SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
This is an old myth. Many Precambrian fossils have been found. In fact, I live about an hour's drive from the Precambrian Shield where you can go and see the fossils for yourself.
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Verifiable evidence for creationism?
- Thread starter leibowde84
- Start date
Yeah, trilobites....wow! Real transitional fossils!
At least some uni-cellular phyla were around long before the Cambrian Explosion. It doesn't represent some kind of problem for evolution because (1) the transitional stage between uni-cellular and multi-cellular organisms would be colonial organisms (such as Horodyskia and Grypania), which are known from fossils 1-2.1 billion years old (whereas the oldest unicellular fossils are over 3.7 billion years old and the Cambrian Explosion began around 542 million years ago). (2) Soft-bodied organisms fossilize more rarely than those which have hard parts such as bones or shells and thus primitive precursors to arthropods and chordates without hard parts would be more rare. Some simple multi-cellular forms which predate the Cambrian Explosion are known, however (such as Kimberella, at 555-558 million years ago). (3) The Cambrian Explosion was an explosion relative to geographic time, but still covered a span of 20-25 million years.
AndromedaRXJ
Active Member
By that, you mean the belief system of creationism exists, I'm guessing. lol
leibowde84
Veteran Member
The Cambrian Explosion occurred over a period of between 20-25 million years. I think you need to check your facts on that one.
What did I say that's wrong? I didn't name it the "Explosion."
leibowde84
Veteran Member
1. Many, not all, modern phyla occurred between 570 and 540 million years ago, so this "explosion" occurred over 30 million years. There was no "creation event" during this time, as the evolution of these phyla can be seen in the fossil record.
2. While the Biblical account might account for many phyla appearing at once, it is a supernatural account not supported by any evidence. It is pretty darn easy to provide an explanation for a currently mysterious natural event when that explanation resorts to supernatural power and actions.
3. Although we don't have an explanation that is agreed upon by the scientific community, that in no way means that jumping to the conclusion of God is reasonable, as that is nothing more than an argument from ignorance or a "God of the gaps" argument. Scientists now think that the reasoning for so many different organisms changing so rapidly (NOT APPEARING as you claim, but evolving rapidly) was not caused by any single factor. Most likely it was a combination of biotic and abiotic processes. There are a plethora of various hypotheses explaining the Cambrian Explosion. It in no way contradicts the ToE, but, instead, strengthens/supports it.
Read ncse.com/blog/2013/10/what-caused-Cambrian-explosion-0015114 for reference.
So, do you agree on the time frame? Namely that all that took place many millions years ago during an epoch identified as the Cambrian.
Do you also agree that no humans existed at that time and will not until very recently? Do you agree that we and gorillas share a common ancestor?
If you do not agree. why do you agree only on some of established scientific findings and not on the others?
Ciao
- viole
leibowde84
Veteran Member
You erroneously claimed that transitional fossils weren't found when, in fact, they were. The "explosion" aspect is how much these species changed over a relatively short amount of time (roughly 30 million years).
"......the evolution of these phyla can be seen in the fossil record."????
That is absolutely untrue! Over that relatively short geologic period, each animal representing those phyla start appearing suddenly in the fossil record, fully developed! There are no older fossils depicting any kind of transitional development! That's a fact, and to imply otherwise is disingenuous.
The facts in this case lend credence to the act of creation.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
I'm sorry, but you are wrong. Recent discoveries and understanding of the precambrian period show the lineage of these organisms that rapidly changed during the cambrian explosion. The erroneous notion that these organisms appeared without prior lineage is a common, but mistaken assumption made by many creationists. But, now we KNOW and have FOSSIL EVIDENCE that shows these life forms evolved, but changed rapidly over the 20-30 million years during the "explosion" (see below).
http://ncse.com/blog/2013/10/darwin-s-dilemma-was-cambrian-explosion-too-fast-evolution-0015109
"In the “sudden appearance” of organisms during the geologically brief Cambrian explosion, creationists imagine tangible evidence for the supernatural creation of animal “kinds.” To their eyes, these rocks record the moment of creation when Yahweh declared: “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds.” They point to Precambrian rocks with their lack of fossilized hard parts, then point to Cambrian layers with their copious fossils and say, “See! Right there: creation.” The story is not so simple, of course; we now know a lot more about life in the period before the Cambrian. The ancient lineages that eventually diversified extend far back in time, a long fuse leading to the eventual explosion.
While the rapid evolution during the Cambrian is described as geologically brief, it is important to define what that means. On human timescales, the shortest estimation for the length of the Cambrian explosion, about 10 million years, is incomprehensibly long. Moreover, the tiny Cambrian arthropods likely had much faster maturations and much shorter lifespans than humans. Our anthropocentric perception of the flow of time, in which a family might have only three or four generations per century, is very different from the number of generations Cambrian critters produced. Ten million years provides plentiful time, as Lee et al. showed. Yet creationists insist that there was not enough time for such biological complexity to arise, without ever defining why that time frame is insufficient."
What source are you getting your information from?
Midnight Rain
Well-Known Member
Not to mention we have found pre-Cambrian fossils. So I mean.... there is that. Absolute evidence that there was life prior to this "creation event" that so many creationists attempt to cling.
Certainly....I'm not saying there wasn't. I have a few pre-Cambrian fossils myself.
Yes, I'll tentatively agree to the time frame. I'm definitely not a YEC.
"Do you agree that we and gorillas share a common ancestor?"
No. Humans are unique, no animal -- even the Bonobo -- comes close, to any significant degree! (Oh, I'm sorry, we both poop.) In fact, the gulf between us and any other species is too huge. And yet, all human populations, although different in many physical and cultural ways, nevertheless share innate emotional, linguistic, intellectual, etc., similarities that practically mirror each other!
And looking at world human population studies, they don't agree with accepted prehistoric hominid development. Though it does tend to support the Bible's timescale.
As far as "established" scientific findings regarding evolution? Get a group of evolutionary scientists together, and try to get them all to agree on the facets of a particular event. Some of the most heated arguments I've ever been privy to, were between evolutionists! And I'm supposed to take their word for it?
I try to see the forest, in spite of the trees! I feel most evolutionists don't.
Take care.....have a good evening!
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Skwim
Veteran Member
Overview of primate ancestory .........................................................................................Detailed differentiation of the Hominini tribe
Taxonomic primate evolution showing the human and gorilla split 18m years ago
Note that homos and gorillas are both members of Homininae, a subfamily of Hominidae that includes the tribes Hominini
and Gorillini, which together encompass humans, some extinct relatives, chimpanzees and bonobos, as well as gorillas.
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AndromedaRXJ
Active Member
Something about this remark seems vehemently dishonest rather than being sincere ignorance.
Nothing vehement on my end, and wasn't trying to be dishonest. Its only sarcasm, based on cladistics.
Trying to be humorous, but I guess I failed.
AndromedaRXJ
Active Member
So you sincerely think our shared ability to poop is our most substantial commonality?
No, it's more like how we both can wipe our butts.
It certainly isn't based on our "shared" abilities to show mercy; to compose music; to choose employment; to write poetry; to care for the disadvantaged; to contemplate our existence; et.al. These things are "substantial"!
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