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[YmirGF]

Regardless, to excuse oppression, exploitation, subjugation, abuse and brutality just because the culture condones it is downright repulsive.

Well, to be fair, you might also want to point the finger at your own ancestors too. The past is not as pretty a place as many would like to believe.

 

[Riverwolf]

Well, to be fair, you might also want to point the finger at your own ancestors too. The past is not as pretty a place as many would like to believe.

My ancestors actually were barbarians: the Celts. ^_^

 

[krsnaraja]

Ladies and gentlemen, I am going to address a rumor about Islam. This rumor is very nasty, and it needs to be put to rest. If at any time the Muslim community get offended, I will have the deleted. Okay, it is time to address the rumor. The rumor is that the Muslim Prophet Muhammad married Aisha when she was six years old and consummated that marriage when Aisha was nine years old. [/url]

Muslim Prophet Muhammad married Asia when she was X years old & consummated when Asia was X years old. That`s not pedophilia. We often times take a metaphor literally. This is my 2 cents worth reply to this thread.

 

[Father Heathen]

With all due respect, he isn't minimizing what you went through.

He said:

As un-PC as this may sound, SW, I think a lot of what psychologically traumatizes us is what society teaches us and expects us to be traumatized by. Why are we less traumatized by an assault or robbery than a sexual assault that leaves us neither physically nor economically harmed?

Which very much sounds like an attempt to downplay and trivialize rape to me.

 

[Father Heathen]

Well, to be fair, you might also want to point the finger at your own ancestors too. The past is not as pretty a place as many would like to believe.

Do you see me trying to excuse or justify any of the barbarous acts that my ancestors, who were indeed also primitive savages, did? Of course the past is what it is. I'm not the one trying to garnish it.

 

[Riverwolf]

Do you see me trying to excuse or justify any of the barbarous acts that my ancestors, who were indeed also primitive savages, did? Of course the past is what it is. I'm not the one trying to garnish it.

Nor is anyone else.

 

[Father Heathen]

And yet none of that is being demonstrated here.

Forcing a child into marriage and then raping her? (Let's not pretend a prepubescent can make informed consent regarding sex.)

 

[krsnaraja]

Do you see me trying to excuse or justify any of the barbarous acts that my ancestors, who were indeed also primitive savages, did? Of course the past is what it is. I'm not the one trying to garnish it.

Before you were primitive & barbarous. After several incarnations, are you still primitive & barbarous today? Well, I don`t think so.

 

[Father Heathen]

Nor is anyone else.

Then what was with all of the talk claiming that something is permissible as long as the culture finds it acceptable?

 

[Father Heathen]

Before you were primitive & barbarous. After several incarnations, are you still primitive & barbarous today? Well, I don`t think so.

...what?

 

[Riverwolf]

Forcing a child into marriage and then raping her? (Let's not pretend a prepubescent can make informed consent regarding sex.)

Why not? Maybe she entered puberty early. Happens sometimes.

Besides, rape is about consent. If consent was given, it's not rape. You might argue that coercion is a form of rape, but it's not quite the same thing, and if it was seen as normal for the time, it's unlikely that she would have had any problems. In fact, she very well may have felt wonderful that she is the Prophet's wife.

 

[Riverwolf]

Then what was with all of the talk claiming that something is permissible as long as the culture finds it acceptable?

Permissible? How can permission be granted or taken away from people who died hundreds of years ago?

 

[Riverwolf]

...what?

Bringing reincarnation into it. Basically, he's saying that you were those people back in the day.

Don't worry, I'll get him for you.

 

[Father Heathen]

Permissible? How can permission be granted or taken away from people who died hundreds of years ago?

What I mean is people today trying to claim that it's wrong to think something was repulsive if it happened to be a social norm.
The point I've been trying to get at is that ethics and morality should be based on effect and impact, not consensus.

 

[Father Heathen]

Bringing reincarnation into it. Basically, he's saying that you were those people back in the day.

Don't worry, I'll get him for you.

Okay, assuming reincarnation exists for the sake of argument, what would be the point he's trying to make?

 

[IsmailaGodHasHeard]

With all due respect, he isn't minimizing what you went through. He is stating a very logical viewpoint and one that needs to be heard. In some respects we are ALL the descendants of lechers and pedophiles. I see no reason to fault Mohammad for doing what was common in that era... or try to make excuses that he did not... When looking at the past one must, necessarily, remove the thinking of the present. If you don't you cannot appreciate aspects of life that prevailed due to projecting our accepted standards onto older "civilizations". Our morals and sense of morality was simply not theirs and it is foolish to assume otherwise.

How dare you defend him. He is minimizing rape.

 

[Riverwolf]

Okay, assuming reincarnation exists for the sake of argument, what would be the point he's trying to make?

That because you did these sorts of things in your previous lives, it's hypocritical to criticize them.

I'm sure you can see why I felt the need to bring Picard into this; our own facepalm smiley seemed inadequate.

 

[Riverwolf]

What I mean is people today trying to claim that it's wrong to think something was repulsive if it happened to be a social norm.
The point I've been trying to get at is that ethics and morality should be based on effect and impact, not consensus.

Thing is, we don't really know what the effect or impact was, but considering the fact that it was a completely different society than the one we live in, we can safely assume that it would have been completely different.

 

[Riverwolf]

How dare you defend him. He is minimizing rape.

How so?

 

[Photonic]

How dare you defend him. He is minimizing rape.

*sigh* He is not minimizing rape. You are just having a knee jerk reaction.