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Was Islam spread by the sword?

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Smart_Guy

...
Premium Member
*Post Removed*

Sorry but, where did you get this from?

I'm not trying to debate here, I wanna know the source!

The above information is completely wrong, or at least does not even come close to "most Muslims". I know at least four women that got remarried normally without any problem at all (three divorcees and one widow), and this is Saudi Arabia!

What did Muslims do to you to post such things without thinking?

Please confirm your information before posting them, or at least don't over generalize if you heard one or two cases!
 
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beenie

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
This thread has gotten ridiculous. So many generalizations and strawmen... I could build a field.

Was Islam spread by a sword? Sometimes.
Do Muslims treat non-Muslims poorly? Sometimes.
Do Muslim men mistreat women? Sometimes.
 

Smart_Guy

...
Premium Member
This thread has gotten ridiculous. So many generalizations and strawmen... I could build a field.

Was Islam spread by a sword? Sometimes.
Do Muslims treat non-Muslims poorly? Sometimes.
Do Muslim men mistreat women? Sometimes.

I completely agree with you ma'am. In some contexts I would even say "much" not just "sometimes", yet still not a good reason to generalize!

I also noticed that there are so many of what I see as off-topic, flood, spam and wrong information posts. I find myself 99% on the defensive in this thread :(

Can this thread perhaps be reviewed by the staff?

Much obliged!
 

gnostic

The Lost One
smart guy said:
Sorry but, where did you get this from?

I'm not trying to debate here, I wanna know the source!

The above information is completely wrong, or at least does not even come close to "most Muslims". I know at least four women that got remarried normally without any problem at all (three divorcees and one widow), and this is Saudi Arabia!

What did Muslims do to you to post such things without thinking?

Please confirm your information before posting them, or at least don't over generalize if you heard one or two cases!

Do you think Muslims always act fairly to woman wanting divorce, or treated fairly by Muslim communities?

'Imam Shopping' -- Muslim Women's Long Road to Islamic Divorce



This Muslim woman had sought 10 imams to get religious divorce from her ex-husband. She got the divorce from the civil court, but had difficulty getting religious divorce from imams, even though she has signs of abuses (scars) from her ex-husband.

Had husband wanted to divorce her, he would have got it immediately, but it took her 4 years. And she only got this religious divorce because her ex-husband finally decided to do it.

Muslim societies showed from compassion towards widows than women who divorced.

You tell me if this is right or fair?

Divorced Palestinian women suffer discrimination, stigma

Can you truly tell me that Muslim societies don't discriminate divorce women or sometimes treat them as "social outcasts"?

And BTW, I did say remarrying is possible in my previous post, not impossible.
 
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Smart_Guy

...
Premium Member
Do you think Muslims always act fairly to woman wanting divorce, or treated fairly by Muslim communities?

You tell me if this is right or fair?

No Sir, Muslims don't always act fairly to woman wanting divorce, or treated fairly by Muslim communities!

And no, that was not right nor fair!

But I don't see how that, a couple of cases, or even hundreds more, even comes close to cover "most Muslims" as you said!

Forgive me for saying this as I think, giving you the benefit of the doubt that maybe you didn't notice it; please read Ms. Ssainhu's post above!

Muslims are humans too and they are far from perfect!

Injustice is a curse the plagues the whole world not just Muslims!

Please also note that I'm only on the defensive here, and I don't mean any disrespect to your kind self!
 
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gnostic

The Lost One
[FONT=&quot]
smart guy said:
But I don't see how that, a couple of cases, or even hundreds more, even comes close to cover "most Muslims" as you said!

You asked for a couple of sources, so I gave you a couple.

So I just happened to give you JUST TWO DIFFERENT CASES. What more do you want for me? Give you 100 different cases? Would you be satisfied with that?

Both women's cases, from articles that I have brought up, are not unique cases. And how many of these cases go unheard or unreported? I certainly don't know.

But you are right, using word like "most" have be unfair from me. I probably should have used "some". So I am sorry that I have chosen word poorly. When I hyperactive sometimes, I say or write something that I may regret.

That you know 4 formerly divorced women re-marrying, that's great. I hoped their new husbands are better, and they will have better life.

As to ssainhu, I actually have the highest respect for her. If she think I am over-generalizing, then most likely I have been.

But I am not over-generalizing when sometimes, men, family, communities, laws and politics, sometimes don't treat their women well, whether they be Muslims or non-Muslims.

But like you said, that can be true for all societies, around the world, Muslim or non-Muslim world.

I have no illusion that there are domestic violence in Australian homes; I will never deny that. And I won't even deny that politics, laws and communities have failed these women.

I don't think any constitution or law are perfect, including in Australia. The law still need fixing here. But it doesn't need religion to fix it. I think religion(s) tend to compound the problem more than fix them, especially the rights of women.

Take FearGod's post for example. The moment he bring up anything about women living in the western society, he like some others here, often bring up prostitution, as if that the only profession women can do. Why? Is that not generalization on his part?

I am nearly 50, Smart Guy, and I know not one person (woman) who worked in the sex industry. Sure, some are not wealthy (and some are), but none of them have resorted to selling their bodies.[/FONT]
 
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paarsurrey

Veteran Member
It is unfortunate that Islamophobic (if I get the word right) people only search for the hiccups done by Muslims and use them against Islam and all Muslims as a whole. They only look at the uncivilized acts of kidnapping and raping, and ignore facts like the ones you, with my appreciation, post. As if they don't know that for example Malaysia, and Brunei are Muslim countries under Islamic rule!

I'm talking generally, not about members here!

Thanks for the appreciation.

Regards
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
When we talk about war, you must know
The war is not over ---
It is an ongoing wars in the past, present and future ----
This is a fact accepted by the mind
For this we must have to know the types of wars
Then we look for the ideas and ideologies that encourage and nourish wars between ideologies that do not encourage wars ---
And then compare for everyone
First - types of wars - St. - religious --- economical ---
Colonial ----
And also a second type of offensive and defensive wars ----
The difference between the religious wars and colonial wars ---
Is in the use of debt -----
The use of religion to be confusing the secular and religious -----
For this, the wars that are in the world wars are wars of colonization and interests ---
The most important character in these wars that are not used for the name of God where -----And World War II and the first is the interests of the wars between European countries ---
Fierce wars ---
But it was mundane wars
And all those who participated in the war know this ---
Striker says slogans and goals -
The defender says slogans and goals
Religion is far from these wars ---
West came to the country's east, but did not come to the propagation of religion -
The best example ---
America's war with Iraq ----
Are the Americans came to Iraq even preach Christianity or Buddhism
Americans came to Iraq at the invitation of the Kuwaiti and Saudi Arabia and the Gulf oil money Yes, the Americans came to Iraq with money Saudis ---
And fought the system is an Arab nationalist regime of Saddam Hussein ---
Secular regime ---
Saudis fought Saddam Hussein through the use of the armies of America and the West-
Thus, all the wars in the world -----
Interests are wars and wars in order to grab a spot of land
Thus, all the wars in the world -----
Interests are wars and wars in order to grab a spot of
[FONT=&quot]ه [/FONT]I think think these enoth examples and clear ----
Interests and not religion ---
Here, this question is very important --- big important ---
are Britain used in all those wars, the word from the words of Christ, so give justification to those wars --- Is he British or the Germans until they are fighting spread Christianity in these countries ---
Have you used the UK or Germany or America or the state of the text of the Gospel of Trier these wars
The answer - not ---
Because he does not have a Bible in only one text and this text to Aichir to war or spreading the faith by force And even war between China and Japan -
Between Russia and others ---
Wars are not of God and the name of God, far from it -
And these people know this well ---
Soldiers know they fighting for the sake of Allah ---
They were fighting for the nation and for better living
But on the other side, Muslims -----
Islam loads of texts and verses of the Koran to ignite a global war ---
read the Quran
The texts of the Koran and verses of the Koran, and I work with the collection of which is found on the net also ---
If he wants a Muslim to defend his use of state verses of the Koran and even justify that war ---
Yes, the Muslim considers himself a deputy of God on earth ----
The Jihad of the most important fundamentals of Islam
The history of Islam is the history of war and sword -
Today, rifle and cannon and rifles
Muslim uses a verse that says prepared for them and what you can of power terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy
Muslim says that both does not believe in Islam is the enemy of God So this is an important difference between the wars,
wars between Muslims and non-Muslims -
Muslims in the wars in the name of God in the heart of the war and the verses of the Koran that gives justification for the war Now, I'm talking about the second point - religious ideology or religious thought --- ---
Briefly ---
Christian thought does not encourage war, which is not the teachings of Christianity -
But the ideology of Islamic or Islamic thought is the thought of encouraging war and war is one of the most important teachings -
He calls it a religion is better and he is fighting for God ---
The signing of this response is under the name of –
Mahasn ebn sawresh—​
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
Here we discuss the thought and ideologies ---
The ideology of the First World War was for control of the world
The ideology of the Ottomans ---
They also control over Europe, but through the use of Islamic teachings as a cover for those wars -
The Crusades were also wars interests
European side has not been able to Terer war of any text or the word of Christ ---
There is no text or any of the Gospels allow or say that this war is for God -
God of Christianity does not need humans even publish his name ---
God in Islam, Muslims and the fuel used for the anonymity that is an important difference between the ideologies of religious combat -
And between peaceful religious ideologies
Mahasn ebn sawresh​
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
yeah, right.

even when they go through legal channel, who do you think a Muslim courts favour?

who get the house when they divorce?

who get the custody of the children if they divorce?

most often the Muslim judges or courts rule in favour the husbands.

Look up the statistics, and it will show in Muslim countries, the judges most often favour the men over the women.

in Australia, when the divorced occurred and the court give custody to the women, some Muslim men would take the children, and moved to another countries, so the mothers can't have the children. that how much Muslims respect the law in a country they live in, by breaking the law, when it doesn't go their ways.

this happened several times in Australia, and one of them happened not so long ago, where the divorced father took his children to Lebanon, when they were at war. to Muslims it is legal for father to abduct his children and spirit his children, but illegal for mother to bring them home in Australia.

decades ago, this happen with marriage between a Malaysian prince and Australian woman. the woman got custody of her children in Australian court, but instead of respecting the court ruling, he spirited the children to Malaysia, and she didn't see her son and daughter until they were adults.

it is this double standard that Muslims have, who only respect Australian law only when it suit them, but go about breaking the law when it doesn't suit them, which is why I have no respect for some Muslim husbands in divorces.

quite frankly, if they can't respect the law of the country they live in, I will be quite happy for them if they were to migrate to another country that suit them.

You know nothing about Islam due to willful ignorance.

Women should be treated with respect and kindness,not just as sex object that can be be cheaply hired by men to satisfy their sexual instincts.

Children will belong to woman if she is divorced and her husband will be responsible by giving her a monthly allowance and when the children are in adult age,then the adult girl will move to her father as it isn't suitable for her to live with another father,whereas the adult boy are free to move to his father or to stay with his mother when ever he wishes.

Read about Islam without bias,if you want to know the truth.

[youtube]5Jvh3BNsSkM[/youtube]
Women's Rights in Islam Explained - YouTube


Many Australian women are converting to Islam,is that because they want to be oppressed.

[youtube]OAyY2gffnlA[/youtube]
22 Australian Converted at once to Islam - YouTube
 
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mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Aupmanya
So, Muslims pay Zakat and the non-muslims pay the Jiziyah. Where is the problem? And Islam sure is a religion of love and peace.so what meaning this many verse from qouran please
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]Sahih International[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And do not say about those who are killed in the way of Allah , "They are dead." Rather, they are alive, but you perceive [it] not.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2:155 [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]to top[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]Sahih International[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][URL="http://quran.com/2/192"]2:192
[/FONT]
[/URL]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]Sahih International[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Fighting has been enjoined upon you while it is hateful to you. But perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. And Allah Knows, while you know not.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2:217 [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]to top[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]Every man to tell you these verses from the Koran carries the meaning of peace ---
It is thought offensive ideology and the ideology of fighting for God ideology of Islamic Jihad -
These are some of the states fighting and not fighting all states ----
And I did not Show any of the conversations Mohamme

i have another verse from qoran -and i become to write it
Only from the Koran and explain some of them very terrible
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
to feargod you go out of this subjest --
the woman in islamic law not equail man ---

there is two verse --
[FONT=&quot]Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Indeed[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot], Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4:35 [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]to top[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]O you who have believed, when you contract a debt for a specified term, write it down. And let a scribe write [it] between you in justice. Let no scribe refuse to write as Allah has taught him. So let him write and let the one who has the obligation dictate. And let him fear Allah , his Lord, and not leave anything out of it. But if the one who has the obligation is of limited understanding or weak or unable to dictate himself, then let his guardian dictate in justice. And bring to witness two witnesses from among your men. And if there are not two men [available], then a man and two women from those whom you accept as witnesses - so that if one of the women errs, then the other can remind her. And let not the witnesses refuse when they are called upon. And do not be [too] weary to write it, whether it is small or large, for its [specified] term. That is more just in the sight of Allah and stronger as evidence and more likely to prevent doubt between you, except when it is an immediate transaction which you conduct among yourselves. For [then] there is no blame upon you if you do not write it. And take witnesses when you conclude a contract. Let no scribe be harmed or any witness. For if you do so, indeed, it is [grave] disobedience in you. And fear Allah . And Allah teaches you. And Allah is Knowing of all things.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][URL="http://quran.com/2/283"]2:283
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]to top[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[/URL][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
to feargod --
read about beating woman --
and read about witness of woman --
two woman witness equil one man witness --
why --the reason in verse say --
if one women forget another women remember ---
and the reason is
the woman is loss mind and religion --
are this justice law rule ---
please read and ask me in your mind
 

Smart_Guy

...
Premium Member
[FONT=&quot]

You asked for a couple of sources, so I gave you a couple.
[/FONT]

It is okay, you first said "most Muslims", which was a form of generalization, and gave me a couple of sources as live examples only, and not a common practice that can be considered that most Muslims abuse women, as a reply for my asking of a proof. Later on **what's really matters here** you admitted that it was not fair from your side to cover most Muslims in your claim, and I appreciate and respect that!

Case closed. We reached my point of which that not most Muslims do it. That was what I wanted and what satisfied me, not a 100 more cherry picked examples. Now, isn't "some people do this and that" something universal that happens all over the world? Why specifically blame Muslims?

Yes, all of the four women are living normally and I do see them in family gatherings with their children and spend good time with them chatting and even laughing!

I don't blame the West or you for anything. They have their own culture and I respect that. Prostitution or not, it is allowed there. I also don't generalize anything against the West, nor I bash them, I to the contrary take what I see they do good and learn from it. if there is anything going on with FearGod, please let is be with him no with me or with Islam and Muslims as a whole as he might have his own opinions and thoughts not mine!
 
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FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
to feargod you go out of this subjest --
the woman in islamic law not equail man ---

there is two verse --
[FONT=&quot]Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Indeed[/FONT][FONT=&quot], Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4:35 [/FONT]

I wonder how this verse was misinterpreted for so long even though it is easy to be understood in both Arabic and English language for the word "strike" and which is even explained by the previous words "to forsake and strike their bed", as amazingly the word strike in English and "يضرب" in Arabic means the same thing and which is leaving something as means of objection such as food strike or in Arabic "يضرب عن الطعام", the action done at the same moment for forsaking them and striking them and that is impossible to leave someone and strike him at the same time,so obviously strike here means cut relationship for a specific time.


Women aren't in the business world as men do,due to pregnancy and child care and in reality men are more involved in business than women.

So in "business contracts",men are easy to memorize the contracts due to their presence in the daily life business whereas women are less involved and may forget due to their absence from real life business and that was never to degrade women.
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
I don't know enough about ancient armor to say, but what I see in England my lionheart's avatar is a "Christian soldier" Crusading to rescue the holy land from Muslims. Ironic, if true.

Tom
I agree

That's my first impression when I saw the avatar of England my lionheart"s

since when he said it's about St. George , I have warm heart :D

so ,that Avatar was about wars between the Christians with each other ?
 
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mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
to feargod
Interpretation of knowledge
Are you kidding me --- or kidding on the air
I offer you a free service to read verses of the Koran from Arabic and Avsrh you clearly full ---
But you shut your ears ----
Something really sad ---
The teaching of the Koran --- as I have learned -
and to smart-gay
you are arbic man from saudi
are the Interpretation to beati and witness is correctly --
i think you god judj here
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
to feargod
Interpretation of knowledge
Are you kidding me --- or kidding on the air
I offer you a free service to read verses of the Koran from Arabic and Avsrh you clearly full ---
But you shut your ears ----
Something really sad ---
The teaching of the Koran --- as I have learned -
and to smart-gay
you are arbic man from saudi
are the Interpretation to beati and witness is correctly --
i think you god judj here

I read it with knowledge and it is very clear to me that forsaking them and sex strike is what meant in the verse,sex is an instinct similar to our need for food,so forsaking them and sex strike are very related, so if the woman isn't interested on you after talking with her in kindness and next forsaking and sex strike, then at this point divorce is the inevitable choice.
 

Smart_Guy

...
Premium Member
and to smart-gay
you are arbic man from saudi
are the Interpretation to beati and witness is correctly --
i think you god judj here

Smart gay?
:confused:

I believe that was an unintentional typo only!

The Quraan does not order to beat wives, it controls it to be maximum of an extremely light hit that does not inflect any impact to the body, and only as a last resort, yet better if not at all. ANd just for the information, hitting on the face in Islam is generally forbidden let alone for women. Women are more emotional than men so to them this feels like a hard punch on the face to men or even worse!

Enemy of Islam used the subject verse to bash Islam!

Actually, hitting wives in Saudi Arabia is a federal offense that has a fine of imprisonment and SR50,000 if I remember correctly!
 
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FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Smart gay?
:confused:

I believe that was an intentional typo only!

The Quraan does not order to beat wives, it controls it to be maximum of an extremely light hit that does not inflect any impact to the body, and only as a last resort, yet better if not at all. ANd just for the information, hitting on the face in Islam is generally forbidden let alone for women. Women are more emotional than men so to them this feels like a hard punch on the face to men or even worse!

Enemy of Islam used the subject verse to bash Islam!

Actually, hitting wives in Saudi Arabia is a federal offense that has a fine of imprisonment and SR50,000 if I remember correctly!

He is mocking with your name by insisting of typing gay instead of guy,brother Scimitar had already informed him that it is immoral to say gay, but he isn't stopping of bashing Islam and Muslims altogether.

We used to think that اضربوهن means to strike them, but have a look to the word and its position in the sentence وَاهْجُرُوهُنَّ فِي الْمَضَاجِعِ وَاضْرِبُوهُنَّ so how leaving them and forsaking them can be associated with striking them, how you strike someone while not staying with him الهجر (forsaking)
 
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