Was Islam spread by the sword?

[paarsurrey]

How is Islam spreading in modern day Britain? How did it arrive in what we now call Ethiopia? How did Islam spread in the Arabian peninsula, in particular Makkah and Medina?
Islam did not start it's spread via military conquests, although they would have occurred due to various reasons.

You make a good point.
Thanks and regards

 

[gnostic]

How did Islam spread in the Arabian peninsula, in particular Makkah and Medina?

Islam did not start it's spread via military conquests, although they would have occurred due to various reasons.

Muhammad is a troublemaker and warmonger, and started the conflict himself, in both Mecca and Medina.

He incited troubles, when he first began preaching to people to destroy worship of pagan religion, in Mecca. He was first to threatened other people's rights to worship as they please.

That's the reason why he was eventually driven out of Mecca, because he can't control himself.

When he was in Medina, he caused more trouble, like driving the Banu Qaynupa out of their homes, in 624, and stealing their properties.

And he started a war with Mecca, because he began resorting highway robbery, he and his followers were frequently stealing from merchant caravans, in 623-624. In one of these raids, in 624, one of caravan guard was killed, by one of Muhammad's men; did Muhammad regret this death? Did he have the killer arrested?

This is not a defensive action or self defence, this is pure vengeance, and Muhammad was never peaceful person. He acted like a robber baron, mafia, or warlord.

He approve of assassinations done in his name and in name of his religion and his God, which make his religion stained in blood with murders. Did he have these assassins arrested and tried? No. He didn't. According to the biographers he praised them for their taking initiatives in committing murders in murdering on his and Allah's behalf.

In 630 after the Banu Qurayza surrendered after the siege, he allowed a dozen men to be spared, because they converted, the rest of them were killed and their omen and children enslved. Is that not compulsion?

When Muhammad marched into Mecca, without further fighting, he had ten or so men executed without any trial. Is that law or justice, or were they revenge killings for his exile? Look like the later is true.

And he got what he wanted, destroying other people's by destroying idols. So much for freedom of religions.

Ta'if was another city, that surrendered, to Muhammad, but the only surrender he would accept, was them all converting. Convert or face death or slavery. That's another compulsion.

Muhammad's army attacked Byzantines first, when they entered Byzantine land in Syria. So it was Muhammad who drew first blood. Byzantines were simply defending the Ghassanids living in their territory; the Byzantines had the rights to defend the Ghassanids, because they were Byzantine ally in the recent war against Sassanid Persia. The Byzantine victory was indecisive, so the Muslims came back with a larger army after Muhammad's death, and conquered Syria, and Egypt, in revenge for their previous defeat in 632.

My point in this, is that Muhammad and Muslims for motivation in all their wars have been always revenge and not just territories and plunders.

Revenge is never a peaceful acts, and it is certainly not lawful or for justice.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

To claim that Islam was spread by force is a great show of ignorance to say the least without being rude.

So the city of Ta'if besieged itself with siege weapons then? The Persian Empire just tripped, fell and landed in Islamic rule under Muslims who just magically appeared there?

I wonder why the Mongols embraced Islam when they tore through Baghdad, the then capital of the Islamic Empire, Muslims were no match for them, in fact over a million people died there in which rivers turned red with blood.

Because the general rule is if a conqueror's culture doesn't absorb local culture, the local culture absorbs the conquerors. The same thing happened with the Danelaw in England - over time the Danes who worshipped the old gods adopted Christianity and adopted Saxon customs & the language. Again, the same thing happened with the Ptolemaic Dynasty of Egypt. It's descended from a Macedonian general but they adopted Egyptian culture to legitimise their rule.

I ask this to anyone who 'knows Islamic history', why did the Mongols, namely their leader, the nephew of Genghis Khan accept Islam when they were the ones doing all the killing and waving swords??

Any takers?

Uh, who would that be?

 

[Augustus]

I wonder why the Mongols embraced Islam when they tore through Baghdad, the then capital of the Islamic Empire, Muslims were no match for them, in fact over a million people died there in which rivers turned red with blood.

I ask this to anyone who 'knows Islamic history', why did the Mongols, namely their leader, the nephew of Genghis Khan accept Islam when they were the ones doing all the killing and waving swords??

Any takers?

Political reasons probably.

Ilkhanate Mongol conquerors also adopted Buddhism and Christianity in different territories. Ghazan himself converted to Islam from Christianity.

 

[Tomorrows_Child]

Muhammad is a troublemaker and warmonger, and started the conflict himself, in both Mecca and Medina.

He incited troubles, when he first began preaching to people to destroy worship of pagan religion, in Mecca. He was first to threatened other people's rights to worship as they please.

I'm just gonna end this real quick:

This was revealed to Prophet Muhammad PBUH when the Quraish came to dissuade him from Islam:

"
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
Say: Oh you who turn away
I do not worship what you worship,
nor do you worship what I worship.
And I will not worship what you worship,
Nor will you worship what I worship.
Your way is yours, and my way is mine."

At no point, in Makkah, did Prophet Muhammad PBUH try and force Islam on anyone and when his neighbour, who would through her daily rubbish at his doorstep or at him personally, was ill, he actually went to her home to pay his respect. When the Quraish tortured the Muslims for trying to practice their own religion, they were tortured and some were murdered.

Now, I'm sure you believe in yourself as some great secular idealist where we should all be free to do what we want, so why were the muslims, who had voluntarily converted, not free to worship they way they wanted to? When did Muslims in Makkah take up arms? Did they start a war? A battle? No.

Your argument falls flat because it is just lies and it's pathetic.

 

[Gharib]

The Mongols didn't embrace Islam. Some parts of the Mongol Empire did. You better learn some history, actual history not what your Imam tells you.
Also no Khagan of the Mongol Empire ever embraced Islam.

Maybe this one who you didn't know about did

Berke was one of the sons of Jochi, the eldest son of Genghis Khan.
Berke Khan adopted Islam in the city of Bukhara. When he was at Saray-Jük, Berke met a caravan from Bukhara and questioned them about their faith. Berke was convinced to convert by the caravan travellers and became a Muslim. Berke then persuaded his brother Tukh-timur to convert to Islam as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berke

 

[Gharib]

Uh, who would that be?

This one:

Berke was one of the sons of Jochi, the eldest son of Genghis Khan.
Berke Khan adopted Islam in the city of Bukhara. When he was at Saray-Jük, Berke met a caravan from Bukhara and questioned them about their faith. Berke was convinced to convert by the caravan travellers and became a Muslim. Berke then persuaded his brother Tukh-timur to convert to Islam as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berke

 

[Gharib]

Political reasons probably.

Ilkhanate Mongol conquerors also adopted Buddhism and Christianity in different territories. Ghazan himself converted to Islam from Christianity.

Berke didn't do so for political reasons. Which is why my initial question still stands.

 

[YmirGF]

Berke didn't do so for political reasons. Which is why my initial question still stands.

That some of the most brutal warriors who have lived embraced Islam is not exactly something to brag about. What is it about Islam that appealed to such psychopaths?

 

[Flankerl]

Maybe this one who you didn't know about did

Berke was one of the sons of Jochi, the eldest son of Genghis Khan.
Berke Khan adopted Islam in the city of Bukhara. When he was at Saray-Jük, Berke met a caravan from Bukhara and questioned them about their faith. Berke was convinced to convert by the caravan travellers and became a Muslim. Berke then persuaded his brother Tukh-timur to convert to Islam as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berke

You realise this doesn't disprove what I wrote right?

Berke was a Khan. I wrote Khagan. Its always a good idea to have some knowledge when you try to disprove something.



PS: No Khagan of the Mongol Empire converted to Islam, its okay you don't have to cry.

 

[Flankerl]

That some of the most brutal warriors who have lived embraced Islam is not exactly something to brag about. What is it about Islam that appealed to such psychopaths?

To be fair, if the Persians hadn't been such unfriendly people towards the Mongol emissaries they probably would've gone for south-east Asia first.

When they saw the horde on the horizon they probably realised how incredibly stupid they had been.


PS: The pax mongolica was actually quite peaceful and included actual religious freedom that wasn't really seen again in parts of the Mongol Empire till.. well today.

 

[paarsurrey]

That some of the most brutal warriors who have lived embraced Islam is not exactly something to brag about. What is it about Islam that appealed to such psychopaths?

What sword was used to convert Berke to Islam ? Did he convert to Islam under force?That is the point to be seen.
Regards

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Once again paarsurrey moves the goalposts. If you want to find out how Islam spread to the area now known as Israel (and if you insist on using Wikipedia as your primary source), look here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Israel

Islam was first introduced to the region of Palestine during the Muslim conquests of the 7th century, when armies from the Arabian Peninsula under the Rashidun Caliphate >conquered < a territory previously under the control of the Byzantine Empire.

The bold and underlined emphasis in this quote is my own.

 

[paarsurrey]

Once again paarsurrey moves the goalposts. If you want to find out how Islam spread to the area now known as Israel (and if you insist on using Wikipedia as your primary source), look here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Israel
Islam was first introduced to the region of Palestine during the Muslim conquests of the 7th century, when armies from the Arabian Peninsula under the Rashidun Caliphate >conquered < a territory previously under the control of the Byzantine Empire.
The bold and underlined emphasis in this quote is my own.

I don't mind. You are free to give your viewpoint. Truth will prevail.
Regards

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I don't mind. You are free to give your viewpoint. Truth will prevail.
Regards

Not if you keep ignoring it, it won't.

 

[Subhankar Zac]

Both Christianity and Islam spread by mass war crimes.
Christianity after gaining control of Europe by killing and forcefully converting the pagans to Christianity, later wiped out natives of America, tried to forcefully convert people of Goa, India and also their internal conflicts that slaughtered millions.
Islam since day one, was about convertion to the "Most true-est" religion on earth.
Christian Egypt and Iraq became under Islam. Later they entered in India as the Mughals destroyed Hindu shrines and constructed their mosques over it.
Killed many Hindus who didnt convert, forced the tax on non Muslim, buddhism was virtually wiped out in India almost by Islamic fanatics and indian kings
Apart from the Mughal emperor, Akbar who was highly accepting of other religions, other Islamic kings continued to convert to Islam forcefully.
Though Hindus were also to be blamed for their grotesque system of caste that created many many lower caste people who converted to Islam at their own will.
But others, they had to be forced into.
2 Sikh gurus were killed by these fanatics.

So, in terms of truth, YES, both religions spread by the sword.
But if we are being politically correct, Islam is the most peaceful religion on earth, way more than Jainism surely.
:/

 

[paarsurrey]

Both Christianity and Islam spread by mass war crimes.
Christianity after gaining control of Europe by killing and forcefully converting the pagans to Christianity, later wiped out natives of America, tried to forcefully convert people of Goa, India and also their internal conflicts that slaughtered millions.
Islam since day one, was about convertion to the "Most true-est" religion on earth.
Christian Egypt and Iraq became under Islam. Later they entered in India as the Mughals destroyed Hindu shrines and constructed their mosques over it.
Killed many Hindus who didnt convert, forced the tax on non Muslim, buddhism was virtually wiped out in India almost by Islamic fanatics and indian kings
Apart from the Mughal emperor, Akbar who was highly accepting of other religions, other Islamic kings continued to convert to Islam forcefully.
Though Hindus were also to be blamed for their grotesque system of caste that created many many lower caste people who converted to Islam at their own will.
But others, they had to be forced into.
2 Sikh gurus were killed by these fanatics.
So, in terms of truth, YES, both religions spread by the sword.
But if we are being politically correct, Islam is the most peaceful religion on earth, way more than Jainism surely.
:/

Islam/Quran/Muhammad were peaceful from day one, which started in Mecca, if not earlier in times of Adam.
The vedic time starts rather generates in war :

"Internecine military conflicts between the various tribes of Vedic Aryans are also described in the Rig Veda. Most notable of such conflicts was the Battle of Ten Kings, which took place on the banks of the river Parushni (modern day Ravi).[note 5] The battle was fought between the tribe Bharatas, led by their chief Sudas, against a confederation of ten tribes— Puru, Yadu, Turvasha, Anu, Druhyu, Alina, Bhalanas,Paktha, Siva, Vishanin.[38] Bharatas lived around the upper regions of the river Saraswati, while Purus, their western neighbours, lived along the lower regions of Saraswati. The other tribes dwelt north-west of the Bharatas in the region of Punjab.[39] Division of the waters of Ravi could have been a reason for the war.[38] The confederation of tribes tried to inundate the Bharatas by opening the embankments of Ravi, yet Sudas emerged victorious in the Battle of Ten Kings.[40] Purukutsa, the chief of Purus, was killed in the battle and the Bharatas and the Purus merged into a new tribe Kuru after the war.[39]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedic_period

So Hinduism generated in war. Right?
Regards

 

[Subhankar Zac]

Islam/Quran/Muhammad were peaceful from day one, which started in Mecca, if not earlier in times of Adam.
The vedic time starts rather generates in war :

"Internecine military conflicts between the various tribes of Vedic Aryans are also described in the Rig Veda. Most notable of such conflicts was the Battle of Ten Kings, which took place on the banks of the river Parushni (modern day Ravi).[note 5] The battle was fought between the tribe Bharatas, led by their chief Sudas, against a confederation of ten tribes— Puru, Yadu, Turvasha, Anu, Druhyu, Alina, Bhalanas,Paktha, Siva, Vishanin.[38] Bharatas lived around the upper regions of the river Saraswati, while Purus, their western neighbours, lived along the lower regions of Saraswati. The other tribes dwelt north-west of the Bharatas in the region of Punjab.[39] Division of the waters of Ravi could have been a reason for the war.[38] The confederation of tribes tried to inundate the Bharatas by opening the embankments of Ravi, yet Sudas emerged victorious in the Battle of Ten Kings.[40] Purukutsa, the chief of Purus, was killed in the battle and the Bharatas and the Purus merged into a new tribe Kuru after the war.[39]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedic_period

So Hinduism generated in war. Right?
Regards

Again, if you want to continue a thread loop of pointless logically inaccurate information out of a desperate attempt to justify your faith which history shows the evidence of its attacks, mention it before.
It's a place for discussion, not for coming up with futile loops.
There are certain levels of maturity we expect from adults, yet not to transcend that with excessive magnitude.
People are welcome to be stupid, but not engage in a conversation beggining the discussion by denying the obvious and putting along a string of unproven and more to the point, unrelated information.

If religion is the same as race for you... Try not to engage in a discussion with those who own a dictionary.

Regards

 

[Augustus]

Islam since day one, was about convertion to the "Most true-est" religion on earth.

Not in actual history it wasn't.

That's just something made up by Muslim 'historians' (really theologians) much later.

Christian Egypt and Iraq became under Islam.

It took nearly half a millennium for the ME to become even 50% Muslim.

Later they entered in India as the Mughals destroyed Hindu shrines and constructed their mosques over it.
Killed many Hindus who didnt convert, forced the tax on non Muslim, buddhism was virtually wiped out in India almost by Islamic fanatics and indian kings
Apart from the Mughal emperor, Akbar who was highly accepting of other religions, other Islamic kings continued to convert to Islam forcefully.

The extent of forceful conversion is overstated, as is the religious dimension of the invasion. It was a war of conquest and plunder, rather than religion and conversion. The invaders were referred to as 'Turks', not Muslims by those they fought.

While there were deliberate temple destruction, this was generally later and during the regimes of specific rulers rather than as a general policy.

"The cultural mixing took place throughout the subcontinent. In medieval Hindu texts from South India, the Sultan of Delhi is sometimes talked about as the incarnation of the god Vishnu. In the seventeenth century, the Mughal crown prince Dara Shikoh had the Bhagavad Gita, perhaps the central text of Hinduism, translated into Persian, and composed a study of Hinduism and Islam, “The Mingling of Two Oceans,” which stressed the affinities of the two faiths. Not all Mughal rulers were so open-minded. The atrocities wrought by Dara’s bigoted and puritanical brother Aurangzeb have not been forgotten by Hindus. But the last Mughal emperor, enthroned in 1837, wrote that Hinduism and Islam “share the same essence,” and his court lived out this ideal at every level." source

This is not to say the Mughals were the epitome of multicultural tolerance, but nowhere was in the medieval world.

 

[Subhankar Zac]

The extent of forceful conversion is overstated, as is the religious dimension of the invasion. It was a war of conquest and plunder, rather than religion and conversion. The invaders were referred to as 'Turks', not Muslims by those they fought.

While there were deliberate temple destruction, this was generally later and during the regimes of specific rulers rather than as a general policy.

"The cultural mixing took place throughout the subcontinent. In medieval Hindu texts from South India, the Sultan of Delhi is sometimes talked about as the incarnation of the god Vishnu. In the seventeenth century, the Mughal crown prince Dara Shikoh had the Bhagavad Gita, perhaps the central text of Hinduism, translated into Persian, and composed a study of Hinduism and Islam, “The Mingling of Two Oceans,” which stressed the affinities of the two faiths. Not all Mughal rulers were so open-minded. The atrocities wrought by Dara’s bigoted and puritanical brother Aurangzeb have not been forgotten by Hindus. But the last Mughal emperor, enthroned in 1837, wrote that Hinduism and Islam “share the same essence,” and his court lived out this ideal at every level." source

This is not to say the Mughals were the epitome of multicultural tolerance, but nowhere was in the medieval world.

As stated, Akbar and Numerous other mughal emperors had a positive side too. Many were against the tax paying and killing Hindus for conversion.

However, what might have initially started off as an attempt to extend the kingdom, later transformed into religious fanaticism.
Temple looting was common for both kings, but establishing mosques at the sites of those temples was proficient in ome faith

Many paintings found today depicting buddhist and Hindu arts, have mughal style of painting distinctly visible in them.
My ancestors were placed in kings courts as positions of scribes....
However, the atrocities left have Mark of Islamic fanaticism as well and it is because of which now even Hinduism now has religiously fanatic groups that are communal in nature.
Conversion to Hinduism never existed before the 19th century and such paranoia and fanaticism is the result of both Portuguese inquisition, colonialism and the Islamic rule in India.
Though colonialism is the primary reason of radical Hinduism.