Video: Texas judge allegedly beating 16 YO daughter

[Alceste]

If that didn't work the first time, what makes you think this one will be any different?

Work at what? It's true. Children whose abuse is so severe that their psychological development is arrested before they develop a capacity for self-reflection often grow up to be abusers themselves. Like you, they insist child abuse is perfectly normal, perfectly OK, even necessary. And they often say things like "My parents smacked me around and it never did me any harm". That's tragic and ironic, because we can ALL see the harm it did. It's as obvious as a tattoo on your forehead: You need therapy, and you should not be allowed anywhere near children until you get it.

 

[Draka]

The first time this was insinuated I smiled. The second and third time it was brought up, it still made me smile.

...but you're different, aren't you; somehow you having suggested this makes it that much more potent.

You can attack me on a personal level all day long, it's an ineffective now as it was the first time.

I'm left wondering why, when being faced with your own apparent psychological issues, it makes you smile. It's not an insinuation, it's fact as much as admitted to by your own words. It's not an attack. It's people trying to help you to realize your issues that you are in denial about. Another thing that's interesting is that you don't actually address any other points I've made. If anything, you've just said you have no argument for my points but still maintain your faulty position. What does this say about you? What does this say about your state of mind? Now, considering your background, why do you think that is?

 

[Manfred]

Could I ask what you would call abuse then?

: Sexual assault, broken bones, starvation, unsanitary living conditions, neglect..etc
Spanking your child with a doubled up leather belt isn't child abuse. Sorry gang.

Page 5

 

[Draka]

Manfred, what about a child makes it more acceptable to whip them with a belt than to whip a spouse with a belt?

Also, why do you insist on using the word "spank"? To try to diminish what it really is? Spanking is open palmed smacking on a person's bottom. What this man did was WHIP his daughter about her legs, sides, and back with his leather belt. That is NOT spanking.

 

[Walkntune]

Work at what? It's true. Children whose abuse is so severe that their psychological development is arrested before they develop a capacity for self-reflection often grow up to be abusers themselves. Like you, they insist child abuse is perfectly normal, perfectly OK, even necessary. And they often say things like "My parents smacked me around and it never did me any harm". That's tragic and ironic, because we can ALL see the harm it did.It's as obvious as a tattoo on your forehead: You need therapy, and you should not be allowed anywhere near children until you get it.

This post is harsh.Some people just get trapped in emotional states so don't deal with emotional realities head on.I wouldn't make such strong assumptions on someone.

 

[SageTree]

Page 5

Well alright then, I'm not going to convince you otherwise as I'm sure your own life experiences have brought you to this conclusion for one reason or another.


Trauma is a spectrum of things in my mind and each person has their own level of tolerance.

I grew up in an aggressive and abusive household, and I have my own biases because of that.

I think the most practical advice I ever ready for 'spanking' is "It's ok to spank when you aren't mad".....

The problem with the type actions in that video, to me, are that they are in an utter, hateful rage and there seems to be soooo much ego tied up in their actions....

I stand by what I think, that is abuse, and abuse is a spectrum, it's not a black and white topic to me.


Would you ever hit a child with a belt like that?
Or HAVE you ever been hit with a belt like that?

 

[Manfred]

Wasn't harsh at all. It's just the way that person feels.

Trauma is a spectrum of things in my mind and each person has their own level of tolerance.

Completely agree with you.

 

[SageTree]

In that case your opinion is just as valid as her's and thus she has the right to seek justice, for abuse, in a court of law, and hopefully she gets a fair trial because of Dad's position.

 

[Alceste]

This post is harsh.Some people just get trapped in emotional states so don't deal with emotional realities head on.I wouldn't make such strong assumptions on someone. Kind of reminds me of the video itself were people just want to beat someone down until they get their satisfaction in.

Maybe it is harsh, but it has to be said. I'm not one to beat around the bush. If I heard any adult stating "it is OK to whip a child with a belt" I would take every possible measure to ensure that adult had absolutely no contact with any children in my community. An adult who holds such an opinion is not just incorrect, they're dangerous. Just as a cautious woman should keep her distance from guys who don't believe in "date rape", a cautious community keeps their children away from guys who think physical violence against children is a "normal" form of discipline.

 

[ChristineES]

Usually I can accept that people have an opinion is different than mine, but when someone watches that video and sees it as a simple spanking makes me wonder if he/she would do the same to his/her child. Sometimes people don't see serious abuse as abuse and that is sad. It wasn't just the whipping itself, but the fact he said, at one point "I am going to f------ beat you into submission!" That line makes me wonder if he ever hit his wife or not, as well.

 

[SageTree]

No doubt 'beat into submission' sounds a little headier than 'spank'.


Sad fact is that the abusers have usually been abused themselves and are just continuing the chain.

People become what they are.... to me, even though it's hard, there is reason for compassion towards the abusers as well.

 

[Alceste]

Usually I can accept that people have an opinion is different than mine, but when someone watches that video and sees it as a simple spanking makes me wonder if he/she would do the same to his/her child. Sometimes people don't see serious abuse as abuse and that is sad. It wasn't just the whipping itself, but the fact he said, at one point "I am going to f------ beat you into submission!" That line makes me wonder if he ever hit his wife or not, as well.

She claims he was abusive and controlling toward her too, but I'm skeptical:

Hallie Adams Speaks Out About Beating | Corpus Christi, TX | KRISTV.com |

I give her credit for leaving the marriage and reacting like a normal human being to the video with tearful and continuous apologies to the daughter, but she's a grown woman. She should take more responsibility for her own choices rather than blaming her husband for everything. Even when we live with a bully, it's our own choice whether or not to obey.

 

[Manfred]

Usually I can accept that people have an opinion is different than mine, but when someone watches that video and sees it as a simple spanking makes me wonder if he/she would do the same to his/her child. Sometimes people don't see serious abuse as abuse and that is sad. It wasn't just the whipping itself, but the fact he said, at one point "I am going to f------ beat you into submission!" That line makes me wonder if he ever hit his wife or not, as well.

And I've clearly stated my thoughts on the verbal aspect of it.

date rape...cautious community keeps their children away from guys who think physical violence against children is a "normal" form of discipline.

 

[Walkntune]

Maybe it is harsh, but it has to be said. I'm not one to beat around the bush. If I heard any adult stating "it is OK to whip a child with a belt" I would take every possible measure to ensure that adult had absolutely no contact with any children in my community. An adult who holds such an opinion is not just incorrect, they're dangerous. Just as a cautious woman should keep her distance from guys who don't believe in "date rape", a cautious community keeps their children away from guys who think physical violence against children is a "normal" form of discipline.

I happen to believe that spanking a child can be good as long as it deosn't reach outside of the boundaries of love into that of control.On this notion I believe those who don't discipline their children are very abusive and turn children who were seeking the love of discipline from their parents into an act of rebellion for the attention out in society when they grow up for this is the only form of attention and love they know.

 

[Skwim]

Usually I can accept that people have an opinion is different than mine, but when someone watches that video and sees it as a simple spanking makes me wonder if he/she would do the same to his/her child.

Why wouldn't they. If an action is deemed a harmless, permissible correction it's a good bet that if the situation arose it would most certainly be used. I don't doubt for a minute that Manfred would beat his children with a belt if he felt they needed to be "taught a lesson."

 

[Alceste]

I happen to believe that spanking a child can be good as long as it deosn't reach outside of the boundaries of love into that of control.On this notion I believe those who don't discipline their children are very abusive and turn children who were seeking the love of discipline from their parents into an act of rebellion for the attention out in society when they grow up for this is the only form of attention and love they know.

Are you implying that physical violence is the only possible form of child discipline?

As a teacher and a nanny, I can assure you it ain't so. How do you think teachers are able to manage 30 children at a time all day long without laying a hand on them?

 

[Majikthise]

I happen to believe that spanking a child can be good as long as it deosn't reach outside of the boundaries of love into that of control.On this notion I believe those who don't discipline their children are very abusive and turn children who were seeking the love of discipline from their parents into an act of rebellion for the attention out in society when they grow up for this is the only form of attention and love they know.

I completely agree with this. There is an extreme where parents don't care or are afraid to use any form of discipline and this also constitutes abuse.

 

[SageTree]

The Mother very well could have been protecting herself by participating, idk?

What I DO know, is that IF you are going to discipline, then it ought to be when it happens and sure,swift, consistent, mechanical, without rage...

That is how you 'train' in the animal world and the same psychology applies to humans.

Punishment-Reward System.

Now lets say that hitting with a belt is somehow 'Fair' in that it's carried out with logic and restraint.

The credit I'll give the Mom is she says basically, I want one lash on your behind, turn over, take it and that'll be it.... rather than whipping her until she complies with the initial request.... that is only punishing someone for two things at once, and that is NOT effective psychology.....


I don't think it's right.... Don't get me wrong....

But at least Mom exhibited some integrity in a BAD situation and also kept the belt out of Dad's hands for a while.....


So talking outside of 'right and wrong' I feel psychologically, if you are going to punish with a hit, then it should be clinical at least.

 

[Alceste]

Why wouldn't they. If an action is deemed a harmless, permissible correction it's a good bet that if the situation arose it would most certainly be used. I don't doubt for a minute that Manfred would beat his children with a belt if he felt they needed to be "taught a lesson."

Or your children.

His attitude is indistinguishable from those of the judge "Meh - it's no big deal. I don't see what all the fuss is about - the video makes it look worse than it really is..." etc.

It's a VIDEO. How can it possibly make things look worse than they really were?

 

[Majikthise]

Are you implying that physical violence is the only possible form of child discipline?

As a teacher and a nanny, I can assure you it ain't so. How do you think teachers are able to manage 30 children at a time all day long without laying a hand on them?

No he's not. He's saying there are extremes to both veiws.

I work in a high school. Teachers have a hell of a time controlling some of these kids. These kids can be very disrespectful and abusive in their own right.