Views on Islam?

[Theweirdtophat]

And fyi this is the Sikhism DIR, if you want to love Islam go on their DIR don't spread lies about Guru Nanak Dev ji and Islam being peaceful or whatever here.

(Bhai Bhala’s Janam Sakhi p.14)

Recite the Kalma of the Creator adding to it the name of Muhammad.
Who is the beloved of God by dedication of his very self to Allah

This is what guru Nanak had supposedly said but who knows. Either way he as well as others respected Islam and other faiths. Even Sikhs today respect other faiths and believe all faiths lead to god. You say violent stuff isn't written in your text. So what? That doesn't mean that there will never be Sikh extremists or radicals and by the way, there have been before. Just because it's not in the book doesn't mean the idea of a Sikh radical is impossible. To honestly believe there are no violent sikhs just because violence is not in the book is rather arrogant. There are extremists in all religions and Sikhism is no exception. You don't seem to be tolerant of other faiths despite having a Muslim friend. Have you forgotten other Muslim countries like Egypt, Nigeria, chad, Jordan ect are out fighting Isis and boko haram? What more proof do you need? Sikhs are known to be tolerant, yet you seem rather narrow minded and intolerant. Really, you have no reason to be on this forum if you can't let go of the past.

FYI, don't double post. It's not neccesary.

 

[Treks]

Guru Nanak Sahib Ji wrote a lot against the practices of Islam in his Gurbani. Actually, it's probably more appropriate to say he wrote a lot against hollow religious practices in general. He even bucked the system, pointing his feet at the Ka'aba to prove a point.

 

[Satnaam]

All Sikh scholars agree that the Bhai Bala Janam Sakhi is unauthentic.

What Guru thought he wrote in the Guru Granth Sahib.

The whole of Islam and Muhammads religion is blasted in the GGS. Circumcision is criticised, so are the 5 prayers, halal, Hajj and what not.

 

[Satnaam]

Sikh philosophy is not violent unlike abrahamic religions. A violent philosophy will lead to more violence than a non violent one, its no rocket science. Sikhi doesn't say all religions lead to god because who defines what religion goes to god and what not? So sects who believe in satanic things and hurting people also go to god? Nah, don't misconstruct my religion Sikhi and pretend to know it better than myself. Whats wrong in hating a violent ideology? I'm not calling for violence against Muslims, I am just criticising Islam the way I would criticise Nazism.

There are good Muslims and bad Muslims. Humans are not reflective of the religion per se. Same in every other religion, good & bad. I am talking about ideology, Islam is a flawed path which promotes violence since 1400 years. End off

 

[Satnaam]

Treks I am still waiting for the reply regarding criticising Halal meat but still consuming it

 

[Quagmire]

***Thread Moved to Religious Debates***​

 

[Treks]

Treks I am still waiting for the reply regarding criticising Halal meat but still consuming it

The are not criticising halal meat; they are criticising the misguided thought process around ritualistic practices. Tell me, what is inherently bad about eating this kind of meat?

I have no doubt that those same criticisms could be re-worded for a whole lot of modern Sikh practices today.

 

[Treks]

What Guru thought he wrote in the Guru Granth Sahib.

And yet Sikhs follow so much more than the Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

 

[icehorse]

I think the Quran promotes theocracy, intolerance, misogyny, antisemitism, homophobia, violence, and a general "Muslims vs. the World" worldview. Given that Islam is a set of ideas primarily codified by the Quran, I think Islam must be reformed.

As for Muslims, a significant minority of them appear to take the scripture quite seriously, and that's a problem. As for the majority of Muslims who somehow find a more peaceful and tolerant approach, hooray! But I must say that I find it off putting to be asked to assume that a person who claims to value the Quran is a peaceful person. That is an incongruous set of claims and it's not surprising that it causes mistrust.

 

[Ashraf]

I think the Quran promotes theocracy, intolerance, misogyny, antisemitism, homophobia, violence, and a general "Muslims vs. the World" worldview. Given that Islam is a set of ideas primarily codified by the Quran, I think Islam must be reformed.

As for Muslims, a significant minority of them appear to take the scripture quite seriously, and that's a problem. As for the majority of Muslims who somehow find a more peaceful and tolerant approach, hooray! But I must say that I find it off putting to be asked to assume that a person who claims to value the Quran is a peaceful person. That is an incongruous set of claims and it's not surprising that it causes mistrust.

Yet we see that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and will bypass Christianity in terms of number of adherents by 2050? Don't you see that there is something wrong with this picture?

 

[Treks]

Yet we see that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and will bypass Christianity in terms of number of adherents by 2050? Don't you see that there is something wrong with this picture?

Clearly!!!

Most popular doesn't necessarily mean best. Look at the iPhone, for example.

 

[Ashraf]

Clearly!!!

Most popular doesn't necessarily mean best. Look at the iPhone, for example.

What is wrong with iPhone?

and by the way,
Samsung Galaxy stinks !

 

[Satnaam]

Nazism was also pretty popular once upon a time too, Ashraf.

And Islam growing fastest is a myth.

- More than half of converts to Islam leave it within a few years.
- Many Iranians and Africans are leaving Islam for Zoroastrism and Christianity (millions a year).

Your own Mullah admitting that many Iranians are leaving Islam for Zoroastrism:

 

[Satnaam]

Trek, you can claim all you want that Halal is not condemned won't change the dozens of tuks condemning it. Tommorow you will come and say idol worship is also not forbidden, its only the thought process lol.

When a Rehatnama claims something, take it with a pinch of salt. When Gurbani is corroborated with several Rehatnamas, then there is something to keep in mind.

 

[Treks]

Dozens of tuks? I must have missed them.

I know very well that (initiated) Sikhs don't eat halal slaughtered meat. I have no qualms about that. The reason Sikhs don't eat halal slaughtered meat is because of an instruction from Guru Gobind Singh during times of war with invading Muslims/Moghuls. Would you eat your enemy's meat? It was rebellion and standing up for the freedom to NOT be forced to eat halal slaughtered meat.

Gurbani is about changing ones perspective. It is not a scripture listing time-bound do's and don'ts. It challenges everyone to think about what they're doing. Not eating halal slaughtered meat simply because it is "halal slaughtered meat" is faulty thinking. Refusing to eat langar prepared by non-Khalsa Sikhs falls into exactly the same category.

Guru Sahib does not treat his Sikhs like children, and his Gurbani reflects that. He knows we have brains and encourages us (everyone) to use them. I personally picture him standing at a Muslim slaughter place and saying some thing like (and this is my personal thinking, I am not trying to put words in Guru Sahib's mouth): "You think muttering some words, facing a certain direction and slicing the throat in a particular way somehow makes the meat clean and you are somehow magically absolved of the pollution of killing it and the meat is somehow 'changed' so you can eat it? You are doing it mechanically and your mind is still not attached to the Naam. It is useless and futile. Make good thoughts your prayer, virtues the direction you face, and slice your own throat if you want to be pure." The 'slice your own throat' reference would be to giving up your haumai.

Guru Sahib in his Gurbani takes examples from the culture around him and makes points with them. The points Guru Sahib makes can be applied universally across situations forever - they are not time-bound Do's and Don'ts that lose meaning as times change. It is simply brilliant. We should constantly think about what we're doing.

Do you see the difference?

Gurbani clearly and plainly states the futility of worshipping with idols. It will not help you. So why bother. But the exact same thought process can be applied to all the Sikhs who worship the pictures of Guru Sahiban, the historical places they have been, and fall into all other sorts of futile ritual.

(omg I think I'm talking myself back into Sikhi!)

 

[JustWondering]

The new testament supported slavery and the Torah says that apostates should be killed as well. I think people are just finding excuses to hate Islam. Religions today aren't the same as they once were. This includes just about every religion.

Most every religion needs to go away in my opinion. Those that spout supernatural nonsense, anyway.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

Most every religion needs to go away in my opinion. Those that spout supernatural nonsense, anyway.

What do you consider supernatural nonsense? If religions went away it wouldn't matter. People would still fight each other because there has been violence long before organized religion.

 

[gsa]

Yet we see that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and will bypass Christianity in terms of number of adherents by 2050? Don't you see that there is something wrong with this picture?

That's what the projection is, such that projections can be made, today. But most of it is not conversion, but birth rate. All that says to me is that Christians and Christian-dominated regions are slowing their birth rates, while Muslim majority areas are holding steady or increasing them.

The religious status gaining the most "adherents" as such is "none," and the projections only have them losing ground because they also decline in birth rate. But again none of this tells us if the religion in question is correct, or desirable.

 

[Ashraf]

That's what the projection is, such that projections can be made, today. But most of it is not conversion, but birth rate. All that says to me is that Christians and Christian-dominated regions are slowing their birth rates, while Muslim majority areas are holding steady or increasing them.

The religious status gaining the most "adherents" as such is "none," and the projections only have them losing ground because they also decline in birth rate. But again none of this tells us if the religion in question is correct, or desirable.

Birth rate is a factor but the conversion to Islam is conquering many places of the world it has never reached before. And even during times of wars against Muslim nations, Islam is spreading like never before such as after the attacks of 9/11

 

[psychoslice]

I am sad to say that I feel nothing but sadness for Islam, it hasn't given me anything to show me that it is a religion of love, and that is all I can really say.