Video: Texas judge allegedly beating 16 YO daughter

[ChristineES]

The Mother very well could have been protecting herself by participating, idk?

What I DO know, is that IF you are going to discipline, then it ought to be when it happens and sure,swift, consistent, mechanical, without rage...

That is how you 'train' in the animal world and the same psychology applies to humans.

Punishment-Reward System.

Now lets say that hitting with a belt is somehow 'Fair' in that it's carried out with logic and restraint.

The credit I'll give the Mom is she says basically, I want one lash on your behind, turn over, take it and that'll be it.... rather than whipping her until she complies with the initial request.... that is only punishing someone for two things at once, and that is NOT effective psychology.....


I don't think it's right.... Don't get me wrong....

But at least Mom exhibited some integrity in a BAD situation and also kept the belt out of Dad's hands for a while.....


So talking outside of 'right and wrong' I feel psychologically, if you are going to punish with a hit, then it should be clinical at least.

If that is true, the man knew what his wife was doing and stalked out to "get the other belt". But mom did try, I think, to stop the beating before it got really out of hand. It could have been much worse if she hadn't intervened. But I don't know what her intent really was for sure. All I know is that I can't get those images of that girl screaming in pain out of my head.

 

[SageTree]

^^who is the adult in that situation though.

 

[Walkntune]

Are you implying that physical violence is the only possible form of child discipline?

As a teacher and a nanny, I can assure you it ain't so. How do you think teachers are able to manage 30 children at a time all day long without laying a hand on them?

I just never met to many kids who weren't spanked that are not spoiled and undisciplned.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I just never met to many kids who weren't spanked that are not spoiled and undisciplned.

I've never met too many kids who were spanked who aren't spoiled and undisciplined.

I see little correlation between physical punishment and good behavior. If anything, especially with boys, it promotes a tendency towards anti-social behavior, acting out, disrespect of other people, and a casualness about physical violence.

As someone who was beaten around regularly, I feel lucky that I was one of the few ones to come out the other side without the inability to control my temper and the perspective that hitting people is okay.

 

[SageTree]

I know is that I can't get those images of that girl screaming in pain out of my head.

Yea no doubt.

That video was a pretty triggered pretty cathartic memories.......

 

[Alceste]

So talking outside of 'right and wrong' I feel psychologically, if you are going to punish with a hit, then it should be clinical at least.

I still remember my two spankings - both delivered by mum in a clinical fashion. Two or three whoops on the bottom that didn't even hurt, and she wasn't angry while delivering them. The embarrassment and awkwardness of the whole thing was bad enough without adding physical pain. The thing is, I don't remember at all what they were for. I just remember hating my mum and thinking the whole situation was ridiculous. The last spanking she ever gave me she said as much herself. "I think I probably hate this even more than you do". I was about 5 or 6 and that was my last spanking. My dad took over the discipline job and gave me a big lecture whenever I did something wrong, and BOY do I ever remember it. I remember what I did and what he said and how I felt, and I not only stopped doing whatever it was (lying for one, stealing for another), the content of the big lecture became part of my character and world view. And I didn't hate him for them either. I could see that he was right because he took the time to explain why my behavior was wrong.

 

[ChristineES]

I just never met to many kids who weren't spanked that are not spoiled and undisciplined.

As long as you believe (and I think you do) that a spanking is not the same as a terrible whipping with a leather belt. A spanking, if you choose to use it, should be with the open hand only, and not with any kind of belt, switch, paddle, appliance cord, etc. It shouldn't leave any marks and it should never be done to a 16 year old- that is way, way too old to be spanked.

 

[SageTree]

^^ Well adjusted, Alceste

 

[Alceste]

I just never met to many kids who weren't spanked that are not spoiled and undisciplned.

I've met loads. It's extremely rare for people to discipline their kids with violence in the company I keep. Is it possible you are seeing children who seem unruly and assuming it's because they're not being hit? Or perhaps you're talking about children who aren't being disciplined at all?

Here are the top strategies the parents I know rely on:

• The Big Lecture.
• The Time Out.
• The Grounding.
• The Removal of Privileges.

IME, these seem to be completely effective without the addition of violence.

 

[Manfred]

• The Big Lecture.
• The Time Out.
• The Grounding.
• The Removal of Privileges.

And when that doesn't work?

 

[Tamar]

And when that doesn't work?

I have teenagers and other strategies work.. But growing up takes time and as children grow they learn and make lots of mistakes. They also test the waters and do things they are not supposed to. That is part of growing up and as parents we need to know that as we raise our children there is not just one way to teach.

Hitting our children is teaching through fear. It hurts the souls of children. It damages their self worth.

I will never forget the day I was 16 and I made my dad mad and he hit me several times in the face and bloodied my mouth because I had braces. I tore up his flower garden in anger and left the house for 3 days.

I didn't learn much that day other then my dad hurt me. As a mother I have to work hard not to react like my father did. I have had to work hard to not hurt my children like I was hurt.

Hitting hurts and it does nothing but instill fear.

 

[Alceste]

And when that doesn't work?

I haven't seen those strategies not work. OTOH, parents who are willing to use violence against their children seem to use it as their first and only form of discipline, not as a last resort. So what are you going to do when THAT doesn't work?

 

[Manfred]

I haven't seen those strategies not work.

You are capable of abstract thought, right?

Let's try this again:

• The Big Lecture.
• The Time Out.
• The Grounding.
• The Removal of Privileges.

And when that doesn't work?

 

[Magic Man]

I could just as easily ask why you keep following me around, but I won't because I don't care. You're obviously not going to agree with anything I say in this thread, so let it go.

"Following you around"? You posted on a thread. I responded, and we've gone back and forth. There's no need for the melodrama. If you think I should let it go, why don't you take your own advice?

 

[Alceste]

I have teenagers and they work.. But growing up takes time and as children grow they learn and make lots of mistakes. They also test the waters and do things they are not supposed to. That is part of growing up and as parents we need to know that as we raise our children there is not just one way to teach.

Hitting our children is teaching through fear. It hurts the souls of children. It damages their self worth.

I will never forget the day I was 16 and I made my dad mad and he hit me several times in the face and bloodied my mouth because I had braces. I tore up his flower garden in anger and left the house for 3 days.

I didn't learn much that day other then my dad hurt me. As a mother I have to work hard not to react like my father did. I have had to work hard to not hurt my children like I was hurt.

Hitting hurts and it does nothing but instill fear.

Well done for breaking the pattern. I know it's tough - I have a bit of a temper myself that I sometimes struggle keep the lid on when I'm teaching - especially when I'm PMSing. I do it though, because I know that one angry outburst can easily destroy the foundation of trust and respect I work so hard to build up with my students.

 

[Manfred]

"Following you around"? You posted on a thread. I responded, and we've gone back and forth. There's no need for the melodrama. If you think I should let it go, why don't you take your own advice?

You're absolutely right, mball. I've noting else to say to you in this thread.

 

[Alceste]

You are capable of abstract thought, right?

Let's try this again:

I'm telling you, they work. It's not necessary to come up with a "when that doesn't work" when one of the first four things you try works every time. When your car stops running, you check the gas, check the oil, check the battery, etc. "When that doesn't work" you get a mechanic. You don't smash the crap out of it with a baseball bat unless you're mentally unhinged.

 

[Manfred]

I'm telling you, they work. It's not necessary to come up with a "when that doesn't work" when one of the first four things you try works every time. When your car stops running, you check the gas, check the oil, check the battery, etc. "When that doesn't work" you get a mechanic. You don't smash the crap out of it with a baseball bat unless you're mentally unhinged.

You guys are addicted to the analogy.

One more time; humor me, will you?

• The Big Lecture.
• The Time Out.
• The Grounding.
• The Removal of Privileges.

And when that doesn't work

 

[Draka]

And when that doesn't work?

Let the other parent try those tactics?
Talk to the child and try to get to root of the problem?
Take child to therapist?

Beating and whipping a child is NEVER the answer. It only shows the shortcomings and mental instability of the parent.

Oh, and again, why do you insist on using the word "spank" when spanking is open palmed smacking against the buttocks? Not whipping the legs, sides and back of a child with a belt. They are completely different things.

 

[Alceste]

You guys are addicted to the analogy.

One more time; humor me, will you?

What makes you think they don't work?

I know you're absolutely desperate to get somebody to say "Oh, well, if grounding them didn't work then I would just kick the crap out of them" but it doesn't work like that. Those of us who are not violent towards children are NEVER violent towards them under ANY circumstances, however they behave. If all the non-violent discipline I could think of failed, I'd take them to a psychiatrist.