer to use reality as a basis for my position, since it is quite reasonable to conclude that reality is not wrong.

 

[james bond]

The fact that Raven's, like any other creature, will get tired and will want to stop to have a rest.



Look how well this crow does in the water.

So, I think it's fairly obvious that if a raven (closely related to crows) wants to stop flying and rest, it is not going to just settle down in the water like a duck or gull would. Because it would drown.



Yes, birds can navigate with magnetic fields, but a compass isn't really going to help if the entire world is covered in water and the only place to rest without drowning is a moving boat.

If I dropped you in the ocean with a compass and told you to find a nearby ocean liner, could you do it?



No, this is not evidence of God.

It is evidence that a raven will get tired after it has been flying for a long time, and it will want to rest. And as we saw from that video, a raven needs a solid surface to rest on. If the only thing it can find is a boat, it will go there. It does not need a homing instinct to do so. It requires only the "I'm tired and about to fall out of the sky" instinct as well as the "I don't want to drown" instinct.

C'mon. I thought atheists were suppose to understand evolution and be able to tell the difference between a raven and crow. To compare a child crow that fell into the water to what an adult raven can do is ridiculous.

The raven is much different from a crow in size and strength. The adult raven will be able to survive because of their intelligence and ability to soar. It does migrate long distances during the winter with its ability to soar and navigate the winds. Thus, it can survive without land. It is the way God designed it and that is the evidence of his wisdom. Just look at the raven's ability and what it can do. They do live by the sea or ocean.

The proof to make your faulty assumptions wilt is the Vikings used the raven to find land -- Vikings used ravens to navigate. They brought... . They let it go and followed the direction where it went.

This adds to our knowledge now as Noah would've followed in the direction the raven went. Maybe the crow is one of those pest birds after all and can be gotten rid of ha ha?

>>I, however, prefer to use reality as a basis for my position, since it is quite reasonable to conclude that reality is not wrong.<<

Yeah, I would love to see how your reality does as you'll probably release a crow not knowing the difference and it dies in the water ha ha.

 

[james bond]

Here is another evidence for God. This time it comes in the form of a song.

The lyrics explain it all.

Disturbed - The Sound Of Silence Lyrics | MetroLyrics

 

[gnostic]

Here is another evidence for God. This time it comes in the form of a song.

The lyrics explain it all.

Disturbed - The Sound Of Silence Lyrics | MetroLyrics

First you bring up My Sweet Lord, by George Harrison, which you thought was about Jesus. You thought that song was evidence for God.

But it wasn't about Christ. It is not even about Christian god.

And worse of all, you refused to admit you were mistaken about Harrison's song and belief.

And now you want to post up another song.

A lyric to a song, isn't evidence for a god, no matter where the inspiration come from. And this song (Disturbed's) is not even an original; it is a cover song from Simon & Garfunkel.

But the real question: Does this latest claim of yours, address the "verifiable evidences" for creationism?

I would say "No".

So how many stupid songs you are going to post up? The first one was already "one, too many".

 

[Tiberius]

C'mon. I thought atheists were suppose to understand evolution and be able to tell the difference between a raven and crow. To compare a child crow that fell into the water to what an adult raven can do is ridiculous.

Actually, there is no clear cut distinction between a crow and a raven. Both are species of the Corvus family, with ravens generally being larger. Raven - Wikipedia

The raven is much different from a crow in size and strength.The adult raven will be able to survive because of their intelligence and ability to soar. It does migrate long distances during the winter with its ability to soar and navigate the winds. Thus, it can survive without land. It is the way God designed it and that is the evidence of his wisdom. Just look at the raven's ability and what it can do. They do live by the sea or ocean.

Irrelevant. I am asking you to show that the ravens would have needed a homing instinct to return to the ark.

The proof to make your faulty assumptions wilt is the Vikings used the raven to find land -- Vikings used ravens to navigate. They brought... . They let it go and followed the direction where it went.

So the ravens wanted to return to land! They didn't want to stay at sea!

So if the entire world really was covered, the Raven, looking for land, would find nothing but water and an ark. Now, why do ravens look for land? Maybe because they are not seabirds? And so, if the Raven never returned, maybe that meant he found land, and the flood was not as total as it seemed!

This adds to our knowledge now as Noah would've followed in the direction the raven went. Maybe the crow is one of those pest birds after all and can be gotten rid of ha ha?

I'm sorry, what part of the Bible does it say that? Or are you just guessing?

Yeah, I would love to see how your reality does as you'll probably release a crow not knowing the difference and it dies in the water ha ha.

Wow, aren't you just such a pleasure to talk to?

 

[Tiberius]

Here is another evidence for God. This time it comes in the form of a song.

The lyrics explain it all.

Disturbed - The Sound Of Silence Lyrics | MetroLyrics

In what way is this song evidence for God?

I mean, really? A song? Please. That's a lousy argument.

 

[gnostic]

In what way is this song evidence for God?

I mean, really? A song? Please. That's a lousy argument.

He thought that George Harrison's My Sweet Lord was about Jesus or God.

Not only is he listing them as evidences for God, but also not listening and not paying attention to the lyrics, which are contrary to his claims.

Evidence for Jesus? Any good songs that promote boring atheism?

 

[james bond]

Actually, there is no clear cut distinction between a crow and a raven. Both are species of the Corvus family, with ravens generally being larger. Raven - Wikipedia



Irrelevant. I am asking you to show that the ravens would have needed a homing instinct to return to the ark.



So the ravens wanted to return to land! They didn't want to stay at sea!

So if the entire world really was covered, the Raven, looking for land, would find nothing but water and an ark. Now, why do ravens look for land? Maybe because they are not seabirds? And so, if the Raven never returned, maybe that meant he found land, and the flood was not as total as it seemed!



I'm sorry, what part of the Bible does it say that? Or are you just guessing?



Wow, aren't you just such a pleasure to talk to?

Again, you're showing your atheist-evolution ignorance. I just went over what a raven can do and the difference. All you posted was a child crow that fell in the water of what appeared to be a zoo exhibit. How is that even relevant to the discussion?

Noah (taking God's advice) did not plan for the raven to return. We know now that he released it first to determine which way to sail. All of this is something we learned while discussing this topic. Thus, the raven has some instinct to find land and not a homing instinct. The dove has that.

Yes. This demonstrates God's wisdom and love for us. Maybe the Vikings learned from what Noah taught when he told his tale of the Flood.

Guessing? Don't be such a negative Nellie. "In Genesis 8:6-7 we read, “At the end of forty days Noah opened the window of the ark that he had made and sent forth a raven. It went to and fro until the waters were dried up from the earth.” The “40 days” here is after the tops of the mountains were visible (verse 5), over seven months after the flood began. A raven was released and apparently never returned. No reason is provided regarding why a raven was selected rather than another bird. However, raven can eat carrion and would feed off dead animals in the water. A dove, on the other hand, would return to its point of origin if no land was found.

Noah sent a dove in Genesis 8:8-9: “Then he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters had subsided from the face of the ground. But the dove found no place to set her foot, and she returned to him to the ark, for the waters were still on the face of the whole earth. So he put out his hand and took her and brought her into the ark with him.” The dove returned with no indication that a place had been found to alight.

A week later, in Genesis 8:10-11, Noah sent the dove again: “He waited another seven days, and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark. And the dove came back to him in the evening, and behold, in her mouth was a freshly plucked olive leaf. So Noah knew that the waters had subsided from the earth.” Things had begun to grow once again; the earth was becoming more habitable.

Another week passed. Then, in Genesis 8:12, Noah sends out the dove one more time: “Then he waited another seven days and sent forth the dove, and she did not return to him anymore.” The dove had no need to return to the ark, since it had found a home on land. The ark could soon be emptied, and humanity could begin to establish itself again in the world.

From Genesis 7:11 to 8:14, we know that the flood lasted a total of one year and ten days. The raven and the dove were released over a period of 21 days after the mountaintops became visible (Genesis 8:10-12). The raven served as a first attempt to discover dry land, and the dove became Noah’s way of determining when to leave the ark."

I have to laugh because all the evidence you needed to confirm your atheist faith and disavow God's existence and love for us was the crow and bear video.

 

[james bond]

In what way is this song evidence for God?

I mean, really? A song? Please. That's a lousy argument.

I didn't intend my post for an atheist or non-believer audience, but for Christians and believers to possibly look at an old song differently just like Disturbed, a metal band that would consider doing such a song.

I learned something new from a review of this song. Previously, I thought it was an anti-war, anti-government song and about people's apathy in reaction. The review is from Eric J French who writes:

"I haven't seen any interviews with Paul Simon but I am a good reader of character. He strikes me as a very deep thinker and I'll bet he is well versed in what is in the Old Testament. Therefore, he would surely know many of the stories and their meaning. We have so very many saying today from the Bible and Simon uses them in this song and his other songs as well. "the words of the prophets are written on the subway walls" is not a line pulled from nowhere...it's straight from the Bible, book of Daniel, chapter 5, where a mysterious hand writes out warnings of doom.

The song is about people turing away from God and worshiping false idols...in the Bible it was the golden calf or baal, sexual depravity, these days it's money, drugs, greed, work, sexual depravity...hmmm pretty much the same thing, anything that takes us further from God.

Silence is one of the stages when any society turns away from God. Read the book of Judges in the Bible. The people stop teaching their children about God and become "silent". Once silence becomes embedded in society, political correctness ensues, and it becomes almost impossible for the "prophets" to tell the truth to the people. Many won't listen at all, some will listen but not "hear". So the prophets send their messages anyway they can. Subway walls, tenement halls are simply metaphors for blogs, tweets, any place where the truth can be told.

This song was written in the early 60's (I know, released in '65, but surely Simon wrote it prior to '65) and his message was about Viet Nam, the establishment, and heavy handed tyrannical government. The genius of Simon is that this song is just as powerful today, if not more so. Indeed, this song is less about events of a particular era and more about human nature itself, and so becomes timeless."

Simon & Garfunkel - The Sound of Silence Lyrics Meaning

 

[gnostic]

I didn't intend my post for an atheist or non-believer audience, but for Christians and believers to possibly look at an old song differently just like Disturbed, a metal band that would consider doing such a song.

I learned something new from a review of this song. Previously, I thought it was an anti-war, anti-government song and about people's apathy in reaction. The review is from Eric J French who writes:

"I haven't seen any interviews with Paul Simon but I am a good reader of character. He strikes me as a very deep thinker and I'll bet he is well versed in what is in the Old Testament. Therefore, he would surely know many of the stories and their meaning. We have so very many saying today from the Bible and Simon uses them in this song and his other songs as well. "the words of the prophets are written on the subway walls" is not a line pulled from nowhere...it's straight from the Bible, book of Daniel, chapter 5, where a mysterious hand writes out warnings of doom.

The song is about people turing away from God and worshiping false idols...in the Bible it was the golden calf or baal, sexual depravity, these days it's money, drugs, greed, work, sexual depravity...hmmm pretty much the same thing, anything that takes us further from God.

Silence is one of the stages when any society turns away from God. Read the book of Judges in the Bible. The people stop teaching their children about God and become "silent". Once silence becomes embedded in society, political correctness ensues, and it becomes almost impossible for the "prophets" to tell the truth to the people. Many won't listen at all, some will listen but not "hear". So the prophets send their messages anyway they can. Subway walls, tenement halls are simply metaphors for blogs, tweets, any place where the truth can be told.

This song was written in the early 60's (I know, released in '65, but surely Simon wrote it prior to '65) and his message was about Viet Nam, the establishment, and heavy handed tyrannical government. The genius of Simon is that this song is just as powerful today, if not more so. Indeed, this song is less about events of a particular era and more about human nature itself, and so becomes timeless."

Simon & Garfunkel - The Sound of Silence Lyrics Meaning

You are basing your so-called "evidence" for god on a music-singer reviewer?

You do realise that this review you have quoted from Eric French, is merely his interpretations of the lyric meaning, therefore it is just his personal opinion on what the song mean.

No, it isn't even the meaning of the song, it is just a interpretation of a snippet of one small part of the verse, ignoring the rest of the lyrics.

And French's review doesn't mean he is an authority to Paul Simon's lyrics. It is just one wacko opinion of one man.

Any idiot can give a review to any song. And I would call such a review as "evidence".

"Evidence", my a###!

Are you truly that desperate that you have to find "evidence" from lyrics to songs?

 

[McBell]

I didn't intend my post for an atheist or non-believer audience, but for Christians and believers to possibly look at an old song differently just like Disturbed, a metal band that would consider doing such a song.

I learned something new from a review of this song. Previously, I thought it was an anti-war, anti-government song and about people's apathy in reaction. The review is from Eric J French who writes:

"I haven't seen any interviews with Paul Simon but I am a good reader of character. He strikes me as a very deep thinker and I'll bet he is well versed in what is in the Old Testament. Therefore, he would surely know many of the stories and their meaning. We have so very many saying today from the Bible and Simon uses them in this song and his other songs as well. "the words of the prophets are written on the subway walls" is not a line pulled from nowhere...it's straight from the Bible, book of Daniel, chapter 5, where a mysterious hand writes out warnings of doom.

The song is about people turing away from God and worshiping false idols...in the Bible it was the golden calf or baal, sexual depravity, these days it's money, drugs, greed, work, sexual depravity...hmmm pretty much the same thing, anything that takes us further from God.

Silence is one of the stages when any society turns away from God. Read the book of Judges in the Bible. The people stop teaching their children about God and become "silent". Once silence becomes embedded in society, political correctness ensues, and it becomes almost impossible for the "prophets" to tell the truth to the people. Many won't listen at all, some will listen but not "hear". So the prophets send their messages anyway they can. Subway walls, tenement halls are simply metaphors for blogs, tweets, any place where the truth can be told.

This song was written in the early 60's (I know, released in '65, but surely Simon wrote it prior to '65) and his message was about Viet Nam, the establishment, and heavy handed tyrannical government. The genius of Simon is that this song is just as powerful today, if not more so. Indeed, this song is less about events of a particular era and more about human nature itself, and so becomes timeless."

Simon & Garfunkel - The Sound of Silence Lyrics Meaning

You can find people who make claims of the Bible and god in all manner of things.
Here is someone who claims the Zelda video games are about god, Bible, etc.
The Legend of Zelda and the Bible Part 1: The Legend of Zelda

You can find pages about how Star Wars is about the Bible and god...
Both for an against

Not to mention the smurfs, spongebob, etc.

It is truly remarkable how well versed in the Forer Effect some people are.

 

[james bond]

You can find people who make claims of the Bible and god in all manner of things.
Here is someone who claims the Zelda video games are about god, Bible, etc.
The Legend of Zelda and the Bible Part 1: The Legend of Zelda

You can find pages about how Star Wars is about the Bible and god...
Both for an against

Not to mention the smurfs, spongebob, etc.

It is truly remarkable how well versed in the Forer Effect some people are.

I first thought, finally, not a complaint unless you're complaining about the people who make claims of the Bible.

I can't even begin to guess what these people think.

 

[Shad]

Not god, but God ha ha. It's evidence because God advises me well. If I let the dove out first and it does not return, then I think there is no land or something happened to the dove. If I let the raven out first, then it not returning lets me know that it is okay to release the dove. Should the raven return, not likely because it does not have a homing instinct, then I wait to release the raven again. The raven returning would mean it returned to survive and no land. This is after 40 days and 40 nights of storm. Also, the raven has better survival instincts than the dove so it would not die living on the sea.

Merely repeating the Epic of Gilgamesh

 

[McBell]

I first thought, finally, not a complaint unless you're complaining about the people who make claims of the Bible.

I can't even begin to guess what these people think.

I am merely pointing out that people will see what they want in things.
If you want to see god in everything, you will.
It matters not if god is in it.

 

[james bond]

I am merely pointing out that people will see what they want in things.
If you want to see god in everything, you will.
It matters not if god is in it.

Ah, finally a point. Wrong, but you still made a point.

That said, I do agree people will see what they want to see and will hear what they want to hear, but the truth will set you free and will be seen and heard after death -- heaven, earth and hell. This life can't be all there is, is it, Mr. Materialist?