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[Skeptisch]

The hadith about Aisha married when he was seven was narrated by a man who learn a lot from his father which have been moved from Medina to Iran (Shia's territory). If you read Shia's view, it will say that they hate Aisha. I heard, this hadith was not even know by the people of Medina. But don't get me wrong, it's not the narrator that can't be trusted, the saying of the narrator's father was considered weak by Ulama' after he moved to Iran.

If it were not true that Mohammad had sex with his youngest wife, Aisha, daughter of Abu Bakr, when he was about 53 and she was only nine years old, would that not be a serious slander against Mohammad in the eyes of a true and believing Muslim?

 

[Riverwolf]

But we are dealing with a nine year old girl, are we not?

Apparently not. We're dealing most likely with a teenager.

 

[Riverwolf]

I don't know whether he banged a nine year old or not. And I don't really care. I assume anything written about him is highly suspect, so I doubt we know very much about the reality of whoever the Mohammed character in Islam is based on.

Once again, for those paying attention, my only argument is that adult men who want to have sex with nine year old girls are screwed up in the head. Period.

So, since you're not talking about Mohammad or Aisha, what, then, was the point of this random argument?

 

[Skeptisch]

So, since you're not talking about Mohammad or Aisha, what, then, was the point of this random argument?

“Once again, for those paying attention, my only argument is that adult men who want to have sex with nine year old girls are screwed up in the head. Period.”

That seems to be a pretty good argument.

 

[AhmadSyahir]

I used to have an issue with this part of Islam until I read about the life of people back then, in that area. Then I read about the context of their marriage. Aisha was very mature and I think she really did love him, as she continued to believe in Islam and even had a wonderful role, she taught a lot to others. Women could come to her for advice on subjects that made them shy. It doesn't sound to me that Aisha got traumatised by the experiance of being wed to Muhammad (PBUH).

Anyway, I do not have any issues with this and anyone who reads carefully the context and see how much joy and love there was between them would realise that it wasn't done against her will. On her age, many sites said that she was a teenager but there's no way to know for sure. All I need to know is that she was happy to be with him. It's a wonderful love story!

You're very good in understanding a situations
Well done.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

So, since you're not talking about Mohammad or Aisha, what, then, was the point of this random argument?

Protip: Reading for comprehension is key to understanding what somebody's point is. Always make an effort to read and understand what somebody is actually saying.

 

[Riverwolf]

“Once again, for those paying attention, my only argument is that adult men who want to have sex with nine year old girls are screwed up in the head. Period.”

That seems to be a pretty good argument.

But meaningless to this thread.

 

[Riverwolf]

Protip: Reading for comprehension is key to understanding what somebody's point is. Always make an effort to read and understand what somebody is actually saying.

And here's my protip: if someone doesn't understand what you're saying, for whatever reason, try to make the effort to help them understand.

You said that you don't know anything about Mohammad or Aisha, and that you suspect anything written about them. Okay, fair enough. You say that anyone wishing to have sex with little girls are messed up in the head, also fair enough.

But since you don't know anything about Mohammad, why do you make a random argument about people having sex with little girls?

 

[AhmadSyahir]

If it were not true that Mohammad had sex with his youngest wife, Aisha, daughter of Abu Bakr, when he was about 53 and she was only nine years old, would that not be a serious slander against Mohammad in the eyes of a true and believing Muslim?

You can blow your head to see how many hadith there are. I think, many Ulama' has overlooked on the matter since the narrator is highly trusted. Hadith was sort according to it's narrator. If many narrated the same hadith, the hadith will be strong. In this case, the hadith was narrated by highly trusted narrator but not to forget that he learn a lot from his father that moved from Medina to Iran. The narrator's father was less believed after he moved to Iran when he was 71 years old.

So, some consider it overlooked. I don't think we should get deep in the matter. Just view it on the surface. If Aisha is traumatised by the incident, he will not be a great muslim and protect her religion with her own life by joining the war. That's it. The rest of the story is in the knowledge of Allah.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

But since you don't know anything about Mohammad, why do you make a random argument about people having sex with little girls?

I find it amusing you've been attempting to debate with me for pages and pages, and apparently have never known what you were arguing against. Try the protip. Go back and see how and why I entered the conversation if you want to know. It's not my responsibility to explain my actions to you. It's all very clear if you read for comprehension.

 

[Riverwolf]

I find it amusing you've been attempting to debate with me for pages and pages, and apparently have never known what you were arguing against. Try the protip. Go back and see how and why I entered the conversation if you want to know. It's not my responsibility to explain my actions to you. It's all very clear if you read for comprehension.

Right here:

I think attempting to rationalize or excuse pedophilia says more about the people expressing such things than it does about a vague, theoretical person and situation from the distant past.

Fair enough: your opening argument, which is different from what you said you were arguing, is that people who try to rationalize or excuse pedophilia are... something.

Seems like no one responded to what you said, and you didn't enter again for several pages. But then, you made this post:

It's funny that people are arguing that's it's okay as long as a nine year old doesn't think she was abused or raped. The point is - and I don't care what time your from - if you're a grown man who is sexually attracted to a nine year old, there's something wrong with you.

Which may or may not be true.

But, again, since you're not talking about Mohammad, what was the point of making these posts?

 

[Skeptisch]

But, again, since you're not talking about Mohammad, what was the point of making these posts?

It seems that the point is “if you're a grown man who is sexually attracted to a nine year old, there's something wrong with you.” And since Mohammad was a 53 year man sexually attracted to a nine year old it seems fitting to make this point on this thread.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

But, again, since you're not talking about Mohammad, what was the point of making these posts?

For those reading for comprehension, it was because, at that time in the conversation, people were focusing on the argument that it's okay to bang a nine year old as long as she is okay with it. I was providing the alternative perspective that, regardless of whether the nine year old thinks it's okay or not, that there's something wrong with an adult man who wants to have sex with a nine year old.

If you can't determine the relevance of my point based on this, then you're more hopeless than I previously thought.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

It seems that the point is “if you're a grown man who is sexually attracted to a nine year old, there's something wrong with you.” And since Mohammad was a 53 year man sexually attracted to a nine year old it seems fitting to make this point on this thread.

Wow! How are you miraculously able to both understand my point, and its relevance? Do you have some kind of magical powers?

 

[McBell]

Once again, for those paying attention, my only argument is that adult men who want to have sex with nine year old girls are screwed up in the head. Period.

Please explain how your only argument has nothing to do with Mohammed and Aisha.

I mean, given the OP, the nature of your argument, the fact that you presented your argument in this particular thread...

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Please explain how your only argument has nothing to do with Mohammed and Aisha.

I already have. Your inability or unwillingness to comprehend my explanation isn't my responsibility.

 

[McBell]

I already have. Your inability or unwillingness to comprehend my explanation isn't my responsibility.

So you have.
Though I did not see your explanation until after the post you quoted.
My apologies for making you feel so threatened and attacked that you still have the need to continue your ad hominems.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

So you have.
Though I did not see your explanation until after the post you quoted.
My apologies for making you feel so threatened and attacked that you still have the need to continue your ad hominems.

No apology necesssary. I'm used to people not reading what I write and jumping to conclusions about what I'm saying.

 

[Riverwolf]

For those reading for comprehension, it was because, at that time in the conversation, people were focusing on the argument that it's okay to bang a nine year old as long as she is okay with it. I was providing the alternative perspective that, regardless of whether the nine year old thinks it's okay or not, that there's something wrong with an adult man who wants to have sex with a nine year old.

If you can't determine the relevance of my point based on this, then you're more hopeless than I previously thought.

Well, having something wrong in the head doesn't necessarily determine whether or not something is okay, but that does make sense.

I should point out that the confusion most likely stemmed from the fact that people like myself were also focusing on the specific incident of Mohammad and Aisha, and therefore it was assumed that you were also talking specifically about them, even if it was just through an implication.

It seems that the point is “if you're a grown man who is sexually attracted to a nine year old, there's something wrong with you.” And since Mohammad was a 53 year man sexually attracted to a nine year old it seems fitting to make this point on this thread.

And this would make perfect sense, except for posts like this:

By speaking in general, I meant that I'm not discussing the specific instance of Mohammed, since people seemed to keep thinking I was talking about that. I never brought him up or his child-bride. I'm not arguing about that instance at all. I'm arguing that all instances of adult men having sex with little girls signifies a psychological problem with the adult man. Sorry if there was any confusion.

Perhaps that post, and/or other posts, were poorly worded. I know I poorly word my posts when things get heated.

So, Kilgore, let me see if I have you straight.

You were arguing that all instances of adult men having sex with nine year old girls, prepubescent or not, are messed up in the head, because of the idea that in all cultures, all nine year old girls would be seen as children because of their mental and emotional states, regardless of their individual physical maturity. (Which, BTW, I don't think is necessarily true.) Therefore, if Mohammad, in fact, had sex with nine-year-old Aisha, then he was messed up in the head. (It would seem that he did not, in fact, have sex with a nine-year-old girl, and so, if he was messed up in the head, that wasn't why). In addition, any culture where this would be socially acceptable would be a culture of people messed up in the head. (Of course, it could be argued that all cultures are made of people who are messed up in the head for reasons x, y, and z, but that's besides the point.) You brought up this argument in response to people arguing that what's okay is determined by a culture, as well as a time period.

Not to mention the odd practice of stating assumptions about other peoples' reading comprehension.

Am I right?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Am I right?

You're right if you think adult men having sex with nine year olds signifies a problem with the man.