Warning! Sensitive content! Proceed with caution!

[Photonic]

The point is, however, that all societies are barbaric by the standards of other societies.

All societies will be barbaric and frowned upon in the future anyways.

 

[Riverwolf]

All societies will be barbaric and frowned upon in the future anyways.

After all, we *gasp* procreate!

 

[Valjean]

I find it disturbing that some people would actually suggest that the rape of a child is actually okay as long as it's a social norm, which totally ignores the actual effect of an action, which is what it should truly be judged by. Why then do we pretend care about oppression and abuse, such as a state executing homosexuals, or human trafficking and sexual slavery, etc. when they're often accepted social norms in parts of the world?
Also, if a man is supposedly holy and acts upon god's will, then shouldn't their standards be righteous, just and supersede the social norms of primitive savages, maybe?

What traumatizes us is largely what we're taught to be traumatized by.

 

[Father Heathen]

What traumatizes us is largely what we're taught to be traumatized by.

So if someone is victimized or brutalized, they just need to get over it because it's all in their head, right?

I want to see you tell that to someone who has been physically or sexually abused. Go on.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Entirely irrelevant; and that's precisely my point. Year or culture doesn't magically change the impact that sexual abuse/exploitation has upon a child emotionally and psychologically.

The interesting thing about psychology is, is that there are many things that only apply to certain groups, or are hardly ever found outside of certain groups. Anorexia for example is hardly found outside of groups that haven't accepted the western view of thin = attractive. Many phobias are culturally based. Certain forms of psychosis are only found in certain tribes. And even what is considered to be tragic and harmful can depend on culture.

 

[Father Heathen]

The point is, however, that all societies are barbaric by the standards of other societies.

Regardless, to excuse oppression, exploitation, subjugation, abuse and brutality just because the culture condones it is downright repulsive.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So if someone is victimized or brutalized, they just need to get over it because it's all in their head, right?

I want to see you tell that to someone who has been physically or sexually abused. Go on.

That's not what's being said. Many people here are scarred of insects, but in some cultures it's a sexual fetish to let them crawl on your genitals. Many people in our society would be traumatized to witness the human sacrifice done by the Aztecs. The case in ancient Greece was it was viewed as being critical to their development. The boys probably would have left out if they didn't get to go through with this right of passage. Humans are very interesting like that.

 

[no-body]

Context of the times, you can't judge the past by today's standards. It's easy to say it was wrong and they shouldn't have done it. Many brilliant people in history where screwed up in other aspects of their life.

Of course what this is really about is Mohammed being a prophet and giving us laws to live by. If you're going to give people a black and white standard rigid morality, then you are open for attack from any time period.

 

[Photonic]

Context of the times, you can't judge the past by today's standards. It's easy to say it was wrong and they shouldn't have done it. Many brilliant people in history where screwed up in other aspects of their life.

Of course what this is really about is Mohammed being a prophet and giving us laws to live by. If you're going to give people a black and white standard rigid morality, then you are open for attack from any time period.

After all, isn't hindsight always 20/20?

 

[Father Heathen]

Context of the times, you can't judge the past by today's standards. It's easy to say it was wrong and they shouldn't have done it. Many brilliant people in history where screwed up in other aspects of their life.

Of course what this is really about is Mohammed being a prophet and giving us laws to live by. If you're going to give people a black and white standard rigid morality, then you are open for attack from any time period.

Again, if a man has the guidance of GOD, shouldn't his standards be timeless and far surpass that of the human culture of that particular time period? Surely god would have the foresight to see that ******* kids is bad PR.

 

[Valjean]

As un-PC as this may sound, SW, I think a lot of what psychologically traumatizes us is what society teaches us and expects us to be traumatized by. Why are we less traumatized by an assault or robbery than a sexual assault that leaves us neither physically nor economically harmed?
I suspect that in a culture like, say, ancient Sparta, where man-boy liaisons were the norm, it wouldn't occur to a child that he was being grievously violated. At worst it might be a momentary annoyance.

 

[Father Heathen]

As un-PC as this may sound, SW, I think a lot of what psychologically traumatizes us is what society teaches us and expects us to be traumatized by. Why are we less traumatized by an assault or robbery than a sexual assault that leaves us neither physically nor economically harmed?

I'm afraid I can no longer respect you or take you seriously anymore.

 

[no-body]

Again, if a man has the guidance of GOD, shouldn't his standards be timeless and far surpass that of the human culture of that particular time period? Surely god would have the foresight to see that ******* kids is bad PR.

They get around this by saying that the culture "wasn't ready" of course if God's final messenger wasn't ready to not f a kid what chance does a normal person have.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I think attempting to rationalize or excuse pedophilia says more about the people expressing such things than it does about a vague, theoretical person and situation from the distant past.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I have seen some discussions that interpret her age not to be her physical age, but her "years as a Muslim", though, and that her age was probably closer to 18.

And people ignore this fact because they would prefer to demonise a whole religion and justify their prejudice with very little facts.

 

[IsmailaGodHasHeard]

As un-PC as this may sound, SW, I think a lot of what psychologically traumatizes us is what society teaches us and expects us to be traumatized by. Why are we less traumatized by an assault or robbery than a sexual assault that leaves us neither physically nor economically harmed?
I suspect that in a culture like, say, ancient Sparta, where man-boy liaisons were the norm, it wouldn't occur to a child that he was being grievously violated. At worst it might be a momentary annoyance.

I was raped and that caused a great harm to me. How dare you minimize what people like me go through.

 

[YmirGF]

I was raped and that caused a great harm to me. How dare you minimize what people like me go through.

With all due respect, he isn't minimizing what you went through. He is stating a very logical viewpoint and one that needs to be heard. In some respects we are ALL the descendants of lechers and pedophiles. I see no reason to fault Mohammad for doing what was common in that era... or try to make excuses that he did not... When looking at the past one must, necessarily, remove the thinking of the present. If you don't you cannot appreciate aspects of life that prevailed due to projecting our accepted standards onto older "civilizations". Our morals and sense of morality was simply not theirs and it is foolish to assume otherwise.

 

[Photonic]

I was raped and that caused a great harm to me. How dare you minimize what people like me go through.

You may not understand it or you may be justifiably biased, but society is what dictates moral values. If you had lived back then and been raped, it's likely you would have married your rapist.

He isn't minimizing "people like you." He's just stating fact.

Also I found something interesting that should be noted.

Accusation of adultery
In the event Aisha was missing her necklace on a return from an expedition. She left her litter to find it, but got lost and the caravan left without her. She was waiting to be rescued and fell asleep. She was found the next morning by a young nomad named Safwan who brought her back to Medina. Rumors started about infidelity and Muhammad consulted some of his followers, among others Ali, who advised Muhammad that he should divorce Aisha.[16] Muhammad's adopted son Zayd ibn Harithah defended Aisha's reputation. Shortly after this a revelation solved the problem, Muhammad announced that he had received a revelation from God confirming Aisha's innocence and directing that charges of adultery be supported by four eyewitnesses.[17][Third-party source needed] These verses also rebuked Aisha's accusers,[18][Third-party source needed] whom Muhammad ordered to receive forty lashes.[19][20]

I find it interesting for him to have such a revelation solving all problems in such a manner?

 

[Riverwolf]

Regardless, to excuse oppression, exploitation, subjugation, abuse and brutality just because the culture condones it is downright repulsive.

For the most part, I agree, though I'm more forgiving of it when the people responsible are already dead.

And yet none of that is being demonstrated here.

 

[Riverwolf]

Again, if a man has the guidance of GOD, shouldn't his standards be timeless and far surpass that of the human culture of that particular time period? Surely god would have the foresight to see that ******* kids is bad PR.

Because all cultures are barbaric to other cultures, this is not possible.