Was Islam spread by the sword?

[FearGod]

The great German military expert Von Clausewitz said military action was politics by other means and since unlike Christ's kingdom, Allah's is of this world and it's pathetic political institutions. Islam wants to rule over everything which is Islamic or not. They fight so abhorrently they can't get their way but what they are doing in Israel is a tiny version of killing the believers wherever you find them. Of course they are losing as usual but if they were even half way competent soldiers, because of their numbers they would militarily subdue Israel then in their case either force conversion or death. I don't think they would bother with the feel themselves subdued and pay the higher tax rates in Israel's case. However Israel has someone much bigger than Allah backing them up so that will not occur but it is what the lunatics are attempting to do, it is what they have been doing for 1500 years, even with each other.

No i don't think the final war will be about conversion by force, it is silly to fight and kill while forcing someone to convert, it doesn't make sense.

Hey I got a serious question for you. The other day I heard ISUS smashed Jonah's tomb.

1. Why would anyone do that?
2. I thought Islam believed in OT prophets so again, why?
3. I do not believe Jonah's body was in the tomb nor do I venerate dead bodies anyway but it is one of the most senseless acts I have heard of. What if someone smashed Muhammad's tomb? It would result in a fatwa on everyone.

May i ask you a question to help me replying yours.

For how long Jonah's tomb existed in Iraq ?

 

[1robin]

No i don't think the final war will be about conversion by force, it is silly to fight and kill while forcing someone to convert, it doesn't make sense.

I quite agree it is silly but Islam has a high tolerance for silliness and I honestly cannot think of any other faith that even comes close to the amount of convert or die in their history as Islam. As an example of silliness everyone born in Islam is Islamic and to get out of a faith chosen for you when you were not old enough to know what it was, is to risk death in many Islamic nations. That is not to say Christianity is innocent either, but did you know the only conquest ever terminated for humanitarian reasons was the Spanish conquest of the Americas. The priests said that the convert or die tactics were against the Bible, and the leadership (including Cortez) saw that was so and stopped the attempts.

May i ask you a question to help me replying yours.

For how long Jonah's tomb existed in Iraq ?

I have no idea. I doubt very much if Jonah's body was ever in that tomb, but that does not make smashing it any more sensible. It would not make any sense but it would be more understandable if say Chinese forces did it because they do not believe in OT prophets, but I can't figure why Islam would do it other than pure evil but maybe there is more to the story.

 

[1robin]

If a dog bites my ankle, the dog should not be supprised if it gets kicked or shot.

I need a little context before I can agree, disagree. Who was this aimed at and what was it in response to? The principle is sound but it's premise is missing.

 

[FearGod]

I quite agree it is silly but Islam has a high tolerance for silliness and I honestly cannot think of any other faith that even comes close to the amount of convert or die in their history as Islam. As an example of silliness everyone born in Islam is Islamic and to get out of a faith chosen for you when you were not old enough to know what it was, is to risk death in many Islamic nations. That is not to say Christianity is innocent either, but did you know the only conquest ever terminated for humanitarian reasons was the Spanish conquest of the Americas. The priests said that the convert or die tactics were against the Bible, and the leadership (including Cortez) saw that was so and stopped the attempts.

Evidence today shows that Islam is spreading by (peace and logic) whereas no tangible evidence for how Islam had spread all over the world in the ancient times specially that we can see Islam present in Malaysia and Indonsia without any known wars between Muslims and those areas.

Christianity was present all the time in the Islamic world.

Prophet Mohammed message to Muslims and Christians

"This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them. Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them.
No compulsion is to be on them. Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries.

No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims' houses. Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God's covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate.

No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them. If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray.

Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants. No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world)."

English translation from 'Muslim History: 570 - 1950 C.E.' by Dr. A. Zahoor and Dr. Z. Haq, ZMD Corporation. P.O. Box 8231 - Gaithersburg, MD 20898-8231 - Copyright Akram Zahoor 2000. P. 167

Reference : Letter to all Christians from Prophet Muhammad - National Islam | Examiner.com

I have no idea. I doubt very much if Jonah's body was ever in that tomb, but that does not make smashing it any more sensible. It would not make any sense but it would be more understandable if say Chinese forces did it because they do not believe in OT prophets, but I can't figure why Islam would do it other than pure evil but maybe there is more to the story.

Rationally the tomb was there for hundreds of years under the Muslims control, so you got the answer.

 

[paarsurrey]

Was Islam spread by the sword?

No.

For example:

Spread of Islam in Kenya:

The spread of Islam into the interior

Islam remained an urban and coastal phenomenon. The Spread of Islam was low-keyed with no impact amongst the local non-Swahili African Community. There were no intermediary Africans to demonstrate that, adoption of a few Islamic institutions would not disrupt society.[9]

The spread of Islam to the interior was hampered by several factors: for instance, the nature of the Bantu society’s varied beliefs, and scattered settlements affected interior advancement. Other factors included, harsh climatic conditions, the fierce tribes like the Maasai, tribal laws restricting passage through their land, health factors, and the lack of easy mode of transportation.[10] For Trimingham, the brand of Islam introduced to the region was equally to blame.

Muslim traders were not welcome in the social structures thereby impeding any meaningful progress until the beginning of European occupation.
Other factors affecting Islamic movement into the interior included; atrocities committed during slave trading, as these unfavourably affected the spread of Islam.[11]In addition, the embracing of Islam by large portions of coastal tribes in the Nineteenth Century aided in its spread.

Besides, local Muslim preachers and teachers played major roles in teaching religion (Ar. dīn) and the Qur’ān at the Qur’ān Schools (Swa. vyuo) and Madrasa attached to the Mosques.[12]

The coming of the second wave of Europeans, in the Nineteenth Century, brought mixed fortunes to the coastal Muslims, their strong sense of pride and belonging was greatly diminished, with efforts being redirected to self adjustments.[13]

Nonetheless, Muslim agents deployed by Europeans as subordinate labourers to assist in the establishment of Colonial administration centres, were advantageously placed throughout the country, bringing the Islamic influence to the interior.Each place where a European installed himself, military camp, government centre, or plantation, was a centre for Muslim influence.[11]

In the interior, the Muslims neither integrated nor mingled with the local communities, yet, non-Swahili Africans began joining the Swahili trends in trade with some returning as Muslims. Swahili became the trade and religious language. Alongside the interpersonal contacts, intermarriages also yielded some conversions.

Although coastal rulers did not send missionaries to the interior, local Africans embraced Islam freely through attraction to the religious life of the Muslims. Close integration with the local population helped to foster good relations resulting in Islam gaining a few converts, based on individual efforts.[14]

Subjectively, most of the surrounding Bantu communities had a close-knit religious heritage, requiring strong force to penetrate. The pacification and consolidation by European powers provided the much-needed force to open up the communities for new structures of power and religious expression (Trimingham:1983:58).

Basically, progress in the spread of Islam in Kenya came between 1880 and 1930. This was when most social structures and the African worldviews were shattered, leaving them requiring a new, wider worldview encompassing or addressing the changes experienced.

Consequently, Islam introduced new religious values through external ceremonial and ritualistic expressions, some of which could be followed with no difficulty.

Socio-culturally, Muslims presented themselves with a sense of pride and a feeling of superiority. Islamic civilization was identified with the Arab way of life (Ustaarabu), as opposed to ‘barbarianism’ (Ushenzi) hence the domination of a form of Arabism over the local variety of Islam.[15]

The ease, with which Islam could be adopted, meant adding to the indigenous practices, new religious rites and ceremonies to the African ways, with new ways of defining one’s identity by new forms of expression. Mingling with Muslims led to conversion meaning returning home as Muslims and not aliens.[15] Lacunza-Balda shows that Islam could be adopted easily.

Although most of the conversions were of individuals, there were communities that embraced Islam en-masse. Some of these included the Digo and Pokomo of the Lower Tana region. From these communities Islam slowly penetrated inland.

Islam in Kenya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Kenya.

Do you see any? Please

Regards

 

[1robin]

Evidence today shows that Islam is spreading by (peace and logic) whereas no tangible evidence for how Islam had spread all over the world in the ancient times specially that we can see Islam present in Malaysia and Indonsia without any known wars between Muslims and those areas.

The greatest Genocide is history was Islamic. In this world that saying something. Of course you can find places where Islam is not holding a knife to peoples necks but in general no other faith in history has it's association with violence.

Christianity was present all the time in the Islamic world.

Christianity is the only faith significantly present in all nations but in many it survives despite persecution. If Rome couldn't kill it, Islam is not going to, but they have certainly tried very hard. No Christina nation I am aware of prohibits Islam but many Muslim nations have banned churches and the faith.

Prophet Mohammed message to Muslims and Christians

"This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them. Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them.
No compulsion is to be on them. Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries.

No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims' houses. Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God's covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate.

No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them. If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray.

Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants. No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world)."

English translation from 'Muslim History: 570 - 1950 C.E.' by Dr. A. Zahoor and Dr. Z. Haq, ZMD Corporation. P.O. Box 8231 - Gaithersburg, MD 20898-8231 - Copyright Akram Zahoor 2000. P. 167

Reference : Letter to all Christians from Prophet Muhammad - National Islam | Examiner.com

Well how is it then that tens of thousands of Muslims have killed Christian travelers (that is what started the crusades), banned and/or burned it's Churches, and made it an actual crime in many places? What Muhammad said varied by time. He was an opportunist, when convenient he was agreeable when it wasn't he was blood thirsty. That same "tolerant" man cut off the heads of bound captives until exhausted because they did not honor a treaty they were threatened with death into signing as well as praying people he had killed would come back to life so he could kill them again. If I was asked what Muhammad said I would respond with "on which day".

Rationally the tomb was there for hundreds of years under the Muslims control, so you got the answer.

I was not asking why Muslims had tolerated it, I was asking why Isus would destroy it. Many times in history the idea that one nation could break another will through violence has failed. It is not only evil but militarily stupid. You can turn a people who would have given in into resisting you until the end of time by unjustifiable cruelty. If Islam was smart they would leave the US alone until we bankrupted ourselves, and leave Israel alone all together. I don't think you agree with them but do you you even know how they think this will end? How does the mouse think biting the tiger is going to turn out? Do they not teach what the US did in WW2 or is capable of in modern times in Islamic schools? Isus kept going and now they have JADAMS and ASROCS down their throats, how is this wise or good for anyone? Again I am not suggesting you agree with them.

 

[1robin]

Was Islam spread by the sword?

No.

For example:

Spread of Islam in Kenya:

The spread of Islam into the interior

Islam remained an urban and coastal phenomenon. The Spread of Islam was low-keyed with no impact amongst the local non-Swahili African Community. There were no intermediary Africans to demonstrate that, adoption of a few Islamic institutions would not disrupt society.[9]

The spread of Islam to the interior was hampered by several factors: for instance, the nature of the Bantu society’s varied beliefs, and scattered settlements affected interior advancement. Other factors included, harsh climatic conditions, the fierce tribes like the Maasai, tribal laws restricting passage through their land, health factors, and the lack of easy mode of transportation.[10] For Trimingham, the brand of Islam introduced to the region was equally to blame.

Muslim traders were not welcome in the social structures thereby impeding any meaningful progress until the beginning of European occupation.
Other factors affecting Islamic movement into the interior included; atrocities committed during slave trading, as these unfavourably affected the spread of Islam.[11]In addition, the embracing of Islam by large portions of coastal tribes in the Nineteenth Century aided in its spread.

Besides, local Muslim preachers and teachers played major roles in teaching religion (Ar. dīn) and the Qur’ān at the Qur’ān Schools (Swa. vyuo) and Madrasa attached to the Mosques.[12]

The coming of the second wave of Europeans, in the Nineteenth Century, brought mixed fortunes to the coastal Muslims, their strong sense of pride and belonging was greatly diminished, with efforts being redirected to self adjustments.[13]

Nonetheless, Muslim agents deployed by Europeans as subordinate labourers to assist in the establishment of Colonial administration centres, were advantageously placed throughout the country, bringing the Islamic influence to the interior.Each place where a European installed himself, military camp, government centre, or plantation, was a centre for Muslim influence.[11]

In the interior, the Muslims neither integrated nor mingled with the local communities, yet, non-Swahili Africans began joining the Swahili trends in trade with some returning as Muslims. Swahili became the trade and religious language. Alongside the interpersonal contacts, intermarriages also yielded some conversions.

Although coastal rulers did not send missionaries to the interior, local Africans embraced Islam freely through attraction to the religious life of the Muslims. Close integration with the local population helped to foster good relations resulting in Islam gaining a few converts, based on individual efforts.[14]

Subjectively, most of the surrounding Bantu communities had a close-knit religious heritage, requiring strong force to penetrate. The pacification and consolidation by European powers provided the much-needed force to open up the communities for new structures of power and religious expression (Trimingham:1983:58).

Basically, progress in the spread of Islam in Kenya came between 1880 and 1930. This was when most social structures and the African worldviews were shattered, leaving them requiring a new, wider worldview encompassing or addressing the changes experienced.

Consequently, Islam introduced new religious values through external ceremonial and ritualistic expressions, some of which could be followed with no difficulty.

Socio-culturally, Muslims presented themselves with a sense of pride and a feeling of superiority. Islamic civilization was identified with the Arab way of life (Ustaarabu), as opposed to ‘barbarianism’ (Ushenzi) hence the domination of a form of Arabism over the local variety of Islam.[15]

The ease, with which Islam could be adopted, meant adding to the indigenous practices, new religious rites and ceremonies to the African ways, with new ways of defining one’s identity by new forms of expression. Mingling with Muslims led to conversion meaning returning home as Muslims and not aliens.[15] Lacunza-Balda shows that Islam could be adopted easily.

Although most of the conversions were of individuals, there were communities that embraced Islam en-masse. Some of these included the Digo and Pokomo of the Lower Tana region. From these communities Islam slowly penetrated inland.

Islam in Kenya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Kenya.

Do you see any? Please

Regards

Until you respond to my posts on Islam's roots and actions in general I am not responding to any more random cherry picked events you provide. It is like your singing praises with your eyes shut as Isus, Hamas, and the Taliban wade through rivers of blood. Debates are not one guy yelling at traffic.

 

[FearGod]

The greatest Genocide is history was Islamic. In this world that saying something. Of course you can find places where Islam is not holding a knife to peoples necks but in general no other faith in history has it's association with violence.

How is that comparable to Hitler.

Christianity is the only faith significantly present in all nations but in many it survives despite persecution. If Rome couldn't kill it, Islam is not going to, but they have certainly tried very hard. No Christina nation I am aware of prohibits Islam but many Muslim nations have banned churches and the faith.

And many Muslim nations have churches,Christians and Jews living in peace.

Well how is it then that tens of thousands of Muslims have killed Christian travelers (that is what started the crusades), banned and/or burned it's Churches, and made it an actual crime in many places? What Muhammad said varied by time. He was an opportunist, when convenient he was agreeable when it wasn't he was blood thirsty. That same "tolerant" man cut off the heads of bound captives until exhausted because they did not honor a treaty they were threatened with death into signing as well as praying people he had killed would come back to life so he could kill them again. If I was asked what Muhammad said I would respond with "on which day".

You are speaking about Mohammed PBUH with certainty as if you lived and witnessed the events of that era.

I was not asking why Muslims had tolerated it, I was asking why Isus would destroy it. Many times in history the idea that one nation could break another will through violence has failed. It is not only evil but militarily stupid. You can turn a people who would have given in into resisting you until the end of time by unjustifiable cruelty. If Islam was smart they would leave the US alone until we bankrupted ourselves, and leave Israel alone all together. I don't think you agree with them but do you you even know how they think this will end? How does the mouse think biting the tiger is going to turn out? Do they not teach what the US did in WW2 or is capable of in modern times in Islamic schools? Isus kept going and now they have JADAMS and ASROCS down their throats, how is this wise or good for anyone? Again I am not suggesting you agree with them.

Simply because they didn't destroy it but others did in the name of Islam, if Muslims would do such a thing then they were able to do it hundreds of years ago.

 

[1robin]

How is that comparable to Hitler.

First, of all it was way way worse. Deaths in WW2 on all sides were 50 million. Deaths in the Islamic genocide in Indian were in the many hundreds of millions. Second, WW2 in general was not a genocide it was unjustifiable war not murder based on culture or race. Last, it is not much of a compliment that something was not as bad as Hitler, even if it is true.

And many Muslim nations have churches,Christians and Jews living in peace.

That has no effect on what I said.

You are speaking about Mohammed PBUH with certainty as if you lived and witnessed the events of that era.

No, I am speaking based on the words of those who lived along side him and what Muslims claim are his own words. Everything I stated is in the Quran or historical records of the period.

Simply because they didn't destroy it but others did in the name of Islam, if Muslims would do such a thing then they were able to do it hundreds of years ago.

What? I, you, and everyone who has ever lived came up with new ways to screw up over our whole lives, we had not done before. Regardless Isus in the name of Islam destroyed the tomb and claimed responsibility for it. Islam seems to daily strive to out due even it's most evil and senseless deeds of the past. I expected you to either give me the reason or admit you do not know it. Not give me irrationality to distract from not having a reasonable answer. Trying to defend what can't be or changing the subject so you do not have to just makes it worse.

 

[FearGod]

First, of all it was way way worse. Deaths in WW2 on all sides were 50 million. Deaths in the Islamic genocide in Indian were in the many hundreds of millions. Second, WW2 in general was not a genocide it was unjustifiable war not murder based on culture or race. Last, it is not much of a compliment that something was not as bad as Hitler, even if it is true.

Population of India today is about 1.3 billion whereas red Indians were extincted due to Europeans invaders.

Do you claim that there were statistics and records for the population before 1400 years ago so that you can know how many Indians were killed during the ancient wars.

No, I am speaking based on the words of those who lived along side him and what Muslims claim are his own words. Everything I stated is in the Quran or historical records of the period.

The records show that Arabs were atheists and ignorant then by Mohammed's message they became theists and No.1 in the ancient world that they were able to reach the far west of Europe and recover Europe from the dark ages by conveying knowledge and science to Europe in Spain (Andalusia)

What? I, you, and everyone who has ever lived came up with new ways to screw up over our whole lives, we had not done before. Regardless Isus in the name of Islam destroyed the tomb and claimed responsibility for it. Islam seems to daily strive to out due even it's most evil and senseless deeds of the past. I expected you to either give me the reason or admit you do not know it. Not give me irrationality to distract from not having a reasonable answer. Trying to defend what can't be or changing the subject so you do not have to just makes it worse.

If muslims wanted to destroy the churches and the christian figures then they were able to do it easily hundreds of years ago.

 

[Shad]

Many churches were converted to mosques such as the Hagia Sophia. Iconoclast of mosaics is evident as well. One does not need to physically destroy a structure or figure to undermine another religion or to oppress it. Iconoclast was doctrine for many and was not for other as well. It is not a black nor white view.

Arabs were not solely atheist, they were Polytheist, Christians, Jews, etc. Also Arabs become a dominate power not because they were #1. They like all intelligent people assimilated previous knowledge and continued the progress of old ideas while developing new ideas. They conquered a vast area with many different ideas. Some views were accept, some views were not. Sorry but you are completely wrong about Pre-Islamic Arabia which is even supported with verses within the Quran and Hadith texts.

Back on topic

I think the idea that Islam was spread by the sword is not accurate. Now there are cases in India and the Caspian steppes of both forced conversion or rejection of conversion due to dependance on jizya and the goals of various rulers. However I would say Islam was spread in the wake of the sword. The sword of conquest rather than the sword of forced conversions. Also many of the systems implemented provide incentives for conversion such as the tax system. There is also the case of Arab Christians which paid zakat rather than jizya due to being a part of the military structure of the early 4/5 caliphs. There was also cultural assimilation of Christian in Spain in which many adopted the culture but not the religion. these people were later persecuted by Spain post-reconquest.

If people only take positive or negative examples while omitting the opposite history is distorted and generalization can be made to support either. This is honestly what I see between FearGod and 1robin. Individual cases should be analysed case by case. So while a case could be made for the harsh or positive treatment within locale. It should not be used as a generalization for or against. For example Muslim Spain in it's first few centuries was tolerant, it later centuries were not. So Islam within a locale was used to support both policies at different times. This is due to the fact that scripture is open to interpretation and has been used for both examples.

Sorry for butting into a conversation already in progress.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

How is that comparable to Hitler.



And many Muslim nations have churches,Christians and Jews living in peace.




You are speaking about Mohammed PBUH with certainty as if you lived and witnessed the events of that era.



Simply because they didn't destroy it but others did in the name of Islam, if Muslims would do such a thing then they were able to do it hundreds of years ago.

<And many Muslim nations have churches,Christians and Jews living in peace.>
i think you closed your eyes
do you know what happend in iraq
or in syria
or egept
i think you live in moon or dream
do you know al-theme and what meaning
this word al theme mening
the chritean in islam nation is not equal with muslm
yes islam spread in many nation
but spread in that 6 reason i am write
- it called the-Carrot and stick
this two way to spread islam in all nation
carrot --with eay to marrige
and Booty and The pleasures of paradise in the islam

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

any jews live in peace in arab nation
or any christean
during all arab knew regime
the christean --calld -- <al- theme >
i think fear god use al -taqea
al-theme > this is important in islamic law
and all muslim student this

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

hitler --
during second war
are hitler
use any verse from bibl
are hitler say he want to chang your religin
all islam war used verse from qouran

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

al -jehad --
this principl --
is meaning --
the muslim fathing all time
by sowrd or klashinkof
al -jehad meaning --the fathing all time

 

[paarsurrey]

Was Islam spread by the sword?

No.

For example:

Spread of Islam in Kenya:

Organized Missionary activities[edit]

Pioneer Muslim missionaries to the interior were largely Tanganyikans, who coupled their missionary work with trade, along the centres began along the railway line, such as, Kibwezi, Makindu and Nairobi.

Outstanding amongst them was Maalim Mtondo, a Tanganyikan credited with being the first Muslim missionary to Nairobi. Reaching Nairobi at the close of the Nineteenth Century, he led a group of other Muslims, and enthusiastic missionaries from the coast to establish a ‘Swahili village’ in the present day Pumwani.

A small mosque was built to serve as a starting point and he began preaching Islam in earnest. He soon attracted several Kikuyus and Wakambas, who became his disciples.[14]

Local men converted and having learned from their teachers took up the leadership of religious matters. Khamis Ngige was a prominent local convert of the early outreach. Having learned from Maalim Mtondo, he later became the Imam of the Pumwani Mosque. Different preachers scattered in the countryside from 1900 to 1920, introducing Islam to areas around, Mt. Kenya, Murang’a, Embu, Meru, Nyeri and Kitui. This serious missionary move interior was out of personal enthusiasm with the influence being highly localized. Only a few Africans were converted, and the impact was short lived.[16]

Islam in Kenya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Kenya.

Do you see any? Please

Regards

 

[1robin]

Population of India today is about 1.3 billion whereas red Indians were extincted due to Europeans invaders.

I am a red Indian. I am a member of one of the most devastated tribes, the Cherokees. First the Indians were never wiped out. They were assimilated and have generally mixed with the population. Second what did wipe out many of them was diseases carried by pigs used for food by Spanish settlers and stole or bought by the Indians. No where near as many American Indians died as did Indian Indians. There were less than 20 million Indians in the US and Canada combined to begin with. 90% of those that died, died as a result of a disease which was not used as a weapon. However even if it was it still killed less than one American Indian for every 1000 Indian Indians the Muslims killed intentionally. Third most of the deaths in battle were Indian against Indian. By the time Europeans got here tyrannical and dominant tribes had been suppressing their neighbors for decades. With their help the India's rebelled against the tormentors and did most of the killing, not the Europeans.

So far given two chances to explain the greatest genocide in history and Islam's role in it you have instead tried to compare it to Hitler which was not even close and the conquests which was not even in the same ball park even without apparently knowing anything about either of them. For instance the Muslims fought with Hitler not against him. Trying to cover a crime with a bigger crime (which in reality is a far smaller one) is rationalization and not a responsible defense.

Do you claim that there were statistics and records for the population before 1400 years ago so that you can know how many Indians were killed during the ancient wars.

Not with perfect certainty but easily within generalities. However if we can't then why are you using them as a defense? I have read about Cortez and his conquest since I was a kid. It is the greatest conquest in history and he one of it's greatest leaders (great as in capable not necessarily morally good) he conquered a nation of 20 million with less than 1000 soldiers. I have read enough about it to know in general how many and by what causes died. 80% unintentionally by diseases (BTW the Spaniards carried diseases back to Europe which wiped many of them out as well), 15% from the Indians that the Aztecs and Inca had enslaved and abused, and 5% from Cortez' men. Even if Cortez had killed every human on both continents of the Americans it would not have been half of what Islam did in India nor would it do the slightest thing to excuse it. But he didn't, he actually killed less than 10,000 people compared to Islam's hundreds of millions just in India alone.

The records show that Arabs were atheists and ignorant then by Mohammed's message they became theists and No.1 in the ancient world that they were able to reach the far west of Europe and recover Europe from the dark ages by conveying knowledge and science to Europe in Spain (Andalusia)

No the records show they had wide and varied beliefs usually concerning local Gods'. In Muhammad's ignorance he probably considered them all atheists so he could impose his will on them by some mandate to suppress the unbelievers that terrorist use to this day. I doubt he met a single person without belief in some God or another. Atheism just was not much of an option in his day or previous to it. The Arabs themselves were pagans not atheists and the only thing Muhammad did was chose on of their God's and compel by force of bribery all the tribes to unite under that one deity. What he did is mildly impressive military but deplorable theologically. It had been done many times before him and many times after and done on much larger scales. He did nothing new and most cultures have their day in the sun and then fade into obscurity. Nothing special about it.

If muslims wanted to destroy the churches and the christian figures then they were able to do it easily hundreds of years ago.

That is irrelevant, they did in fact destroy them a few days ago. I asked why? I guess your only response is to try and distract or cover up things. Never mind, you don't know apparently, fine.

 

[gnostic]

Muhammad letting hundreds of the male of Banu Qurayza being beheaded, with exception of few who did convert and were spared, is 100% compulsion.

And women and children being sold to slavery, only showed that Muhammad was interested in loots or booty. How else was he to finance his men or his growing army?

And before he had army, he and his followers resorted to raiding caravans, so they were interested in loots and plunders, so he is not just a prophet, but a warlord or pirate.

He is supposed to bring new religion with new law and new justice, but I don't see why people would worship him as a prophet when he acted no differently to Somali pirates that attack ships between 2005 and 2010.

I don't know why Muslims are blind to this.

 

[Looncall]

That is my point. Islam didn't come to confirm slavery. It came to stop slavery. But it did this in steps. This is why I referred to my other link which includes verses from the Quraan and some Hadith of the prophet on how to treat slaves. Islam made freeing slaves a "number one" good deed one can do.

The only case in Islam where there was taking of slaves is when the enemy is taking slaves too as I explained the reason.

Islam main approach was freeing them and making them part of society, a society which is free of racism.

This is outright false.

Muslims raided other countries to snatch people for slaves. They did this far and wide, for hundreds of years. Some still do it. Consider the antics of Boko haram and ISIS.

Muslim societies are notoriously racist. Consider the plight of guest workers in the gulf states.

 

[Ryujin]

This is outright false.

Muslims raided other countries to snatch people for slaves. They did this far and wide, for hundreds of years. Some still do it. Consider the antics of Boko haram and ISIS.

Muslim societies are notoriously racist. Consider the plight of guest workers in the gulf states.

Except, I must point out, against Africans. After all, it was a freed black Ethiopian slave who started the tradition of the call to prayer.