Verifiable evidence for creationism?

[Sapiens]

This life can't be all there is, is it?

Yes, it is. Neither you (nor anyone else) have presented anything besides warmed over Aesop's Fables to suggest otherwise.

 

[james bond]

Yes, it is. Neither you (nor anyone else) have presented anything besides warmed over Aesop's Fables to suggest otherwise.

Then why do we have near-death experiences and consciousness living on after death? Why can't non-believers disprove the Resurrection? We all will be resurrected to our final destination.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Then why do we have near-death experiences

Near-Death Experiences Explained by Science

and consciousness living on after death?

There isn't.

Why can't non-believers disprove the Resurrection?

Because it hasn't been proven? There isn't a need to refute something that doesn't have any evidence. I also don't refute invisible unicorns or dragons.

We all will be resurrected to our final destination.

Based on what evidence?

 

[james bond]

Near-Death Experiences Explained by Science

There isn't. Because it hasn't been proven? There isn't a need to refute something that doesn't have any evidence. I also don't refute invisible unicorns or dragons. Based on what evidence?

A live science article is casual reading. Not good enough nor complete. More fodder for atheists to support their beliefs.

Here are some I looked at while investigating NDE.

University of Southampton in UK had most studies. It's a good place to start
World's largest near death experiences study | University of Southampton

Sam Parnia Univ. of Southampton
Are near-death experiences real? New study investigates

Melvin Morse
Dr. Melvin Morse's Near-Death Experience Research

Mike Pettigrew
The Institute for Afterlife Research - Dutch Study

Stanford University associate professor
http://news.stanford.edu/news/2012/october/near-death-experience-103012.html

Then I went to the NDE websites.
IANDS - the most reliable source of information on NDEs

Near-Death Experiences and the Afterlife

Characteristics of Near-Death Experiences Memories as Compared to Real and Imagined Events Memories

Kevin Williams. This guy has changed his website. Before it was a collection of people's NDE. He's had an ephiphany.
About Kevin Williams and This Website

I looked at opposing liberal views, too.

Reddit
Near Death Experience • /r/NDE

HuffPo
Near Death Experiences

Quora
https://www.quora.com/What-happens-to-human-consciousness-after-death

Consciousness and Neurology
Psychology Today
The Neurology Of Near-Death Experiences

Doctors define consciousness
Disorders of Consciousness: Brain Death, Coma, and the Vegetative and Minimally Conscious States

And you're wrong about the Resurrection. It has been proven by historical documentation. Again, atheists are usually wrong.

LMGTFY

Final answer is the Bible which you haven't read. It's the best selling non-fiction book in the world. And I doubt you'll read any of the links in depth above.

So, I think we're done ha ha.

 

[McBell]

This life can't be all there is, is it, Mr. Materialist?

why not?
I mean, all you have offered is nothing more than feel good claims and beliefs.

 

[McBell]

Why can't non-believers disprove the Resurrection?

The burden of proof is on the ones making the claim.
You claim resurrection.
Until you can evidence it, there is no reason to believe it.
It not on me to disprove every claim presented.
It is on the ones making the claims to prove their claims.

Nice try at shifting the burden, but it doe snot work that way.

 

[McBell]

And you're wrong about the Resurrection. It has been proven by historical documentation.

Bold empty claim.

Care to support it with something other than more bold empty claims?

 

[james bond]

why not?
I mean, all you have offered is nothing more than feel good claims and beliefs.

Life is too short and many people, if not all, believe in both truth and justice. That is why there is a intuitive feeling we have for both. God is like us, so there shall be final judgment. The signs are there for that instead of this life is all there is. I would agree with you if there was no resurrection (that which separate Christianity from the other Abrahamic and religions).

The burden of proof is on the ones making the claim.
You claim resurrection.
Until you can evidence it, there is no reason to believe it.
It not on me to disprove every claim presented.
It is on the ones making the claims to prove their claims.

Nice try at shifting the burden, but it doe snot work that way.

"Facts are stubborn things." - Bernard Mandeville

There is evidence besides the Bible. See my thread Jesus' Tomb Opened for First Time in Centuries and refer to #7 for one. There is the Shroud of Turin. Listen to the professors, too -- Evidence for the Resurrection .

"E. M. Blaiklock
Professor of Classics
Auckland University

BACKGROUND
The New Testament witnesses were fully aware of the background against which the resurrection took place. The body of Jesus, in accordance with Jewish burial custom, was wrapped in a linen cloth. About 100 pounds of aromatic spices, mixed together to form a gummy substance, were applied to the wrappings of cloth about the body. After the body was placed in a solid rock tomb, an extremely large stone was rolled against the entrance of the tomb. Large stones weighing approximately two tons were normally rolled (by means of levers) against a tomb entrance.

A Roman guard of strictly disciplined fighting men was stationed to guard the tomb. This guard affixed on the tomb the Roman seal, which was meant to "prevent any attempt at vandalizing the sepulcher. Anyone trying to move the stone from the tomb's entrance would have broken the seal and thus incurred the wrath of Roman law.

But three days later the tomb was empty. The followers of Jesus said He had risen from the dead. They reported that He appeared to them during a period of 40 days, showing Himself to them by many "infallible proofs." Paul the apostle recounted that Jesus appeared to more than 500 of His followers at one time, the majority of whom were still alive and who could confirm what Paul wrote. So many security precautions were taken with the trial, crucifixion, burial, entombment, sealing, and guarding of Christ's tomb that it becomes very difficult for critics to defend their position that Christ did not rise from the dead. Consider these facts:

• 
  FACT #1: BROKEN ROMAN SEAL
  As we have said, the first obvious fact was the breaking of the seal that stood for the power and authority of the Roman Empire. The consequences of breaking the seal were extremely severe. The FBI and CIA of the Roman Empire were called into action to find the man or men who were responsible. If they were apprehended, it meant automatic execution by crucifixion upside down. People feared the breaking of the seal. Jesus' disciples displayed signs of cowardice when they hid themselves. Peter, one of these disciples, went out and denied Christ three times.
  
  FACT #2: EMPTY TOMB
  As we have already discussed, another obvious fact after the resurrection was the empty tomb. The disciples of Christ did not go off to Athens or Rome to preach that Christ was raised from the dead. Rather, they went right back to the city of Jerusalem, where, if what they were teaching was false, the falsity would be evident. The empty tomb was "too notorious to be denied." Paul Althaus states that the resurrection "could have not been maintained in Jerusalem for a single day, for a single hour, if the emptiness of the tomb had not been established as a fact for all concerned."
  
  Both Jewish and Roman sources and traditions admit an empty tomb. Those resources range from Josephus to a compilation of fifth-century Jewish writings called the "Toledoth Jeshu." Dr. Paul Maier calls this "positive evidence from a hostile source, which is the strongest kind of historical evidence. In essence, this means that if a source admits a fact decidedly not in its favor, then that fact is genuine."
  
  Gamaliel, who was a member of the Jewish high court, the Sanhedrin, put forth the suggestion that the rise of the Christian movement was God's doing; he could not have done that if the tomb were still occupied, or if the Sanhedrin knew the whereabouts of Christ's body.
  
  Paul Maier observes that " . . . if all the evidence is weighed carefully and fairly, it is indeed justifiable, according to the canons of historical research, to conclude that the sepulcher of Joseph of Arimathea, in which Jesus was buried, was actually empty on the morning of the first Easter. And no shred of evidence has yet been discovered in literary sources, epigraphy, or archaeology that would disprove this statement."
  
  FACT #3: LARGE STONE MOVED
  On that Sunday morning the first thing that impressed the people who approached the tomb was the unusual position of the one and a half to two ton stone that had been lodged in front of the doorway. All the Gospel writers mention it."
  

There is more, but I'll stop here.

Non-believers and believers alike have tried to disprove, but couldn't because there isn't any explanation nor evidence to disprove it. It's like the atheists who claim Jesus never existed. At least, you can commiserate with your fellow atheists so you're not alone.

Bold empty claim.

Care to support it with something other than more bold empty claims?

Again you are wrong. See above.

It's incredulous that ignorant atheists here question these things just because they were told something on the internet that tickled their fancy. At least, one atheist I knew posted something from Epicurus.

 

[metis]

"Beliefs" and "facts" are not synonymous terms, and the above is entirely based on the former. The more one studies theology, the more one realizes that objectively-derived evidence is lacking. I've been at these sites in Jerusalem, and what you hear is "We believe...". Fine, imo, as far as belief is concerned but hardly are they slam-dunk facts.

 

[McBell]

Life is too short and many people, if not all, believe in both truth and justice. That is why there is a intuitive feeling we have for both. God is like us, so there shall be final judgment. The signs are there for that instead of this life is all there is. I would agree with you if there was no resurrection (that which separate Christianity from the other Abrahamic and religions).



"Facts are stubborn things." - Bernard Mandeville

There is evidence besides the Bible. See my thread Jesus' Tomb Opened for First Time in Centuries and refer to #7 for one. There is the Shroud of Turin. Listen to the professors, too -- Evidence for the Resurrection .

"E. M. Blaiklock
Professor of Classics
Auckland University

BACKGROUND
The New Testament witnesses were fully aware of the background against which the resurrection took place. The body of Jesus, in accordance with Jewish burial custom, was wrapped in a linen cloth. About 100 pounds of aromatic spices, mixed together to form a gummy substance, were applied to the wrappings of cloth about the body. After the body was placed in a solid rock tomb, an extremely large stone was rolled against the entrance of the tomb. Large stones weighing approximately two tons were normally rolled (by means of levers) against a tomb entrance.

A Roman guard of strictly disciplined fighting men was stationed to guard the tomb. This guard affixed on the tomb the Roman seal, which was meant to "prevent any attempt at vandalizing the sepulcher. Anyone trying to move the stone from the tomb's entrance would have broken the seal and thus incurred the wrath of Roman law.

But three days later the tomb was empty. The followers of Jesus said He had risen from the dead. They reported that He appeared to them during a period of 40 days, showing Himself to them by many "infallible proofs." Paul the apostle recounted that Jesus appeared to more than 500 of His followers at one time, the majority of whom were still alive and who could confirm what Paul wrote. So many security precautions were taken with the trial, crucifixion, burial, entombment, sealing, and guarding of Christ's tomb that it becomes very difficult for critics to defend their position that Christ did not rise from the dead. Consider these facts:

• 
  FACT #1: BROKEN ROMAN SEAL
  As we have said, the first obvious fact was the breaking of the seal that stood for the power and authority of the Roman Empire. The consequences of breaking the seal were extremely severe. The FBI and CIA of the Roman Empire were called into action to find the man or men who were responsible. If they were apprehended, it meant automatic execution by crucifixion upside down. People feared the breaking of the seal. Jesus' disciples displayed signs of cowardice when they hid themselves. Peter, one of these disciples, went out and denied Christ three times.
  
  FACT #2: EMPTY TOMB
  As we have already discussed, another obvious fact after the resurrection was the empty tomb. The disciples of Christ did not go off to Athens or Rome to preach that Christ was raised from the dead. Rather, they went right back to the city of Jerusalem, where, if what they were teaching was false, the falsity would be evident. The empty tomb was "too notorious to be denied." Paul Althaus states that the resurrection "could have not been maintained in Jerusalem for a single day, for a single hour, if the emptiness of the tomb had not been established as a fact for all concerned."
  
  Both Jewish and Roman sources and traditions admit an empty tomb. Those resources range from Josephus to a compilation of fifth-century Jewish writings called the "Toledoth Jeshu." Dr. Paul Maier calls this "positive evidence from a hostile source, which is the strongest kind of historical evidence. In essence, this means that if a source admits a fact decidedly not in its favor, then that fact is genuine."
  
  Gamaliel, who was a member of the Jewish high court, the Sanhedrin, put forth the suggestion that the rise of the Christian movement was God's doing; he could not have done that if the tomb were still occupied, or if the Sanhedrin knew the whereabouts of Christ's body.
  
  Paul Maier observes that " . . . if all the evidence is weighed carefully and fairly, it is indeed justifiable, according to the canons of historical research, to conclude that the sepulcher of Joseph of Arimathea, in which Jesus was buried, was actually empty on the morning of the first Easter. And no shred of evidence has yet been discovered in literary sources, epigraphy, or archaeology that would disprove this statement."
  
  FACT #3: LARGE STONE MOVED
  On that Sunday morning the first thing that impressed the people who approached the tomb was the unusual position of the one and a half to two ton stone that had been lodged in front of the doorway. All the Gospel writers mention it."

There is more, but I'll stop here.

Non-believers and believers alike have tried to disprove, but couldn't because there isn't any explanation nor evidence to disprove it. It's like the atheists who claim Jesus never existed. At least, you can commiserate with your fellow atheists so you're not alone.



Again you are wrong. See above.

It's incredulous that ignorant atheists here question these things just because they were told something on the internet that tickled their fancy. At least, one atheist I knew posted something from Epicurus.

Ah, now it is revealed.
Your standard for evidence is much lower than mine.
In fact, your standard for evidence is so much lower than mine that I would call your standard for evidence confirmation bias.

 

[james bond]

Ah, now it is revealed.
Your standard for evidence is much lower than mine.
In fact, your standard for evidence is so much lower than mine that I would call your standard for evidence confirmation bias.

Wrong again. My floor is way above your ceiling. Keep trying.

EDIT: Will it be the same in the afterlife?

 

[McBell]

Wrong again. My floor is way above your ceiling. Keep trying.

EDIT: Will it be the same in the afterlife?

*yawn*
bold empty claims do not impress.

As for "the afterlife",,,
I have not seen anything that convinces me there is any such thing out side the wishful thinking of those who believe.

 

[james bond]

Evidence man did not *evolve* from apes ha ha.

1. Couldn't they just have lured him into the cart with a banana? Humans do not think like a chimp.

2. Chimps still have to be kept in an enclosure. They can't make a living for themselves.

3. They still rather climb tree like structures and swing from them instead of walking.

4. Yet, some chimpanzee-like-ape from 3.2 million years ago didn't do this sort of thing and became human.

5. Bwhahahahahahahaha.

 

[McBell]

Evidence man did not *evolve* from apes ha ha.

1. Couldn't they just have lured him into the cart with a banana? Humans do not think like a chimp.

2. Chimps still have to be kept in an enclosure. They can't make a living for themselves.

3. They still rather climb tree like structures and swing from them instead of walking.

4. Yet, some chimpanzee-like-ape from 3.2 million years ago didn't do this sort of thing and became human.

5. Bwhahahahahahahaha.

the only ones who claim humans evolved from apes are those ignorant of evolution.

your not understanding something doe snot make said not understood by you something wrong.

Nice try though.

 

[james bond]

the only ones who claim humans evolved from apes are those ignorant of evolution.

your not understanding something doe snot make said not understood by you something wrong.

Nice try though.

So you admit Lucy was another fake. Or else explain why Lucy had to walk when it was doing fine climbing trees and swinging from them. If bipedalism was the key to survival, then why continue to climb and swing? And bipedalism for humans is relatively slow mode of transportation and not conducive for distances like going to the supermarket.

Another day. Another contradiction in the world of evolution.

I remember reading this when studying evolution -- Fossil Hominids, Human Evolution: Thomas Huxley & Eugene Dubois so this explains *your* ignorance.

The chimpanzee-like-apes still exist and haven't changed from what they were. We also have the renowned professor who put together Lucy claim apes came from humans.

Professor: Man Did Not Evolve From Chimpanzee-like Apes
Professor: Man Did Not Evolve From Chimpanzee-like Apes | Kent State University

 

[james bond]

*yawn*
bold empty claims do not impress.

As for "the afterlife",,,
I have not seen anything that convinces me there is any such thing out side the wishful thinking of those who believe.

I'm sure you'll get it when your tail is on fire Mestemia cat.

 

[Tiberius]

Thus, the raven has some instinct to find land and not a homing instinct.

Why does the raven have an instinct to find land?

 

[Tiberius]

I didn't intend my post for an atheist or non-believer audience...

So instead you are posting it to convince people who are already convinced?

I'm sure you could show them a tiled floor and tell them it was evidence for something they already believed, and they'd accept it.

 

[james bond]

Why does the raven have an instinct to find land?

I know it's migratory. They have some kind of magnetic or other navigational tool using a combination of their senses. My friend on FB helps raise monarch butterfly pupae to maturity and they can migrate 3000 miles to a particular tree. What's interesting is they pass on this knowledge to succeeding generations. How exactly their navigation systems work have not been determined yet, but it's something DoD wants to know.

 

[james bond]

So instead you are posting it to convince people who are already convinced?

I'm sure you could show them a tiled floor and tell them it was evidence for something they already believed, and they'd accept it.

I was posting in order to talk about it more. We have different ideas of what the prophets said. One gal I talk to often thinks The Rapture will be coming soon. I don't think about those things, but think the end is still far away. Not in our lifetimes while she thinks it is. The line the words are written on the subway walls refers to it.

People depict an apocalyptic or dystopian future in films and I think we'll have that in reality as a warning. God destroyed the first world based on Genesis and this time it will be based on the Timothy, Daniel and other OT, so to me sin symbolizes global human destruction.

"What Does the Bible Say Will Happen in the End Times?
Sadly, the Bible predicts a downward spiral of catastrophes, human sin, and religious apostasy before Christ returns. Paul writes, “But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. . . . Evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived” (2 Timothy 3:1, 13). The world will continue to reject God, His Word, and His people.

Some day in the future – a day no one knows – God will end the Church Age which began in the first century on Pentecost (cf. Acts 2) with an event known as the Rapture. At that time, God removes all believers in Christ from the earth in preparation for His final judgments. Of the Rapture, Paul says, “For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words” (1 Thessalonians 4:14–18).

The erosion of peace and increase of turmoil that precedes the Rapture will reach epic proportions when untold numbers of people disappear from the earth. Such an event will cause panic and demands for a strong leader who will have answers to all the world’s problems. Preparation for this leader has been in progress for some time, as historian Arnold Toynbee has noted, “By forcing on mankind more and more lethal weapons, and at the same time making the world more and more interdependent economically, technology has brought mankind to such a degree of distress that we are ripe for the deifying of any new Caesar who might succeed in giving the world unity and peace.” Out of a revived Roman Empire, one that is organized in a European ten-constituency fashion (cf. Daniel 7:24; Revelation 13:1), the Antichrist will arise and sign a covenant with the nation of Israel, which will officially begin God’s prophetic seven-year countdown to Christ’s second coming (cf. Daniel 9:27).

For three and a half years, the Antichrist will reign over the earth and promise peace, but it is a false peace which will entrap the people of the earth. The Bible says, “While they are saying, ‘Peace and safety!’ then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape” (1 Thessalonians 5:3). Wars, earthquakes, and famines will escalate (cf. Matthew 24:7) until the end of the Antichrist’s 3.5-year reign, when he will enter a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem and proclaim himself to be God and demand worship (cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:4; Matthew 24:15). It is at that point that the true God responds to the challenge. For another 3.5 years, a Great Tribulation will occur, such as has never before been seen. Jesus predicted, “For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short” (Matthew 24:21–22).

Untold loss of life and destruction of the earth will occur during the Great Tribulation. Also, large numbers will come to faith in Christ, yet many will do so at cost of their lives. God will still be in control as He gathers the unbelieving armies of the world in order to judge them. Of this event, the prophet Joel wrote, “I will gather all the nations And bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat. Then I will enter into judgment with them there on behalf of My people” (Joel 3:2). John records the battle this way: “And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon [Satan] and out of the mouth of the beast [the Antichrist] and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs; for they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty. . . . And they gathered them together to the place which in Hebrew is called Har-Magedon” (Revelation 16:13–16).

At this point, the Messiah Jesus will return, destroy His enemies, and claim the world, which is rightfully His. “And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses. From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, ‘KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.’ Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in mid-heaven, ‘Come, assemble for the great supper of God, so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great.’ And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone. And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh” (Revelation 19:11–21).

After Christ has defeated all the armies gathered in the valley of Armageddon, He will reign with His saints for one thousand years and fully restore Israel to her land. At the end of a thousand years, a final judgment of the nations and all remaining mankind will occur, which is then followed by an eternal state: either spent with God or separated from Him (cf. Revelation 20-21).

The above events are not speculations or possibilities – they are what will take place in the future. Just as all the Bible’s prophecies of Christ’s first coming came true, so will all the Bible’s prophecies of His second coming.

Given the truth of these prophecies, what impact should they have on us now? Peter asks this question: “Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! ” (2 Peter 3:11–12)."