Vote For Romney = Vote for Satan

[SoyLeche]

Pollingreports.com got him at # 4 and the democratic nominees of Clinton and Obama are much higher in the ranks which leads me to believe with the short time left before 2008 he ain't gonna be it. The academic discussion though is cool to engage in.

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh08rep.htm

The short time???

Has there ever been an election where we even knew who the top candidates were this far out???

 

[Aqualung]

Where do you think we baptize all the corpses?

REVA. I mean, really, that was a loud laugh.

 

[robtex]

The short time???

Has there ever been an election where we even knew who the top candidates were this far out???

Isn't the election in nov ? Or am I confused?

 

[SoyLeche]

Isn't the election in nov ? Or am I confused?

NEXT November (Nov 2008)

 

[Angel A]

To bad a seperation of church and state doesn't really exist.

 

[SoyLeche]

REVA. I mean, really, that was a loud laugh.

You liked that one, huh?

 

[Aqualung]

You liked that one, huh?

Yeah. I really did. I should frubal you.

 

[Katzpur]

Well, I just sat and listened to the whole show all the way through (ff thru commercials ) and...wow. Huh. If LDS are a satanic cult then I don't have any doubt what he thinks about Wiccans.

Oh, but there's a big difference between us, Draka, and that difference somehow makes Wiccans less offensive than Mormons. At least you guys don't pretend to be Christians. Mormons, on the other hand, are wolves in sheeps' clothing. I think that's what bugs "real Christians."

That Keller guy just oozes Christian love doesn't he? I could feel the love here. I could smell the love. Oh, nevermind, it's just the litterbox...it needs changed.

LOL! Actually, I've never heard of him before, but my first impression is that he may do us more good than harm.

 

[NomyRomy]

Get out your blood pressure medication. This guy Bill Keller is a kook and he makes all Evangelicals look bad.

http://www.liveprayer.com/fox1.cfm

An opinion for ya Jonny, although Keller is a complete idiot, he does make some valid points. The LDS member that is defending it doesn't do a whole lot of good to help their image. He does kinda skirt around ansering those questions correctly. He tells just enough about the truth to make it sound good. Example: We believe we can become like chirst. The whole statement is "If we are good enough Mormons we can possibly be God of our own world somewhere in the unierse". Why not tell the whole truth? There were many of these half truths. If mormons wouldn't try to hide thier true beliefs so much, they might be able to loose their cult like image. Maybe. That or it would scare any new prospects from joining the church.
http://www.erosblog.com/sex-blog-pictures/special-mormon-underware.jpg

 

[Katzpur]

An opinion for ya Jonny, although Keller is a complete idiot, he does make some valid points. The LDS member that is defending it doesn't do a whole lot of good to help their image. He does kinda skirt around ansering those questions correctly. He tells just enough about the truth to make it sound good. Example: We believe we can become like chirst. The whole statement is "If we are good enough Mormons we can possibly be God of our own world somewhere in the unierse".

Where on earth did you get the "whole statement"? Did you find it on the Church's official website, in the LDS scriptures, or did you hear it taught in an LDS worship service?

Why not tell the whole truth? There were many of these half truths.

Nona, the whole truth is that you don't know what the whole truth is. What would we stand to gain from telling half truths? I'll tell you who is telling the half truths: the people who simply cannot let us state our own beliefs and who insist on interpreting our doctrine for us. Many of these people are quite literally professional anti-Mormons. They have made a career out of trying to discredit our beliefs. And most of them claim to be Christians. Any of these individuals who truly believes himself to be in God's service really needs to ask himself how God would feel about deceitful and manipulative misrepresentation on His behalf.

If mormons wouldn't try to hide thier true beliefs so much, they might be able to loose their cult like image. Maybe. That or it would scare any new prospects from joining the church.

There are very, very few LDS teachings that are not 100% open to public scrutiny. It is nothing short of blatent dishonesty to suggest that we hide our true beliefs. With the exception of our temple ceremonies, absolutely everything in which we believe is open to discussion. We are honest about our doctrines. It would be pointless for us to be otherwise. As to scaring away prospective converts, you obviously must take most people for pretty big suckers. Two thirds of our 12 million plus membership is comprised of first generation converts. To imply that 8 million people simply haven't yet been let into the deep dark secrets about what their Church really believes is preposterous and insulting.

 

[DeepShadow]

Example: We believe we can become like chirst. The whole statement is "If we are good enough Mormons we can possibly be God of our own world somewhere in the unierse". Why not tell the whole truth?

ROTFL!!

Tell me, where does this "whole statement" come from, because it's not LDS doctrine.

If by "half truth" you mean "he sticks to LDS doctrine and doesn't embrace rampant speculation" then I'll stick with half the truth, thanks.

 

[DeepShadow]

To bad a seperation of church and state doesn't really exist.

Explain?

 

[des]

I guess NASA is getting looser about such things. Back in the day, they got very upset when Carpenter, I think, smuggled a corned beef sandwich aboard a Gemini flight.
I am dubious of any undergarment protection. If he would have been
on Challenger, which launched outside safe launch perimeters he would have died too.
Instead he launched on another flight.

However, that said, I think white is better than a cilice!? I am not really enthusiastic about them. ;-)

--des

I also spoke with an astronaut who is a member of the church and he mentioned that it was really difficult to get permission to wear his temple garments into space. Eventually, NASA allowed him to do so and he was grateful. He believes, as some members of the church do, that they provided him some physical and spiritual protection. The shuttle he went up in, the Challenger, exploded on its next mission.

 

[Bishka]

Why are we discussing underwear? To be short and simple, it is a reminder of sacred covenants we have made to our Father in Heaven, why can't people leave it alone? I don't see anyone discussing Jewish yarmulkes or prayer shawls, or Muslim holy items that are worn, why does this have to be discussed?

 

[des]

Everybody LOVES to talk about underwear!!

--des

Why are we discussing underwear? To be short and simple, it is a reminder of sacred covenants we have made to our Father in Heaven, why can't people leave it alone? I don't see anyone discussing Jewish yarmulkes or prayer shawls, or Muslim holy items that are worn, why does this have to be discussed?

 

[jonny]

The temples have basements?

They sure do. There is usually a cafeteria in them. I guess that is where we do all of our plotting!!!

 

[jonny]

I can't resist posting the email that Keller sent to me last year. He had spewed some anti-Mormon garbage and I had emailed him to correct him. This was his response (edited...)

hey...why don't you stop by my office..I am there every day..funny..gutless wonders like you talk big hiding behind your computer like the punk coward you are..but face to face..you quiver and shrivel up like your tiny penis..go back to what you do best..kiddy p*rn....p****!!.

I've read a couple of other emails from him online, and they are all pretty similar (I wonder if this is one of the form emails he sends out). Yeah, so I'm a little bit baised against the man. I don't think he's misinformed. I think he is a hatemonger.

 

[jonny]

There are very, very few LDS teachings that are not 100% open to public scrutiny. It is nothing short of blatent dishonesty to suggest that we hide our true beliefs. With the exception of our temple ceremonies, absolutely everything in which we believe is open to discussion.

Even these are not secret. You just won't find them discussed openly by members of the church except in the temples. I know I keep referring back to this discussion, but I really believe that Bushman hit things right on the head.

This goes along with this "secret life" of Mormons. Sally, you were referring to that earlier. What do they do when it comes down to it? Do they shun people and beat them up and so on? That has always been part of the story of Mormonism – you know, the "hidden horrors" of Mormonism – these advanced doctrines, and then the temple, because Mormons insist on saying it's sacred, not secret – but it is secret. Mormons do not talk about what goes on in the temple outside the temple, even to each other. Inside the temple they will talk about it, but not outside. There will be glancing allusions, but never a full-fledged description.

The way I put it comes out of a conference we held when the Manhattan Temple was dedicated in 2004. We wanted to have a scholarly conference to mark that occasion, so we got Jonathan Z. Smith, a very distinguished scholar of ancient religion, and others to come, and we talked about it. Smith talked about how we call this a sacred space. How do you define a sacred space?

That's a very interesting question: How do you create a sacred space? The theme of the conference was, how do you do it in the modern city, where there are all sorts of groups? Just like time is set aside on the Sabbath devoted to God, can you have space set aside that's devoted to God? Mormons have become very good at that. Before you can go to the temple, you can't simply be a member of the church. You have to see your bishop. Every two years you have to talk with your bishop who will ask you a set of questions. Are you committing adultery? Are you honest in your dealings with people? Do you believe in God and Christ? And so on down the list. It's a worthiness interview, and you have to have a recommend to get past the front door of the temple. Once you get past that door, you immediately go to a changing room where you shed your outer clothes and put on special white clothing. In the temple you speak in whispers. You don't speak aloud. And then outside the temple you don't talk about it at all. Some people think of this as secretive in the sense of hiding things. But for Mormons, it's all part of the process of creating a sacred space. When you walk in there, life is different. You just feel things are on a different plane.

When you come out, it's not usually an overwhelming vision you have experienced, but you feel elevated. It becomes very important for Mormons to go into that space, just like practicing the Sabbath, keeping it holy, has an exalting effect on human life. So that's the way I look at the temple ceremonies.

Mormons know you can go online, get every last word of the temple ceremony. It's all there. So it's not like it's hidden from the world. Anybody can get it. But among us, we don't talk about it that way. It means something to us. It means a lot.

And this is why Mormons are horribly offended when people mock our temple cermonies or post pictures of our sacred clothing online so that it can be ridiculed.

 

[FFH]

I guess the military is kind of touchy about the uniforms all matching and what you wear under them. My mission president was in charge of the army chaplains in the pentagon and worked hard with the church to get them to make the military garments. It was important to him that members of the church serving in the military be able to wear garments under their uniform.

The miltiary was upset about the garments showing outside the shirt colar...which they tend to do...I have to wear a t-shirt backwards or else my garments will show at work...

The neck line is higher in the back than in the front so it covers the garment no matter what..

I remember a case very vividly where a man in military uniform could not help the garments from showing outside the colar and he was told to take them off if they showed like they did...

I don't have a link to the case, but it was discussed just under a year ago..

I also spoke with an astronaut who is a member of the church and he mentioned that it was really difficult to get permission to wear his temple garments into space. Eventually, NASA allowed him to do so and he was grateful. He believes, as some members of the church do, that they provided him some physical and spiritual protection. The shuttle he went up in, the Challenger, exploded on its next mission.

Great story !!!!

 

[jonny]

The astronaut was Don Lind. He was in the temple presidency for the Portland Temple when I went through and received my Endowments. He was the guy who talked with me before going through the ceremonies to answer my questions.