Was Islam spread by the sword?

[FearGod]

I have had several Muslims confirm that the following process is considered valid by many Muslims. (To be fair, I've also been told by some Muslims that this is inaccurate.)

1 - A Muslim army enters a non-Islamic region.
2 - The Muslims generals offer the people in the region the chance to convert to Islam.
3 - If the people refuse, the Muslim generals offer them the chance to become second class dhimmis, ruled by the Muslims.
4 - If the people still refuse, they are considered to be "attacking Islam" and the Islamic army can attack the non-Muslims and call it a "defensive action".

Don't you pay taxes for your government ?

 

[England my lionheart]

Don't you pay taxes for your government ?

Yes there's tax,we get taxed from birth to death but we don't have to be invaded first before we pay it.

 

[Poeticus]

Don't you pay taxes for your government ?

You are proposing a false correlation:

The notion purported by apologetics that a religious tax is no different than the taxes proposed and collected under secular governments is not only misleading but ultimately a false correlation. A tax under secular governments is not theological in orientation. A religious tax, on the other hand, is imposed out of the rigorist colloquial best described as the following: the perpetual reiteration of the superiority of one's religious conviction. A secular tax is not meant to discriminate; the mere act of collecting revenue from non-members through a religious tax, on the other hand, is radically discriminatory: it is segregating and hierarchal at its very core. In essence, the reality of a religious tax would be no different than slaves paying more than freedmen---either through monetary means or through physical restitutions. In a rational world or setting, religious taxes are abominably backward and their very existence is heinous. It indirectly invades the pluralistic notion of freedom of thought and deed; and monetarily suppresses it in the long-run.

 

[paarsurrey]

Was Islam spread by the sword?

No.

For example:

Spread of Islam in Sudan: [5]

Islam is the largest religion in Sudan, and Muslims have dominated national government institutions since independence in 1956. According to UNDP Sudan, the Muslim population is 97%,[1] including numerous Arab and non-Arab groups.

Ethnicity of the Muslim population in Sudan

Nubians

In the early 1990s, the Nubians were the second most significant Muslim group in Sudan, their homeland being the Nile River valley in far northern Sudan and southern Egypt. Other, much smaller groups speaking a related language and claiming a link with the Nile Nubians have been given local names, such as the Birqidand the Meidab in Darfur State. Almost all Nile Nubians speak Arabic as a second language; some near Dunqulah have been largely arabized and are referred to asDanaqla.

In the mid-1960s, in anticipation of the flooding of their lands after the construction of the Aswan High Dam, 35,000 to 50,000 Nile Nubians resettled at Khashm al Qirbah on the Atbarah River in what was then Kassala Province. It is not clear how many Nubians remained in the Nile Valley. Even before the resettlement, many had left the valley for varying lengths of time to work in the towns, although most sought to maintain a link with their traditional homeland. In the 1955-56 census, more Nile Nubians were counted in Khartoum Province than in the Nubian country to the north.

A similar pattern of work in the towns was apparently followed by those resettled at Khashm al Qirbah. Many Nubians there retained their tenancies, having kin oversee the land and hiring non-Nubians to work it. The Nubians, often with their families, worked in Khartoum, the town of Kassala, and Port Sudan. Renowned for their prestigious history and their unique and ancient culture, Nubians have the highest degree of literacy and assumed control of vital governmental offices throughout the history of the Sudan. Despite their knowledge of Arabic and their devotion to Islam, Nubians retained a considerable self-consciousness and tended to maintain tightly knit communities of their own in the towns.

Beja

The Beja have lived in the Red Sea Hills since ancient times. Arab influence was not significant until a millennium or so ago, but it has since led the Beja to adopt Islam and genealogies that link them to Arab ancestors, to arabize their names, and to include many Arabic terms in their language. Although some Arabs figure in the ancestry of the Beja, the group is mostly descended from an indigenous population, and they have not become generally arabized. Their language (Bedawiye) links them to Cu****ic-speaking peoples farther south.

In the 1990s, most Beja belonged to one of four groups — the Bisharin, the Amarar, the Hadendowa, and the Bani Amir. The largest group was the Hadendowa, but the Bisharin had the most territory, with settled tribes living on the Atbarah River in the far south of the Beja range and nomads living in the north. A good number of the Hadendowa were also settled and engaged in agriculture, particularly in the coastal region near Tawkar, but many remained nomads.

The Amarar, living in the central part of the Beja range, seemed to be largely nomads, as were the second largest group, the Bani Amir, who lived along the border with northern Ethiopia. The precise proportion of nomads in the Beja population in the early 1990s was not known, but it was far greater relatively than the nomadic component of the Arab population. The Beja were characterized as conservative, proud, and aloof even toward other Beja and very reticent in relations with strangers. They were long reluctant to accept the authority of central governments.


Islam in Sudan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Sudan.

Regards

 

[FearGod]

Yes there's tax,we get taxed from birth to death but we don't have to be invaded first before we pay it.

If in a case that you were invaded and the new government asked for the tax,
will you refuse to pay the tax and then declare the war against the new government, regardless of what religion the new government follow.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

The prophet fought those who fought him, his mission was to convey the message.

They tried to stop him by force and the prophet with the believers won and the message conveyed to east and west.

Any type of message, which carried Mohammad
Message in blood
And injustice
And slaves
Death message
Message sex infinity in Islamic paradise
Paradise as well as albakrat Mohammed and alleged gods
Or an oppression of women
That message carried to the world is the devil

 

[outhouse]

I don't see

We know.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Just a myth.



Just stories



The prophet actually wasn't poor and his wife was the richest woman in quraish,she was the first woman to accept Islam since she knows him very well as a very sincere man.

You only like to pick up the bad false stories about the prophet while you reject the stories which prove him as a prophet.



Defending what ? the stories



You only don't like to hear the good stories about the prophet, so nothing will change your mind about him.



Only the stupid wars, what about believing about the sacrifice of Jesus by killing himself on the cross to pay for the sins of the evil ones,then crying with pain for his father in heaven which is him.

Mark 15:34
And at three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?").




I believe that Christianity and atheism is the same thing, but in Christianity you can do any sin and believe on Christ for salvation whereas atheists may do sins without believing about salvation by a man called Jesus.

Whenever a Muslim saying right in question starts to attack creed
And even this does not work
That faith in Jesus alone is not enough to salvation
But its work
Combine work and faith
Christ our example to work
Honest pure chaste
Not like mhamdk shahwani sexual killer
So you don't stab at Christianity but spoke on the topic and not go out with him

 

[paarsurrey]

I have had several Muslims confirm that the following process is considered valid by many Muslims. (To be fair, I've also been told by some Muslims that this is inaccurate.)

1 - A Muslim army enters a non-Islamic region.
2 - The Muslims generals offer the people in the region the chance to convert to Islam.
3 - If the people refuse, the Muslim generals offer them the chance to become second class dhimmis, ruled by the Muslims.
4 - If the people still refuse, they are considered to be "attacking Islam" and the Islamic army can attack the non-Muslims and call it a "defensive action".

Please quote from Quran for all the above points and then prove your viewpoint.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Well the rarity of truth I see did not even survive the night. Which on is true?

1. The prophet commanded the believers to convey the message after his death.
2. then the prophet fought to spread the message

Both are your words. I imagine both are true.

The first point is true.
Please quote from Quran for your second point.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Was Islam spread by the sword?

No.

For example:

Spread of Islam in Sudan: [6]

Islam is the largest religion in Sudan, and Muslims have dominated national government institutions since independence in 1956. According to UNDP Sudan, the Muslim population is 97%,[1] including numerous Arab and non-Arab groups.

Ethnicity of the Muslim population in Sudan

Fur[edit]

The Fur, ruled until 1916 by an independent sultanate (Darfur) and oriented politically and culturally to peoples in Chad, were a sedentary, cultivating group long settled on and around the Jabal Marrah. Although the ruling dynasty and the peoples of the area had long been Muslims, they have not been arabized. Livestock has played a small part in the subsistence of most Fur. Those who acquired a substantial herd of cattle could maintain it only by living like the neighboring Baqqara Arabs, and those who persisted in this pattern eventually came to be thought of as Baqqara.

Zaghawa[edit]

See also: Zaghawa
Living on the plateau north of the Fur were the seminomadic people calling themselves Beri and known to the Arabs as Zaghawa. Large numbers of the group lived in Chad. Herders of cattle, camels, sheep, and goats, the Zaghawa also gained a substantial part of their livelihood by gathering wild grains and other products. Cultivation had become increasingly important but remained risky, and the people reverted to gathering in times of drought. Converted to Islam, the Zaghawanevertheless retain much of their traditional religious orientation.


Islam in Sudan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Sudan.

Regards

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

to paarsurrey
You Parrot Islamic class
Don't you speak something useful
We told you the reasons for the spread of Islam in some States
Mohammed, who was killed in a heinous manner pangolin
There can be a prophet
And who see cutting heads 500 Jews cannot be a prophet
Islam spread by the sword remains belsiv
Lift the sword and you'll see how the nascent Islam

 

[paarsurrey]

to paarsurrey
You Parrot Islamic class
Don't you speak something useful
We told you the reasons for the spread of Islam in some States
Mohammed, who was killed in a heinous manner pangolin
There can be a prophet
And who see cutting heads 500 Jews cannot be a prophet
Islam spread by the sword remains belsiv
Lift the sword and you'll see how the nascent Islam

Please quote from Quran in this connection.
Moses killed 3000 Jews; and yet he was prophet.
Wasn't Moses a prophet?

Regards

 

[1robin]

Don't you pay taxes for your government ?

You know very well that is not the issue here. Our taxes are not more for non-Christians. That is the issue. We do not oppress anyone for not doing things our way.

 

[1robin]

The first point is true.
Please quote from Quran for your second point.
Regards

It was not my claim. It was your Muslim partner in here who said that.

 

[paarsurrey]

He fought everyone around him. Women, poets, writers, caravan drivers, Jews who would not obey he threaten them with death in signing. I have many times listed his first major battles. I do not think a single one was self defense and even in his words some were his idea alone. Claiming he was always defending anything is the biggest historical joke there is.


Lets start at the beginning. His first battle was against a caravan or would have been. He found his ambush was outnumbered and he called it off. Now did Allah order this and Muhammad fail or did Muhammad order it and chicken out.

The first battle he chose to fight in was Badr. IN his companions words it was solely because that years caravans were rich. Muhammad was specifically asked if it was Allah's command or his own. He responded it was his.

That is the first two. We can go to number 3 and so if you want but so far no one has even hinted at anything defensive for the first two.

You gained a point of credibility in your former position but lost ten when you instantly contradicted your self.

I admit and condemn Christianity's stupid wars most of the time. Until you can be historically honest you will never be credible.

BTW He was poisoned by the wife of a man he killed and Islam instantly fell into civil war. How is that a win? Christianity is the only faith that spread to every nation on earth to any significant degree and exploded in history without drawing a sword. Now that is a win.

Lets start at the beginning. His first battle was against a caravan or would have been. He found his ambush was outnumbered and he called it off. Now did Allah order this and Muhammad fail or did Muhammad order it and chicken out.

Let the beginning be from the beginning when Muhammad was at Mecca. How did the Meccans treat peaceful Muhammad and his peaceful followers?

Regards

 

[1robin]

Just a myth.

Yeah,, about as much myth as the fall of Rome. Denial of historical fact without even a hint of a reason costs credibility, and Islam has little to spare.

Just stories

Denial of historical fact without even a hint of a reason costs credibility, and Islam has little to spare.

The prophet actually wasn't poor and his wife was the richest woman in quraish,she was the first woman to accept Islam since she knows him very well as a very sincere man.

I never said he was poor. The greediest people in history are rich people. Muhammad did not have enough money personally to finance Jihad on an industrial scale. He needed more and took it in the Arab time honored tradition of raiding caravans.

You only like to pick up the bad false stories about the prophet while you reject the stories which prove him as a prophet.

You only like to revise history until it fits your premade mold which has no relevance to truth. I'm arguing against Islam not for it. Of course I am using negative facts, and there is an inexhaustible supply of them. Some good stories sprinkled in with story so abominable won't make trash smell like a rose.

Defending what ? the stories

Yeah, Islamic stories from Islamic sources like Muhammad's companions. You know, history. Real history, not pie in the sky Islamic revisionist history.

You only don't like to hear the good stories about the prophet, so nothing will change your mind about him.

Even with the good stories my mind shouldn't be changed about him. I do not have to balance in negative stories about Christ with some invented history I made up. He was what a prophet should have been, just and Godly.

Only the stupid wars, what about believing about the sacrifice of Jesus by killing himself on the cross to pay for the sins of the evil ones,then crying with pain for his father in heaven which is him.

I am aware of Christian doctrine. What I am not aware is what the problem is here. What a person who has rejected IMO the true God thinks is silly is not an argument.

Mark 15:34
And at three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?").

Yeah, I have read the bible. What is the point?

I believe that Christianity and atheism is the same thing, but in Christianity you can do any sin and believe on Christ for salvation whereas atheists may do sins without believing about salvation by a man called Jesus.

Well I see that the actual history (even Muhammad's earliest history long before the cycle of blood really got going) is once again not even acknowledged. Instead you have switched to a whole new subject and coughed up opinion after opinion and historical inaccuracy. Answer my questions and claims and then we can get to your opinions.

 

[outhouse]

from your own words.






The Nubian Christian kingdoms of Nobatia, Makuriaand Alodia fell to the Islamic invasions in 650, 1312


Can you even read English?

what about this sword play?


WHY DO YOU IGNORE FACTS FROM YOUR OWN LINK?

 

[paarsurrey]

Wars and battles take place for many reasons; not necessarily for spreading or conversions.

Now tell us from history, one is obsessed with:

Do all wars/battles/invasions take place for spreading or conversion of religion?

Regards

 

[outhouse]

Wars and battles take place for many reasons; not necessarily for spreading or conversions.

Factually some do.


WHY DO YOU IGNORE FACTS FROM YOUR OWN LINK?