War: the Pope says that mankind is in danger; strive for peace

[mikkel_the_dane]

I don't know how you explain it, as for the specific case, so ...

Putin want the war, because he wanted to remake the Russian Empire. We in the West help Ukraine, because we feel with them and are on their side. I doubt you believe that, but let us see.

 

[The Hammer]

That's because nature works that way. Survival of the fittest.

Eh... Kind of. We can always choose better options. Unless there is no other solution.

 

[metis]

Let us reject war as instrument of getting peace. It is impossible. Peace is achieved through peace only.

Maybe we should start with Vladimir Putin.

 

[Estro Felino]

Putin want the war, because he wanted to remake the Russian Empire. We in the West help Ukraine, because we feel with them and are on their side. I doubt you believe that, but let us see.

What do you mean by helping them?
We help them by welcoming both Ukrainian refugees and Russian deserters.
But not by sending weapons or by actively sending armies.
If Denmark wants to fight this war, she is free to do it.

But if you guys think Italy will be dragged into this atrocious gibbitude, I guess you are all terribly mistaken.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

What do you mean by helping them?
We help them by welcoming both Ukrainian refugees and Russian deserters.
But not by sending weapons or by actively sending armies.
If Denmark wants to fight this war, she is free to do it.

But if you guys think Italy will be dragged into this atrocious gibbitude, I guess you are all terribly mistaken.

Well, we didn't agree.

 

[Estro Felino]

Well, we didn't agree.

So is Denmark disposed to send its troops to fight the Russians in the steppe?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

So is Denmark disposed to send its troops to fight the Russians in the steppe?

Well, that depends on a lot of factors, but currently that is not the case and in all likelihood it wouldn't happen like that.
You are asking a loaded question and framing it in a certain way.

Here is what could happen, which could involve Denmark. There is no Nato response from Nato territory and Nato troops, but there is an influx of Nato hardware and organized volunteers and the fight starts to involve the Russian border area more.

 

[Estro Felino]

Well, that depends on a lot of factors, but currently that is not the case and in all likelihood it wouldn't happen like that.
You are asking a loaded question and framing it in a certain way.

Here is what could happen, which could involve Denmark. There is no Nato response from Nato territory and Nato troops, but there is an influx of Nato hardware and organized volunteers and the fight starts to involve the Russian border area more.

If the NATO thinks my country will send troops to a war instigated by shady élites, they are quite delusional.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

If the NATO thinks my country will send troops for a war instigated by shady élites, they are quite delusional.

Yeah, Putin and his ilk are shady elites.
And on this, we don't agree. You have your worldview and I have mine.

 

[vulcanlogician]

That's because nature works that way. Survival of the fittest.

Fitness in surviving doesn't ONLY involve an organism overcoming it's rivals through violence. (Although, admittedly, that sometimes is the case.)

"Fitness" may also refer to an organism's ability to evade or avert violence. Sometimes it involves camouflage or a plethora of other tools that confuse or incapacitate predators.

If we humans really are fit enough to survive, then maybe that might involve our rational peace-seeking capacities to overcome existential threats.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Fitness in surviving doesn't ONLY involve an organism overcoming it's rivals through violence. (Although, admittedly, that sometimes is the case.)

"Fitness" may also refer to an organism's ability to evade or avert violence. Sometimes it involves camouflage or a plethora of other tools that confuse or incapacitate predators.

If we humans really are fit enough to survive, then maybe that might involve our rational peace-seeking capacities to overcome existential threats.

That is not what fitness is really about in the end. It is a part of it, but the common factor is energy and material to continue the reproduction of the genome.
You and I are in that nothing but a part of series of reproduction of genome with variations/mutations.

 

[Estro Felino]

Yeah, Putin and his ilk are shady elites.
And on this, we don't agree. You have your worldview and I have mine.

The truth is that these shady stateless elites are lawless. So they use war to impose their will.
In an international penal courtroom they are helpless , because they can say nothing and they cannot defend themselves in front of the numerous pieces of evidence that prove who started all this. Who did what, who said what, and in what year.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The truth is that these shady stateless elites are lawless. So they use war to impose their will.
In a penal international courtroom they are as helpless, because they can say nothing and they cannot defend themselves in front of the numerous evidence that prove who started all this. Who did what, who said what, and in what year.

Yeah, we were all tricked including Putin. It is all a big fraud. I don't believe that.

 

[Valjean]

Freedom isn't free. It must be fought for.

Freedom is inborn. People choose to dehumanize other groups and do them harm.

Unfortunately, it's deep in our nature. Chimps share the same proclivity, but human technology has multiplied our destructive capabilities ability out of all proportion.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Freedom is inborn. People choose to dehumanize other groups and do them harm.

Unfortunately, it's deep in our nature. Chimps share the same proclivity, but human technology has multiplied our destructive capabilities ability out of all proportion.

You have no freedom as you. You have abilities. Freedom is social construct.

 

[The Hammer]

Freedom is inborn. People choose to dehumanize other groups and do them harm.

Unfortunately, it's deep in our nature. Chimps share the same proclivity, but human technology has multiplied our destructive capabilities ability out of all proportion.

Yes, and when another tribe invades another tribes area unprovoked (like Russia did to Ukraine), jeopardizing their freedom, fighting is necessary.

 

[Estro Felino]

Yeah, we were all tricked including Putin. It is all a big fraud. I don't believe that.

I think there are juridical instruments to settle international disputes.
If certain leaders want to use tanks and guns to enrich the tycoons of warfare industry, it's their choice.
But conflict of interests is not allowed within the European Union.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I think there are juridical instruments to settle international disputes.
If certain leaders want to use tanks and guns to enrich the tycoons of warfare industry, it's their choice.
But conflict of interests is not allowed within the European Union.

So Putin really didn't have a hand in this war? It has nothing to do with his worldview, right?

 

[Estro Felino]

So Putin really didn't have a hand in this war? It has nothing to do with his worldview, right?

Does the world know what the Kiev government did from 2015 to 2021 in the territory of Donbas?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Does the world know what the Kiev government did from 2015 to 2021 in the territory of Donbas?

Yes, I know what you believe in. I don't believe in that.