ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
Are you suggesting that we didn't know that the human body contained water 1400 years ago?
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Verifiable evidence for creationism?
- Thread starter leibowde84
- Start date
Jabar
“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
@Blastcat Now the question should be verifiable evidence of non-creationism. Yeah, let me see none. Believing in Creationism is just a matter of logic. First of all i would like to congratulate you because you do not believe in false deities. You have completed partial shahada, there is no God. Now my job is to prove illallah, but Allah. If there is an unidentified object which no one in the world has seen, no human on the world knows about this object and it is brought in front of you. And a question is asked who would be the first person who will provide the mechanism of this unidentified object or new object that no one in the world has seen or know about. The simple answer is the Creator or anything that means the same. Do not grapple with the words, accept it, it will be the Creator. Another question: How did the universe come into existence?
Jabar
“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
No you are lacking in critical thinking skills, i am saying we did not know that EVERY LIVING THING contains water 1400 years ago.
Blastcat
Active Member
Apparently, lol. They just could not have known that water was kinda vital to life!!
Only modern SCIENCE found that out!!!!!
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
Excuse me? All I did was ask a question. You can't possibly judge my critical thinking skills from a single enquiry. Exercise some respect in future.
And on what basis do you make this claim?
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
Not possible, because creationism is an unfalsifiable hypothesis.
This makes absolutely no logical sense. Where is the logic here?
We don't know yet.
Jabar
“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
Your critical thinking skills are very limited once again. On what basis? Quran 21:30: Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?
Creationism is not what you regard it as. Specifically, the Qur'an provides scientific evidence that has been proven by this science.
You are just blinded by today's society. Let me ask you a question. If a new object or a machine, which no one in the world has ever seen or heard of before, is shown to an atheist or any person and then a question is asked, " Who is the first person who will be able to provide details of the mechanism of this unknown object? After little bit of thinking, he will reply, ‘the creator of that object.’ Some may say ‘the producer’ while others may say ‘the manufacturer.’ What ever answer the person gives, keep it in your mind, the answer will always be either the creator, the producer, the manufacturer or some what of the same meaning, i.e. the person who has made it or created it. Don’t grapple with words, whatever answer he gives, the meaning will be same, therefore accept it.
AndromedaRXJ
Active Member
It's not a hard guess to make regardless. No matter how you slice it, the Quran pointing out the association of water and life isn't anything substantial at all.
I'm not saying it is a coincidence, as humans living at that time would have known that every living thing they were aware of did indeed contain and require water. It's not a difficult observation to make.
Jabar
“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
That is blasphemy of you. There is no way anyone at that time would know EVERY LIVING THING is made of water. Besides even if they did, it was not difficult. It must have took a lot of dedication. However because you remain to have your beliefs and say that this was already known when it probably was not i have other evidence. The Qur'an talks about the Rosette Nebula:
When the Heaven shall be cleft asunder, and become rose red, like stained leather. (Surat ar-Rahman, 37)
The Arabic expression translated above as "become rose red, like stained leather"is "verdeten ke eddihani." This term compares an image appearing in the sky to a red rose. This description bears a close similarity to red celestial bodies with a plicate appearance, especially the "Rosette Nebula."
Nebula is the name given to cloud-like masses of gas in space. Before they become nebulae they are stars, and since these stars are very large, they release gasses into space because of their high internal pressure and temperatures. These eruptions of gas are very large and fast. These gasses then coalesce to form a gas cloud, with a temperature of more than 15,000 0C.1
One type of nebula is known as the "Rosette Nebula" because of its resemblance to a rose. The Rosette Nebula is also a vast cloud of gas and seems to have an area five times greater than that of the full moon.2 Its true diameter is estimated at 130 light years.3
A team led by Leisa Townsley, a senior Penn State University researcher in the field of astronomy and astrophysics, examined the Rosette Nebula using the Chandra X-ray telescope. They imaged hundreds of stars in the Rosette Nebula and determined that by crashing into one another stars produce gas at temperatures of 6 million degrees. Townsley describes what she saw:
A ghostly glow of diffuse X ray emission pervades the Rosette Nebula and perhaps many other star-forming regions throughout the Galaxy. We now have a new view of the engine lighting the beautiful Rosette Nebula and new evidence for how the interstellar medium may be energized."4
The existence of this body seen in the illustrations can only be confirmed by high-tech observation equipment. This state of affairs regarding the skies noted in the Qur'an is in great agreement with the findings of present-day astronomy. In one verse of the Qur'an we are told:
You do not engage in any matter or recite any of the Qur'an or do any action without Our witnessing you while you are occupied with it. Not even the smallest speck eludes your Lord, either on earth or in heaven. Nor is there anything smaller than that, or larger, which is not in a Clear Book. (Surah Yunus, 61)
The Quran also speaks of Black Holes:
When the stars are extinguished, (Qur'an, 77:8)
Moreover, stars of great mass also cause warps to be perceived in space. Black holes, however, do not just cause warps in space but also tear holes in it. That is why these collapsed stars are known as black holes. This fact may be referred to in the verse about stars, and this is another important item of information demonstrating that the Qur'an is the Word of Allah:
[I swear] by Heaven and the Tariq! And what will convey to you what the Tariq is? The Star Piercing [the darkness]! (Qur'an, 86:1-3)
Company of jinn and men, if you are able to pierce through the confines of the heavens and earth, pierce through them. You will not pierce through except with a clear authority. (Qur'an, 55:33)
The Arabic word translated as "confines" in the above verse is "aqtar." This is the plural form of the word "qutr," meaning diameter and refers to the skies and the Earth having many diameters. It is possible in Arabic to tell from the form in which a word is used whether it is singular, plural (more than two), or employed in a dual form. Therefore, the form of the word used here, the plural, refers to another piece of miraculous information.
A three-dimensional body can only be said to have a single diameter if it is perfectly spherical. The term "diameters" can only refer to an irregular but basically spherical shape. This word chosen in the Qur'an-diameters-is important from the point of view of indicating the geoid shape of the Earth. The second noteworthy subject in the verse is that the Earth and the heavens are mentioned separately in reference to diameters.
According to Albert Einstein's General Theory of Relativity, the universe is expanding. But this does not mean that the galaxies and other heavenly bodies are being dispersed in space. This means that space is expanding and that the distance between the galaxies is increasing.
The definition of the "confines of the heavens" in Surat ar-Rahman 33 indicates the spherical structure of space. (Allah knows best.) In the same way that the diameters of space will be different from different points in space, so the diameters of a constantly expanding space will also display differences. From that point of view the use of the plural form of the word confine is full of wisdom, and is one of the indications that the Qur'an is the revelation of our Omniscient Lord.
Universe is expanding: “And it is We who have built the Universe with [Our creative] power and keep expanding it.” (Quran 51:47)
There are much much more i can say.
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Blastcat
Active Member
You should make sure to bold all of it. We might not pay attention otherwise.
What definition of blasphemy are you using here? It's certainly not one that I'm aware of.
All living things known at the time required and contained water, despite the great diversity in their forms. Given that evidence, it wouldn't have been much of a leap in logic to assume that water was a key ingredient in living things.
If you want to get really technical about it, we don't even know for sure that all living things do contain water. We certainly haven't discovered all life.
Sounds like the Quran is talking about something else in that verse. Has the Rosette Nebula caused the sky to "be cleft asunder"? Have the heavens themselves become red? Nope. You're talking about a single object that has no impact on the color of the sky as a whole. There are objects of every color in the night sky, so no matter what color the Quran said, there would be something up there with that color. It's not exactly a miracle if there is no "wrong" color.
That is so amazingly vague I don't see how you can connect that with black holes. Stars being extinguished doesn't sound like anything more than a statement that they are no longer emitting light. That doesn't require any kind of miraculous knowledge. All that demonstrates is that the author thought that stars either had a finite life span or could be extinguished by something else. Everything in the universe has a finite life span, so it was an easy guess to make.
How does a star "piercing the darkness" have anything to do with black holes? Black holes are no longer stars. What does it even mean to "pierce the darkness"? Black holes themselves are dark, so how can they "pierce" the dark?
That could just as easily be a reference to continually constructing the universe or bringing new things into it. Even if it is a reference to literal expansion, it could still be a lucky guess because there are only three options: (1) space is expanding, (2) space is static, or (3) space is contracting. It would take much more than a 1 in 3 chance to prove that a piece of information is miraculous in origin.
What I'm more interested in would be a clear, unknowable, unguessable fact found in the Quran that is pointed out before the corresponding scientific discovery is made. Something specific and not vague, like the mass of a subatomic particle that we haven't found yet.
McBell
Unbound
And you most likely will.
Though I have to admit you are good for a laugh when life gets boring.
Jabar
“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
@Parsimony You are really being arrogant, you do not even accept the fact that it talks about things we have discovered lately. You say it is lucky that it said universe is expanding and that is absurd. At that time there was nothing for people to investigate space and forget knowing about it. Not only that the Qur'an says the world is round not only that but the shape is described very accurate. Qur'an describes the Earth like a ostrich-egg which is very accurate in terms of the shape of the Earth.
that is Sura Naziyat Aya 30 reads in Arabic ” WAL ARDS BAID ZALIKA DOHAHA”.
Ostrich egg
Now I will write word by word meaning of this Aya
WAL means AND
ARDA means EARTH
BAID means AFTER
ZALIKA means THAT
DOHAHA MEANS EGG SHAPED THING
Now see the English translation of the Sura 79:30“And the earth , moreover, hath he extended in egg shape.”
The origin of the verb, “Dohaha,” is found in the word (Ud-hiya), which means “egg of ostrich”
Read more: http://newsrescue.com/the-earth-is-egg-shaped-nasa-validates-quran-ancient-scripture/#ixzz47PcqVl26
Orbits
While referring to the Sun and the Moon in the Qur'an, it is emphasized that each moves in a definite orbit.
"It is He Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They swim along, each in an orbit. "
(The Qur'an, 21:33)
It is mentioned in another verse, too, that the Sun is not static but moves in a definite orbit:
"And the sun runs to its resting place. That is the decree of the Almighty, the All-Knowing. "
(The Qur'an, 37:38)
These facts communicated in the Qur'an have been discovered by astronomical observations in our age. According to the calculations of experts on astronomy, the Sun is traveling at the enormous speed of 720,000 kilometers an hour in the direction of the star Vega in a particular orbit called the Solar Apex. This means that the sun travels roughly 17,280,000 kilometers a day. Along with the Sun, and all planets and satellites within the gravitational system of the Sun also travel the same distance. In addition, all the stars in the universe are in a similar planned motion.
That the entire universe is full of paths and orbits such as this one, is written in the Qur'an as follows:
"By the sky full of paths and orbits."
(The Qur'an, 51:7)
Surely at the time the Qur'an was revealed, mankind did not possess today's telescopes or advanced observation technologies to observe millions of kilometres of space, nor the modern knowledge of physics or astronomy. Therefore, at that time, it was not possible to determine scientifically that space is "full of paths and orbits" as stated in the verse. However, this was openly declared to us in the Qur'an that was revealed at that time:-because the Qur'an is the word of God.
http://www.missionislam.com/science/book.htm
that is Sura Naziyat Aya 30 reads in Arabic ” WAL ARDS BAID ZALIKA DOHAHA”.
Ostrich egg
Now I will write word by word meaning of this Aya
WAL means AND
ARDA means EARTH
BAID means AFTER
ZALIKA means THAT
DOHAHA MEANS EGG SHAPED THING
Now see the English translation of the Sura 79:30“And the earth , moreover, hath he extended in egg shape.”
The origin of the verb, “Dohaha,” is found in the word (Ud-hiya), which means “egg of ostrich”
Read more: http://newsrescue.com/the-earth-is-egg-shaped-nasa-validates-quran-ancient-scripture/#ixzz47PcqVl26
Orbits
While referring to the Sun and the Moon in the Qur'an, it is emphasized that each moves in a definite orbit.
"It is He Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They swim along, each in an orbit. "
(The Qur'an, 21:33)
It is mentioned in another verse, too, that the Sun is not static but moves in a definite orbit:
"And the sun runs to its resting place. That is the decree of the Almighty, the All-Knowing. "
(The Qur'an, 37:38)
These facts communicated in the Qur'an have been discovered by astronomical observations in our age. According to the calculations of experts on astronomy, the Sun is traveling at the enormous speed of 720,000 kilometers an hour in the direction of the star Vega in a particular orbit called the Solar Apex. This means that the sun travels roughly 17,280,000 kilometers a day. Along with the Sun, and all planets and satellites within the gravitational system of the Sun also travel the same distance. In addition, all the stars in the universe are in a similar planned motion.
That the entire universe is full of paths and orbits such as this one, is written in the Qur'an as follows:
"By the sky full of paths and orbits."
(The Qur'an, 51:7)
Surely at the time the Qur'an was revealed, mankind did not possess today's telescopes or advanced observation technologies to observe millions of kilometres of space, nor the modern knowledge of physics or astronomy. Therefore, at that time, it was not possible to determine scientifically that space is "full of paths and orbits" as stated in the verse. However, this was openly declared to us in the Qur'an that was revealed at that time:-because the Qur'an is the word of God.
http://www.missionislam.com/science/book.htm
Sapiens
Polymathematician
@Parsimony You are really being arrogant, you do not even accept the fact that it talks about things we have discovered lately. You say it is lucky that it said universe is expanding and that is absurd. At that time there was nothing for people to investigate space and forget knowing about it. Not only that the Qur'an says the world is round not only that but the shape is described very accurate. Qur'an describes the Earth like a ostrich-egg which is very accurate in terms of the shape of the Earth.
that is Sura Naziyat Aya 30 reads in Arabic ” WAL ARDS BAID ZALIKA DOHAHA”.
Ostrich egg
Now I will write word by word meaning of this Aya
WAL means AND
ARDA means EARTH
BAID means AFTER
ZALIKA means THAT
DOHAHA MEANS EGG SHAPED THING
Now see the English translation of the Sura 79:30“And the earth , moreover, hath he extended in egg shape.”
The origin of the verb, “Dohaha,” is found in the word (Ud-hiya), which means “egg of ostrich”
Read more: http://newsrescue.com/the-earth-is-egg-shaped-nasa-validates-quran-ancient-scripture/#ixzz47PcqVl26
Orbits
While referring to the Sun and the Moon in the Qur'an, it is emphasized that each moves in a definite orbit.
"It is He Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They swim along, each in an orbit. "
(The Qur'an, 21:33)
It is mentioned in another verse, too, that the Sun is not static but moves in a definite orbit:
"And the sun runs to its resting place. That is the decree of the Almighty, the All-Knowing. "
(The Qur'an, 37:38)
These facts communicated in the Qur'an have been discovered by astronomical observations in our age. According to the calculations of experts on astronomy, the Sun is traveling at the enormous speed of 720,000 kilometers an hour in the direction of the star Vega in a particular orbit called the Solar Apex. This means that the sun travels roughly 17,280,000 kilometers a day. Along with the Sun, and all planets and satellites within the gravitational system of the Sun also travel the same distance. In addition, all the stars in the universe are in a similar planned motion.
That the entire universe is full of paths and orbits such as this one, is written in the Qur'an as follows:
"By the sky full of paths and orbits."
(The Qur'an, 51:7)
Surely at the time the Qur'an was revealed, mankind did not possess today's telescopes or advanced observation technologies to observe millions of kilometres of space, nor the modern knowledge of physics or astronomy. Therefore, at that time, it was not possible to determine scientifically that space is "full of paths and orbits" as stated in the verse. However, this was openly declared to us in the Qur'an that was revealed at that time:-because the Qur'an is the word of God.
http://www.missionislam.com/science/book.htm
No, no, no. The Earth is not the shape of an egg. An egg is a prolate spheroid, the Earth is an oblate spheroid. The difference between the equatorial and polar diameter of Eath is a mere 42.72 km (with the equatorial diameter being longer). This all happens thanks to centrifugal force from Earth's rotation. If you shrink the earth to the size of a bowling ball it will be out of perfect round by less that 0.045 of an inch. Thus, while you have the freedom to believe anything you want, you should know that even if your Qur'an is the word of your God ... it is still wrong.
Jabar
“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
Ostrich egg. It is not wrong.
The Arabic word for egg here is dahaahaa1 which means an ostrich-egg. The shape of an ostrich-egg resembles the geo-spherical shape of the earth. Thus the Qur’an correctly describes the shape of the earth.
Sapiens
Polymathematician
Sorry, you are entitled to your own opinion but not to your own facts, The Earth is an almost perfect sphere, with the polar radius being some 20 odd miles less than the equatorial one. This makes it an oblate spheroid.:
An ostrich egg is the opposite, a prolate sphere:
Actually, an ostrich egg is an asymmetric tapered oval, even less like the Earth in shape, the egg's "southern" hemisphere being more rounded and the "northern" hemisphere more pointed. Sorry, at least with respect to this issue your God and your book are major failures.
Jabar
“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
Before you come at me and jump to conclusions you should first read the Qur'an. Second, yes lets say for the sake of discussion it is not like a ostrich egg. I might of made a misconception, in fact yes i probably did because it does not exactly say earth is egg shaped in the Qur'an. The actual translations are:Sorry, you are entitled to your own opinion but not to your own facts, The Earth is an almost perfect sphere, with the polar radius being some 20 odd miles less than the equatorial one. This makes it an oblate spheroid.:
An ostrich egg is the opposite, a prolate sphere:
Actually, an ostrich egg is an asymmetric tapered oval, even less like the Earth in shape, the egg's "southern" hemisphere being more rounded and the "northern" hemisphere more pointed. Sorry, at least with respect to this issue your God and your book are major failures.
MUHSIN KHAN
And after that He spread the earth;
PICKTHALL
And after that He spread the earth,
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
And after that He spread the earth.
SHAKIR
And the earth, He expanded it after that.
YUSUF ALI
And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse);
So, take into consideration that it never says it is actually like a ostrich egg, it is just Muslim scholars and people translated it into that context. However, yes i looked at the wrong translation. Either way this does not put an error in the Qur'an and it is still the word of God. Besides take into account about how it mentions so many others scientific evidences.
Read actual translation: http://www.quran.com/79
Sapiens
Polymathematician
OK, so now that you've been shown that the Earth is not shaped like an egg, you backpedal and throw the Muslim scholars and translators under the bus. Why are you wasting our time with claims that turn out to be horse pucky? Do not forget that the best predictor of future performance is past performance and you have quite a hole to climb out of before anyone will take you seriously again.
I told you that you were wrong back at post 1615. You should have admitted your error then, instead of:
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AndromedaRXJ
Active Member
The Earth is egg shaped? Wut? lol
NO!
NO!