Video: Texas judge allegedly beating 16 YO daughter

[Magic Man]

I happen to believe that spanking a child can be good as long as it deosn't reach outside of the boundaries of love into that of control.

Then you should check out research on the subject.

Spanking Detrimental to Children

Long-term Effects of Spanking

On this notion I believe those who don't discipline their children are very abusive and turn children who were seeking the love of discipline from their parents into an act of rebellion for the attention out in society when they grow up for this is the only form of attention and love they know.

Of course you have to discipline your children somehow. The question is how. I used to think spanking and such was OK, but it's not even that it's wrong, it's more just that it's not the best option.

 

[Manfred]

I'm not trying to get you to say that the alternative is a physical one, clearly you don't believe it is. That would be a waste of time on my part.

You said this:

• The Big Lecture. ( And is that doesn't work, we try time out )
• The Time Out. ( And if that doesn't work, we try grounding )
• The Grounding. ( And if that doesn't work, we remove their privileges)
• The Removal of Privileges.

What I'm asking you, and have been asking you is what would the alternitive be to haveing taken away all your child's privileges, and it still hasn't worked?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I'm not trying to get you to say that the alternative is a physical one, clearly you don't believe it is. That would be a waste of time on my part.


You said this:

• The Big Lecture. ( And is that doesn't work, we try time out )
• The Time Out. ( And if that doesn't work, we try grounding )
• The Grounding. ( And if that doesn't work, we remove their privileges)
• The Removal of Privileges.

What I'm asking you, and have been asking you is what would the alternitive be to haveing taken away all your child's privileges, and it still hasn't worked?

Then give up your kids for adoption - you are obviously not capable enough to be a fit parent if you can't figure out how to manipulate a kid into doing what you want them to do without smacking them around.

 

[Magic Man]

You guys are addicted to the analogy.

One more time; humor me, will you?

99.99% of the time, those work. The other .01% of the time, if they haven't worked, hitting isn't going to work either. Think of it this way:

Your spouse wants to leave you. You change your attitude, change your wardrobe, start buying her flowers, become friends with her friends and lose weight. Now, if those things don't make her want to stay with you, do you think beating her is going to do the trick?

 

[Alceste]

Then you should check out research on the subject.

Spanking Detrimental to Children

Long-term Effects of Spanking



Of course you have to discipline your children somehow. The question is how. I used to think spanking and such was OK, but it's not even that it's wrong, it's more just that it's not the best option.

OTOH, I used to think spanking was absolutely terrible, but I did a lot of research and learned that it can be effective for moderating the behavior of very young (IOW, pre-verbal) children if done in moderation and without anger (although no more effective than other forms of discipline), and that moderate, clinical spanking of young children does little measurable damage in the long run. So I am more willing than I once was to cut parents who spank their kids once in a while some slack after looking at the evidence. OTOH, I still would never do it myself because whether or not it causes enduring psychological harm I think it's morally wrong.

 

[Walkntune]

Time out is child abuse.It is a mild form of control.I hate it that we live in a shallow extroverted world and they try and force there opinions of how to raise children on society.
Some kids are extroverted and others are introverted.Time out for one is abuse as they have certain social needs and it is damaging to the self esteem and at the same time for introverted children are grateful to get a few minutes away from the shallowness of the others.If someone can't tell the difference in a child i really think they have no business even dealing with children as they are being abusive and don't even know it.
Taking away cookies for discipline is abusive also as it teaches a kid that he is rewarded with that which is not good for you and can create bad patterns of addiction as they grow and try and reward themselves.There is only one form of discipline that is good for a child but I won't share until later.

 

[not nom]

There is only one form of discipline that is good for a child but I won't share until later.

okay now I'm curious ^^

 

[Magic Man]

Time out is child abuse.It is a mild form of control.I hate it that we live in a shallow extroverted world and they try and force there opinions of how to raise children on society.
Some kids are extroverted and others are introverted.Time out for one is abuse as they have certain social needs and it is damaging to the self esteem and at the same time for introverted children are grateful to get a few minutes away from the shallowness of the others.If someone can't tell the difference in a child i really think they have no business even dealing with children as they are being abusive and don't even know it.
Taking away cookies for discipline is abusive also as it teaches a kid that he is rewarded with that which is not good for you and can create bad patterns of addiction as they grow and try and reward themselves.There is only one form of discipline that is good for a child but I won't share until later.

Sorry, but this is just false. Disciplining your child in these ways is not abuse.

 

[Alceste]

I'm not trying to get you to say that the alternative is a physical one, clearly you don't believe it is. That would be a waste of time on my part.

You said this:

• The Big Lecture. ( And is that doesn't work, we try time out )
• The Time Out. ( And if that doesn't work, we try grounding )
• The Grounding. ( And if that doesn't work, we remove their privileges)
• The Removal of Privileges.

What I'm asking you, and have been asking you is what would the alternitive be to haveing taken away all your child's privileges, and it still hasn't worked?

Lots of unruly children behave better when their parents stop pumping them full of sugar and junk food and make sure they get enough physical exercise. Of course I'd also talk to the kid throughout the process, see what I could discover about their thinking and try to implement some change in their routine that I felt would mitigate the cause of the problem. For example, if I felt they were acting out because they were bored, I'd get them to help me build something. A treehouse, a chicken coop, a greenhouse, whatever. Kids like building things.

My man is the son of a psychoanalyst so talking problems through will inevitably be part of any child raising strategy in our family, if we ever manage to get our hands on some children.

 

[Walkntune]

OTOH, I used to think spanking was absolutely terrible, but I did a lot of research and learned that it can be effective for moderating the behavior of very young (IOW, pre-verbal) children if done in moderation and without anger (although no more effective than other forms of discipline), and that moderate, clinical spanking of young children does little measurable damage in the long run. So I am more willing than I once was to cut parents who spank their kids once in a while some slack after looking at the evidence. OTOH, I still would never do it myself because whether or not it causes enduring psychological harm I think it's morally wrong.

True spanking should be done at yound age and not to inflict physical pain but to inflict a disaproval out of love and that the behavior itself was the cause of this disaproval.The child will learn to walk and give actions that can draw love or a resitance to it and start to understand right and wrong is based in love and not any form of control even if its because(I am the adult).

 

[Walkntune]

Sorry, but this is just false. Disciplining your child in these ways is not abuse.

If you don't know and accept the difference between introverted and extroverted children then your opinion has no value.You explain why it works on both types of children if you don't mind since you you understand.

 

[Manfred]

Lots of unruly children behave better when their parents stop pumping them full of sugar and junk food and make sure they get enough physical exercise.

Perfect sense, and I completely agree. That's all I was trying to ask you.
I'm done with this thread

 

[waitasec]

Then give up your kids for adoption - you are obviously not capable enough to be a fit parent if you can't figure out how to manipulate a kid into doing what you want them to do without smacking them around.

indeed...

 

[Magic Man]

If you don't know and accept the difference between introverted and extroverted children then your opinion has no value.You explain why it works on both types of children if you don't mind since you you understand.

Time outs are not abuse. I didn't realize that was going to be up for debate.

 

[FreeTHinker4eva]

Anytime you hit your child, any time you yell-you just lost any validity you may have had. Yes I have hit my children, rarely yet-never been proud of it, nor thought hitting was right,in any sense on any level- hitting is just wrong. I was wrong.
Parents are human beings doing the best they can with what they have to work with-themselves- some of us need more work than others. hitting means you reacted rather than responded to the situation, call it what you will.

Children are personally deeply offended when you hit them-you can see it in their eyes if you look-and hitting doesn't work-declaring "oh I was hit and I'm fine!"-begs the question-are you? really?-no other way would have worked with you srsly? or rather is it we are lucky that kids forgive those they love unconditionally-we old kids included?
If your child's conduct rises to the level of hitting as consequence and your child has no medical diagnosis for such acting out behaviors-it really is your problem and yes it really is your fault-sorry-it's truth with parental inconsistency as the root cause of troubles-disrespect second-think about it- honestly . . .
Patience grasshopper[to me-often], and a sense of humor-my mantra's as every ounce of patience I ever had was hard won..every laugh offered; gratefully laughed -humor De-escalates a lot as long as it is not bully pulpit humor at your child's or another's expense-ever-we all need a safe place to land. is your home 'safe' or 'enemy territory...
~~peace~~

 

[Walkntune]

Then you should check out research on the subject.

Spanking Detrimental to Children

Long-term Effects of Spanking



Of course you have to discipline your children somehow. The question is how. I used to think spanking and such was OK, but it's not even that it's wrong, it's more just that it's not the best option.

Shows you what a bunch of idiots do these studies.The discipline is about showing a child disapproval out of a place of love and is only bennificial from parents who love there children.Sure if a teacher spanks a child then it will become more of a self esteem issue and not a love issue. If you can win your child when they are young they understand how much you love them , when they become teens and act inappropriately, they will understand your disapproval just in a look you give them and the very act of getting their actions back in line with your approval is all that would be becessary.
Using control to discipline is abusive in any form and in no way teaches right from wrong.

 

[Walkntune]

And as far as the video goes, if you think the abuse was physical you are dead wrong. If it would have been two teenage girls smacking each other they would have been laughing at the sting they put on each others butt. It was the emotional rape and control that was the abuse.It was the the girl crying daddy out in a desparate cry for love and him replying with control.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I agree, but that wasn't even close to child abuse.

I completely agree. He needed a kitchen sink, a steel toe, and a lightsabre for it to be considered child abuse.

Whatever happened to this world...

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'm not trying to get you to say that the alternative is a physical one, clearly you don't believe it is. That would be a waste of time on my part.



You said this:

• The Big Lecture. ( And is that doesn't work, we try time out )
• The Time Out. ( And if that doesn't work, we try grounding )
• The Grounding. ( And if that doesn't work, we remove their privileges)
• The Removal of Privileges.

What I'm asking you, and have been asking you is what would the alternitive be to haveing taken away all your child's privileges, and it still hasn't worked?

You keep on trying. It sometimes takes a while.

If it continues without improvement, you might consider a counselor or a psychologist.

But IMO - and even though I don't have kids myself, I speak with conviction on this point - if a person beats their child with a belt or any other weapon, they have implicitly declared that they are a failure as a parent.

 

[Alceste]

Anytime you hit your child, any time you yell-you just lost any validity you may have had. Yes I have hit my children, rarely yet-never been proud of it, nor thought hitting was right,in any sense on any level- hitting is just wrong. I was wrong.
Parents are human beings doing the best they can with what they have to work with-themselves- some of us need more work than others. hitting means you reacted rather than responded to the situation, call it what you will.

Children are personally deeply offended when you hit them-you can see it in their eyes if you look-and hitting doesn't work-declaring "oh I was hit and I'm fine!"-begs the question-are you? really?-no other way would have worked with you srsly? or rather is it we are lucky that kids forgive those they love unconditionally-we old kids included?
If your child's conduct rises to the level of hitting as consequence and your child has no medical diagnosis for such acting out behaviors-it really is your problem and yes it really is your fault-sorry-it's truth with parental inconsistency as the root cause of troubles-disrespect second-think about it- honestly . . .
Patience grasshopper[to me-often], and a sense of humor-my mantra's as every ounce of patience I ever had was hard won..every laugh offered; gratefully laughed -humor De-escalates a lot as long as it is not bully pulpit humor at your child's or another's expense-ever-we all need a safe place to land. is your home 'safe' or 'enemy territory...
~~peace~~

I know what you mean - I can see it. As much as I do my best to keep an even keel with kids, I have lost my temper from time to time. Nobody's perfect. When I have raised my voice, spoken in anger or stopped them from doing something irritating using physical force, I have seen an instant wall of distrust slam down. Luckily, all it has ever taken to restore a healthy relationship is a sincere apology - some kind of acknowledgment that I know as well as they do that I was being a jerk, and that I'm going to try to do better.