paarsurrey
Veteran Member
You may try it. You know I listen to you.
Regards
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Was Islam spread by the sword?
- Thread starter ZooGirl02
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Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Was Islam spread by the sword?
No.
Islam did not spread by sword. In fact sword is a hindrance in the way of spread of Islam. Quran provides both commandments and the gist of wisdom of the same; this peculiarity is not retained in book of any other revealed religion.Islam flourishes most in peace with its strong reasonable and rational arguments.
For example:
Further to post #258
Spread of Islam in
Congo: [2]
Islam[9] has been present in the Democratic Republic of the Congo since the 18th century, when Arab traders from East Africa pushed into the interior for ivory- and slave-trading purposes. Today, Muslims constitute approximately 10% of the Congolese population according to CIA World Factbook. The majority are Sunni Muslims, with approximately 6% belonging to the Ahmadiyya movement in Islam.[10]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Democratic_Republic_of_the_Congo
Islam spread to the Republic of the Congo from North Africa in the mid-19th century. [1] The Muslim community in the country is estimated at 1.3 percent of the population. In 2005 a large new mosque was constructed in Brazzaville. Most workers in the urban centers were immigrants from West Africa andLebanon, with some also from North Africa. The West African immigrants arrived mostly from Mali, Benin, Togo, Mauritania, and Senegal. The Lebanese were primarily Sunni Muslims. There was also a large Chadian Muslim population.
Muslim holy days are not nationally observed; however, they are respected. Employers grant leave for those who wish to observe holy days not on the national calendar.[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_Republic_of_the_Congo
Our voice is hardly heard in the country’s media,” Ramadan
AIRO, November 18 (IslamOnline.net) – Although making up to 15 millions of the country’s 60-million population, Muslims in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) still struggle for their religion to be recognized and better living conditions.
“Despite this large number of followers, Islam has not yet been officially recognized in the country,” the Congolese National Islamic Council chairman has told IslamOnline.net.
Gamal Lumemba Ramadan believed that Muslims had been up to many such challenges, as they were not allowed to carry out their religious rituals until the end of the Belgian colonial era in 1960.
“Lack of mosques, schools and even Qur’an copies reveals how alarming is the lack of knowledge among Muslims in the DRC,” he averred.
In Kinshasa, 14 small mosques serve 950,000 Muslims, compared with the spread of churches each serving ten houses.
http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/was-islam-spread-by-the-sword.163547/page-159
Country/Region:
Congo
Muslim population 2010 Pew Report[1]:3,648,267
Muslim percentage (%) of total population 2010 Pew Report[1] :5 [50]
Percentage (%) of World Muslim population 2010 Pew Report[1] :0.1
Muslim Population Other Sources : -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country
I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in
Congo . Do you see any?
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Regards
No.
Islam did not spread by sword. In fact sword is a hindrance in the way of spread of Islam. Quran provides both commandments and the gist of wisdom of the same; this peculiarity is not retained in book of any other revealed religion.Islam flourishes most in peace with its strong reasonable and rational arguments.
For example:
Further to post #258
Spread of Islam in
Congo: [2]Islam[9] has been present in the Democratic Republic of the Congo since the 18th century, when Arab traders from East Africa pushed into the interior for ivory- and slave-trading purposes. Today, Muslims constitute approximately 10% of the Congolese population according to CIA World Factbook. The majority are Sunni Muslims, with approximately 6% belonging to the Ahmadiyya movement in Islam.[10]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Democratic_Republic_of_the_Congo
Islam spread to the Republic of the Congo from North Africa in the mid-19th century. [1] The Muslim community in the country is estimated at 1.3 percent of the population. In 2005 a large new mosque was constructed in Brazzaville. Most workers in the urban centers were immigrants from West Africa andLebanon, with some also from North Africa. The West African immigrants arrived mostly from Mali, Benin, Togo, Mauritania, and Senegal. The Lebanese were primarily Sunni Muslims. There was also a large Chadian Muslim population.
Muslim holy days are not nationally observed; however, they are respected. Employers grant leave for those who wish to observe holy days not on the national calendar.[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_Republic_of_the_Congo
Our voice is hardly heard in the country’s media,” Ramadan
AIRO, November 18 (IslamOnline.net) – Although making up to 15 millions of the country’s 60-million population, Muslims in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) still struggle for their religion to be recognized and better living conditions.
“Despite this large number of followers, Islam has not yet been officially recognized in the country,” the Congolese National Islamic Council chairman has told IslamOnline.net.
Gamal Lumemba Ramadan believed that Muslims had been up to many such challenges, as they were not allowed to carry out their religious rituals until the end of the Belgian colonial era in 1960.
“Lack of mosques, schools and even Qur’an copies reveals how alarming is the lack of knowledge among Muslims in the DRC,” he averred.
In Kinshasa, 14 small mosques serve 950,000 Muslims, compared with the spread of churches each serving ten houses.
http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/was-islam-spread-by-the-sword.163547/page-159
Country/Region:
CongoMuslim population 2010 Pew Report[1]:3,648,267
Muslim percentage (%) of total population 2010 Pew Report[1] :5 [50]
Percentage (%) of World Muslim population 2010 Pew Report[1] :0.1
Muslim Population Other Sources : -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country
I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in
Congo . Do you see any?Please correct me if I am wrong.
Regards
Last edited:
gnostic
The Lost One
9:29.
Is this verse not obvious to you that, the Qur'an teach that Muslims are required to fight" non-Muslims until they pay jizya and they (non-Muslims) are "subjugated".
What another word for "fight" and "subjugated" other people?
To "conquer" or "invade". That verse demonstrates not peaceful, and require Muslims to attack those who don't believe in Allah or follow the Qur'an. Attacking anyone is not peaceful, and it is never defensive, especially if you are to "subjugate" people.
Clearly, you don't know what a real word peace mean.
Are you going to whitewash (making excuses) the meaning of 9:29?
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Did you read Detailed English Commentary given below the verse 9:29 in #3180 ?
[9:29]Fight those from among the People of the Book who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor hold as unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have declared to be unlawful, nor follow the true religion, until they pay the tax with their own hand and acknowledge their subjection.
Please read it now by clicking: Detailed English Commentary , it gives a lot of light on the issue.
Regards
gnostic
The Lost One
You truly cannot understand English, do you?
What does fight those who do believe in Allah mean? It mean "attack" the unbelievers. There is nothing peaceful to attacking other people who don't believe in your f###### religion.
And why i or anyone pay tax to religion we don't believe in.
Why should I submit to Muslims to bloody-thirsty religion or to your bloodthirsty god?
And the link to the commentary is definitely one-sided.
Muhammad stirred up troubles the moment he set foot in Medina, just as he caused trouble when he left Mecca. He started a war when he began raiding merchant caravans (623-624).
He caused trouble with the Jews when they refused to accept him as a prophet, eg the banishment of the Banu Qaynuqa (624). It wasn't just settling dispute between two feuding tribes; the banishment is revenge for their rejection of Muhammad as a prophet. Muhammad was biased in the the mediation, and use his power to eject population from Medina. But that not the only reason; by ejecting the Banu Qaynuqa from their home, he and his Muslims can gain wealth and properties from the Qaynuqa. He is a robber and a tyrant.
He approve of assassinations of those who write satires of him. Assassinations are murders with political motivations, proving that he is a tyrant.
And yet Muslim historians and scholars make excuses for all the illegal activities.
I may not believe in Mirza Ghulam Ahmadi or the Ahmadiyya, but as far as I am concern, Mirza is a peaceful man, but Muhammad is a tyrant.
Last edited:
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
gnostic
The Lost One
Yes, and as I said, it is one-sided (biased) commentary.
And again, I would ask you why should anyone pay tax for another person's religion? It is BS.
And again, again and again, there is nothing peaceful if you need to attack someone into submission.
Lastly, Islam is a religion, not a country, so they should be making wars, dictating terms in peace, or making policies, especially towards those who are not Muslims.
If you have bother to read the Bible, especially relating to Mosaic laws (the Torah), the laws only relate to - for people who followed the religion and those of descendants of Jacob (hence 12 tribes and the Levites). The laws don't applied to outsiders.
Islam is a piece of #### that want to rule everyone, even those who don't follow their bloody #### religion.
The jizya is nothing more than a protection racket, something gangsters or corrupted polices would do.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
That makes Judaism but a racial one. Right?
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Who invited one to be a Muslim?
If one is not convinced heart and soul, one need not be a Muslim, with coercion one can only be a hypocrite, not a Muslim.
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Mestemia said: ↑
In Post #2682
What does the Koran say about cars?
What does the Koran say about cloning?
What does the Koran say about medicine?
other than camel urine is a magical cure all...
paarsurrey said: ↑
Are you against animals? Camel is an innocent animal. Isn't it? Please
Paarsurrey says:
This innocent animal (camel) which was called the ship of the desert in Arabia, was to be a sign, among many others, as mentioned in Quran in Post #2833 and Hadith Post #2854and illustrated further in #2910, #2962 and the latest in this connection #3011,#3110.
Not only the camel but a sort of a donkey was also incidentally mentioned, that was to appear at End of Days or the time of truthful Jesus' Second Coming in Hadith of truthful Muhammad.
So Quran and Hadith both give clues about the modern means of transport in symbolic form:
Some other novel features of this symbolic donkey of the anti-Christ are described in great detail in various books of traditions. The following is a composite presentation of the information derived from them, it is further added:
Continued from post #3135, #3152,Feb 4, #3167 :
"These prophecies are so unique that it is hard to find their equal in the realm of Divine prophecies elsewhere. The description is so vivid and precise that one has the impression that like a painter who captures with his brush what he sees, the Holy Prophetsa was moulding into picturesque words what he observed unfolding before his eyes.."
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/revelation/part_6_section 2.html
So we conclude that modern day means of travel had been prophesied in Quran as well as Hadith.
Regards
In Post #2682
What does the Koran say about cars?
What does the Koran say about cloning?
What does the Koran say about medicine?
other than camel urine is a magical cure all...
paarsurrey said: ↑
Are you against animals? Camel is an innocent animal. Isn't it? Please
Paarsurrey says:
This innocent animal (camel) which was called the ship of the desert in Arabia, was to be a sign, among many others, as mentioned in Quran in Post #2833 and Hadith Post #2854and illustrated further in #2910, #2962 and the latest in this connection #3011,#3110.
Not only the camel but a sort of a donkey was also incidentally mentioned, that was to appear at End of Days or the time of truthful Jesus' Second Coming in Hadith of truthful Muhammad.
So Quran and Hadith both give clues about the modern means of transport in symbolic form:
Some other novel features of this symbolic donkey of the anti-Christ are described in great detail in various books of traditions. The following is a composite presentation of the information derived from them, it is further added:
Continued from post #3135, #3152,Feb 4, #3167 :
"These prophecies are so unique that it is hard to find their equal in the realm of Divine prophecies elsewhere. The description is so vivid and precise that one has the impression that like a painter who captures with his brush what he sees, the Holy Prophetsa was moulding into picturesque words what he observed unfolding before his eyes.."
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/revelation/part_6_section 2.html
So we conclude that modern day means of travel had been prophesied in Quran as well as Hadith.
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Those who doubt that Islam spread peacefully in times of Muhammad they should focus:
Regards
- Spread of Islam in Mecca before Muhammad and his companions were forced to migrate to Medina.
- Muhammad's companion had to migrate two times. Once to Habsha/Abyssinia (Arabic: الهجرة إلى الحبشة, al-hijraʾilā al-hābsḥa) and then to Medina.
- The Meccans sent a delegation to Habsha/Abyssinia to persuade the Christian King Nagashi/Negus (Arabic: نجاشي najāšī) not to give assylum to Muslims in his country and to expel them.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migration_to_Abyssinia
- It were the Meccans who persecuted brutally the Muslim to the religion of the Meccans.
- There is not a single instance of Muhammad using violence to convert Meccans to Islam.
Regards
Shad
Veteran Member
Those are not proper examples, those are examples of things others did to Muslims only. Do you know what an example is?
5. Is a claim not an example and begging the question. Fallacious reasoning strikes again.
gnostic
The Lost One
Forced or not, i wouldn't convert to Islam because I don't believe in any claim made by Muhammad or by any Muslim that hew as visited by an angel or that God gave the Qur'an.
And having read all sorts of rubbish from the Qur'an I am hardly convinced that God wrote it.
But did Islam spread because of the violence committed by Muhammad and those who followed him, then the answer is "Yes".
By Muhammad's own leadership and actions, and by all the empires that followed him.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
I quote from Torah:
Shemot - Exodus - Chapter 17:14-16
14The Lord said to Moses, Inscribe this [as] a memorial in the book, and recite it into Joshua's ears, that I will surely obliterate the remembrance of Amalek from beneath the heavens
15Then Moses built an altar, and he named it The Lord is my miracle
16And he said, For there is a hand on the throne of the Eternal, [that there shall be] a war for the Lord against Amalek from generation to generation.
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9878/jewish/Chapter-17.htm
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Further to Posts #2717, #2720 , #2722, and #2942 in response to OP's Post #1 I have to add:
Those who doubt that Islam spread peacefully in times of Muhammad they should focus on spread of Ahmadiyya true Islam, If it has happened now peacefully, it should be a clear sign for the doubtful that Islam spread peacefully in times of Muhammad.
I gave how Ahmadiyya spread peacefully in Argentina post #2430, Australia Post #2460 , Austria Post #2489, Bangladesh Post #2513, Belarus Post #2535, Belgium Post#2556, Belize #2571, Bulgaria Post #2595, Cameroon Post #2619, Canada Post #2636,Chad Post #2651,Congo #2672, Denmark #2703, Egypt #2824, Fiji #2883, France #2942, Germany #3025, Ghana #3102 , Guatemala #3149,.
PRESS RELEASES-92ND ANNUAL CONVENTION OF THE AHMADIYYA MUSLIM COMMUNITY IN BANGLADESH CONCLUDES
Head of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad delivers concluding address live from London
The World Head of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, the Fifth Khalifa (Caliph), His Holiness, Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad, concluded the 92nd Annual Convention (Jalsa Salana) of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community in Bangladesh on 7 February 2016 with a faith-inspiring and emotional address.
His Holiness addressed the concluding session via satellite link from the Baitul Futuh Mosque in London.
5,800 people attended the 3-day Jalsa in Bangladesh, whilst more than 3,700 gathered in London for the concluding session.
During his address, His Holiness spoke of the objectives of the Jalsa Salana as prescribed by the Founder of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, His Holiness, Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the Promised Messiah (peace be upon him).
Further, His Holiness spoke of mankind’s responsibilities towards God Almighty and towards one another.
Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad said:
“In short, the key objective of the Jalsa Salana, as prescribed by the Promised Messiah (peace be upon him), is to establish a positive spiritual change within the participants, whereby they are drawn closer to their Creator.”
http://www.khalifaofislam.com/press-releases/jalsa-bangladesh-2016/
All objectives of Ahmadiyya true Islam are peaceful.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya_by_country
Does one see any sword used for spread of Ahmadiyya true Islam in
Bangladesh?
Isn't it a glorious sign for the wise? Please
Regards
Those who doubt that Islam spread peacefully in times of Muhammad they should focus on spread of Ahmadiyya true Islam, If it has happened now peacefully, it should be a clear sign for the doubtful that Islam spread peacefully in times of Muhammad.
I gave how Ahmadiyya spread peacefully in Argentina post #2430, Australia Post #2460 , Austria Post #2489, Bangladesh Post #2513, Belarus Post #2535, Belgium Post#2556, Belize #2571, Bulgaria Post #2595, Cameroon Post #2619, Canada Post #2636,Chad Post #2651,Congo #2672, Denmark #2703, Egypt #2824, Fiji #2883, France #2942, Germany #3025, Ghana #3102 , Guatemala #3149,.
- Now I give peaceful spread of Ahmadiyya true Islam in
Bangladesh [2]
PRESS RELEASES-92ND ANNUAL CONVENTION OF THE AHMADIYYA MUSLIM COMMUNITY IN BANGLADESH CONCLUDES
Head of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad delivers concluding address live from London
The World Head of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, the Fifth Khalifa (Caliph), His Holiness, Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad, concluded the 92nd Annual Convention (Jalsa Salana) of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community in Bangladesh on 7 February 2016 with a faith-inspiring and emotional address.
His Holiness addressed the concluding session via satellite link from the Baitul Futuh Mosque in London.
5,800 people attended the 3-day Jalsa in Bangladesh, whilst more than 3,700 gathered in London for the concluding session.
During his address, His Holiness spoke of the objectives of the Jalsa Salana as prescribed by the Founder of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, His Holiness, Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the Promised Messiah (peace be upon him).
Further, His Holiness spoke of mankind’s responsibilities towards God Almighty and towards one another.
Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad said:
“In short, the key objective of the Jalsa Salana, as prescribed by the Promised Messiah (peace be upon him), is to establish a positive spiritual change within the participants, whereby they are drawn closer to their Creator.”
http://www.khalifaofislam.com/press-releases/jalsa-bangladesh-2016/
All objectives of Ahmadiyya true Islam are peaceful.
- Country:
Bangladesh :Ahmadiyya population : 100,000 : *5:There is also an upper estimate of 200,000 Ahmadi Muslims in Bangladesh.
- Percentage (%) of Muslims : 0.1 % : Percentage (%) of population :0.1 % :Notes/Sources : Estimate Estimate[7][n 5]*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya_by_country
Does one see any sword used for spread of Ahmadiyya true Islam in
Isn't it a glorious sign for the wise? Please
Regards
Last edited:
gnostic
The Lost One
Are you seriously trying to tell me that Judaism and Christianity are not peaceful religions? Seriously?
For one, I am neither a Christian, nor a Jew. So attempting to use the bible against me, not only won't work, but it is hilarious that you've even bothered to try.
Second, I have never stated Christianity or Judaism to be "peaceful" religions. So you are hitting straw man with this piece of argument.
Thirdly, I have never said the bible was "peaceful" or book of peace.
Four, not once did, not ever, did I ever say that God wrote any part of the bible, the Jewish part (Tanakh, Torah, or the Old Testament) or the Christian part (gospels, epistles, revelation, New Testament). Only the woefully uneducated and the extreme fanatical ones would make presumptions that God wrote anything.
The difference between you and me, is that I don't put religions - and that's any religion - on a high pedestal. I don't treat the scriptures or the religions as some ideal worlds or utopia.
The problem is that you don't want to deal with the real world. You keep denying that Muhammad was never a nice man; he was never a peaceful man, not even before he fled Mecca for Medina.
- He was vengeful enough, to start a war with the Meccans, by raiding and stealing merchant caravans (623 - 624).
- He was vindicated enough to expel one Jewish tribe after another (starting with the Banu Qaynupa), simply because they deny him ever being a prophet. The men who were beheaded (Banu Qurayza) were the ones who refused to accept Islam, sparing only those who did convert, demonstrate compulsion do exist in Islam.
- This (compulsion) is further demonstrated when Muhammad refused to accept the surrender of Ta'if (630), unless they all convert and destroyed their former religion.
Instead, you keep copy-and-paste wiki articles, and tried to convince us Ahmadi version of Islam is peaceful, but Mirza Ghulum bloody Ahmadi did start Islam, did he?
If you wanted me to say Ahmadiyya is a peaceful sect, and I have said it in previous replies, BUT this topic is about Islam, not your precious Ahmadiyya.
The OP say nothing about Mirza or about Ahmadiyya. Since others here say, Islam didn't spread peacefully, you are trying to redirect them to Ahmadiyya, and you are being terribly obvious and obviously evasive, whenever Muhammad and Muslim armies that have invaded other lands come up.
This dishonest tactics of yours don't generate any warm feeling to your sect, despite being a peaceful version of Islam. How can I trust any Ahmadi when he refuse to upfront with me?
You are not painting image of Ahmadiyya whenever you hide or evade from addressing issues or questions put before you. And hiding behind the wiki articles don't help your cause too.
gnostic
The Lost One
Sorry, typo.
The part in red, should read as "...so they should not be making wars..."
It is too late for me to fix that old post.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
paarsurrey said: ↑
I quote from Torah:
Shemot - Exodus - Chapter 17:14-16
14The Lord said to Moses, Inscribe this [as] a memorial in the book, and recite it into Joshua's ears, that I will surely obliterate the remembrance of Amalek from beneath the heavens
15Then Moses built an altar, and he named it The Lord is my miracle
16And he said, For there is a hand on the throne of the Eternal, [that there shall be] a war for the Lord against Amalek from generation to generation.
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9878/jewish/Chapter-17.htm
Regards
I quote from Torah:
Shemot - Exodus - Chapter 17:14-16
14The Lord said to Moses, Inscribe this [as] a memorial in the book, and recite it into Joshua's ears, that I will surely obliterate the remembrance of Amalek from beneath the heavens
15Then Moses built an altar, and he named it The Lord is my miracle
16And he said, For there is a hand on the throne of the Eternal, [that there shall be] a war for the Lord against Amalek from generation to generation.
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9878/jewish/Chapter-17.htm
I just quoted from the Jewish scripture. One can make one's own opinion. If one thinks it is peaceful, then say it boldly (I mean , in bold letters) categorically, with the reasons thereof.
Regards
Reflex
Active Member
The only place in the world where Islam was received without the sword is Indonesia. Look it up if you don't believe me.
Paarsurrey, you must be one of the very few people in the world who take those quotes literally. Sad. I saw in one debate where an atheist scientist (Lawrence Krauss, if I remember correctly) was asked, "Why is it that skeptics are the only ones who take words like that literally when no one else does, not even inheritors of the Torah?" The question went unanswered.
Paarsurrey, you must be one of the very few people in the world who take those quotes literally. Sad. I saw in one debate where an atheist scientist (Lawrence Krauss, if I remember correctly) was asked, "Why is it that skeptics are the only ones who take words like that literally when no one else does, not even inheritors of the Torah?" The question went unanswered.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
How would one understand "I will surely obliterate the remembrance of Amalek from beneath the heavens" if it is not literal?
Regards
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