Was Islam spread by the sword?

[England my lionheart]

Good gracious. I thought my claim was damning but that guy appears to have been the anti-Christ or worse. Imagine how much would have been avoided if Churchill had actually assassinated Hitler in 37 like he wanted to.

Killing Hitler wouldn't have been enough,there was still Himmler Borman goring and co,it could have been harder to defeat Germany and it's allies because if a general of the likes of guderian or Rommel got to orchestrate the war Germany would have kept a good portion of what it gained from the war,that's just my opinion though.

 

[outhouse]

Only because peace makes no news; and extremism gets everybody's attention immediately.

Regards

the whole religion is extreme though

 

[YmirGF]

the whole religion is extreme though

It is so extreme that most there don't consider it extreme at all.

 

[outhouse]

It is so extreme that most there don't consider it extreme at all.

Most of the followers, or western countries?



Do you call YEC extreme?


I guess we would have to define extreme

 

[YmirGF]

Most of the followers, or western countries?

In the Middle East and Muslim majority countries. In the West, they are kitty-cats.

Do you call YEC extreme?

Yes, I'd be inclined to label them as being extremist.

I guess we would have to define extreme

Um, fanatical confirmation bias?

 

[England my lionheart]

Only because peace makes no news; and extremism gets everybody's attention immediately.

Regards

I think you make a fair point but i think yours and the other proselytising religion extreme because it's all held together with threats of the fire the lash and being ok about having a slave,not just of the body though but of the conscience too.

 

[England my lionheart]

It is so extreme that most there don't consider it extreme at all.

Monkey see monkey do,it's the norm,the Monkey has little choice in doing what it sees though,how sad.

 

[1robin]

Killing Hitler wouldn't have been enough,there was still Himmler Borman goring and co,it could have been harder to defeat Germany and it's allies because if a general of the likes of guderian or Rommel got to orchestrate the war Germany would have kept a good portion of what it gained from the war,that's just my opinion though.

There never will be a shorting of those who need shooting but I doubt any of the would have been much without Hitler. Hitler was no smart but his timing was impeccable in his rise to power. It is hard to see anyone doing what he did. Not that there are not plenty who wish they could.

Rommel and Guderian would have furthered anyone's military aims but Hitler gave them an opportunity. You would not have stopped evil by killing Hitler but you would have certainly given it a hair cut of epic proportions. There are countless Himmler's, Bruckner, Eckhart, Goebbels, Frick and the like are followers and are not a strategic threat without anyone to follow.

 

[outhouse]

Yes, I'd be inclined to label them as being extremist.

muslims use the exact same methodology.


The text become more important then reality. The problem is it is all muslims, not a minority like YEC are.

The second you shut the door on reality, education and knowledge, you use fanaticism and fundamentalism as a replacement, as your conclusion have been made before knowing the question.

They are all literalist.

 

[1robin]

Only because peace makes no news; and extremism gets everybody's attention immediately.

Regards

Either there are etiquette cops in Iran or not. Honor killing occur wit regularity in Saudi Arabia or not. Either there is a risk to life to concert out of Islam in much of Islamic history or not. Sensationalism can't make these practices begin. Muhammad not only killed prisoners but practiced crucifixion and claimed it was from the Quran. I would hope the news would amplify these things so they can be dealt with but it can't create them. Also remember that these are well known despite most Islamic countries strictly controlling the press. Israel has the only free press in the area. How much worse things actually are would probably be heartbreaking? Where is the Christian sensationalized terrorism, death penalties for apostasy, etiquette police. The worst thing I can think of for Christianity in the past 40 years is one preacher threatening to burn a Quran. I'm sure there is worse but I have not seen nightly examples of it in the news. Who are we beheading? Where are we marching in the streets yelling death to the middle east? Who do we deny the right to exist at all?

 

[1robin]

It is so extreme that most there don't consider it extreme at all.

If killing hundreds of kids trying to tunnel into another nation in "defense" of your nation given to you by the nation you are attacking is not extreme what would be? I bet the people shooting rockets from day cares at anyone who they happen to hit would claim that preacher who threaten to burn the Quran was the extremist. When ten thousand are chanting death to America as the trade centers burn does extreme even have a meaning any longer?

 

[England my lionheart]

There never will be a shorting of those who need shooting but I doubt any of the would have been much without Hitler. Hitler was no smart but his timing was impeccable in his rise to power. It is hard to see anyone doing what he did. Not that there are not plenty who wish they could.

Rommel and Guderian would have furthered anyone's military aims but Hitler gave them an opportunity. You would not have stopped evil by killing Hitler but you would have certainly given it a hair cut of epic proportions. There are countless Himmler's, Bruckner, Eckhart, Goebbels, Frick and the like are followers and are not a strategic threat without anyone to follow

There wasn't a choice whether to follow him though much like people born and groomed into a religion don't either,there's a punishment if you don't,of course this just my opinion.

 

[1robin]

There wasn't a choice whether to follow him though much like people born and groomed into a religion don't either,there's a punishment if you don't,of course this just my opinion.

A choice was irrelevant for the point under discussion. My point was without him they would have probably never been a significant threat. Hitler was a moron but it is hard to see anyone else who would have pulled off what he did. Shooting Hitler in 37 would have in all probability spared tens of millions even if the rest of those idiots would have still continued on.

 

[paarsurrey]

Was Islam spread by the sword?

No.

For example:

Spread of Islam in Sudan: [2]

Islam is the largest religion in Sudan, and Muslims have dominated national government institutions since independence in 1956. According to UNDP Sudan, the Muslim population is 97%,[1] including numerous Arab and non-Arab groups.

History

There had been cultural contact between Nubians and Arabs long before the rise of Islam. Islam spread to Sudan from the north, after the Islamic conquest of Egypt. Nubia had already been Christianized, also from Egypt, hence the old Nubian church followed Coptic Christianity. The Nubian Christian kingdoms of Nobatia, Makuriaand Alodia fell to the Islamic invasions in 650, 1312 and 1504, respectively. From 1504, northern Sudan was ruled by the Muslim Funj Sultanate.

Southern Sudan, i.e. South Kordofan and what is now South Sudan, is part of Sub-Saharan Africa and was neither Christianized nor Islamized until the 19th century. This region fell under Islamic rule under Muhammad Ali, and there has been religious and ethnic conflict ever since; the Mahdiyah uprisings (1881-1899) can even be seen as the origin of political Islamism and resulted in British control during 1899-1955.

Racial and religious conflicts between the Arab Muslim north and the Black African Christian South re-erupted in the First Sudanese Civil War (1955-1972), the Second Sudanese Civil War (1983-2005), the War in Darfur (2003-2010) and the ongoing conflict (since 2011).


Islam in Sudan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Sudan.

Regards

 

[outhouse]

Was Islam spread by the sword?

No.

For example:

Spread of Islam in Sudan: [2]

Islam is the largest religion in Sudan, and Muslims have dominated national government institutions since independence in 1956. According to UNDP Sudan, the Muslim population is 97%,[1] including numerous Arab and non-Arab groups.

History

There had been cultural contact between Nubians and Arabs long before the rise of Islam. Islam spread to Sudan from the north, after the Islamic conquest of Egypt. Nubia had already been Christianized, also from Egypt, hence the old Nubian church followed Coptic Christianity. The Nubian Christian kingdoms of Nobatia, Makuriaand Alodia fell to the Islamic invasions in 650, 1312 and 1504, respectively. From 1504, northern Sudan was ruled by the Muslim Funj Sultanate.

Southern Sudan, i.e. South Kordofan and what is now South Sudan, is part of Sub-Saharan Africa and was neither Christianized nor Islamized until the 19th century. This region fell under Islamic rule under Muhammad Ali, and there has been religious and ethnic conflict ever since; the Mahdiyah uprisings (1881-1899) can even be seen as the origin of political Islamism and resulted in British control during 1899-1955.

Racial and religious conflicts between the Arab Muslim north and the Black African Christian South re-erupted in the First Sudanese Civil War (1955-1972), the Second Sudanese Civil War (1983-2005), the War in Darfur (2003-2010) and the ongoing conflict (since 2011).


Islam in Sudan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Sudan.

Regards

from your own words.






The Nubian Christian kingdoms of Nobatia, Makuriaand Alodia fell to the Islamic invasions in 650, 1312


Can you even read English?

 

[FearGod]

The prophet sent letters to spread the message in peaceful way, but once the ruler prevent the message from reaching his people then the prophet fought to spread the message and not for any thing else, it started from homeland when they fought him as to prevent him from spreading the message till it reached all parts of the world at that time, so the message reached by peace and by force but the religion itself was never forced on people.

Hope the puzzle is solved.

 

[Shad]

Paar provide a source a number of pages ago which used Muslim sources to confirm that there were forced conversions. He didn't bother reading the source beyond his confirmation bias so missed it.

 

[1robin]

The prophet sent letters to spread the message in peaceful way, but once the ruler prevent the message from reaching his people then the prophet fought to spread the message and not for any thing else, it started from homeland when they fought him as to prevent him from spreading the message till it reached all parts of the world at that time, so the message reached by peace and by force but the religion itself was never forced on people.

Hope the puzzle is solved.

I think we have an admission and a relief to finally see what has been warranted for some time. Islam was spread by the sword. Ok, maybe it's still true. At least we can agree on reality to begin with here.


BTW Islam did not even reach a meaningful percentage of the world during Muhammad's life. Why was that even a goal?

 

[FearGod]

I think we have an admission and a relief to finally see what has been warranted for some time. Islam was spread by the sword. Ok, maybe it's still true. At least we can agree on reality to begin with here.


BTW Islam did not even reach a meaningful percentage of the world during Muhammad's life. Why was that even a goal?

The prophet commanded the believers to convey the message after his death.

[youtube]i3Xc1MfX9X8[/youtube]
The Prophet Muhammad's Last Sermon - YouTube

 

[paarsurrey]

The prophet sent letters to spread the message in peaceful way, but once the ruler prevent the message from reaching his people then the prophet fought to spread the message and not for any thing else, it started from homeland when they fought him as to prevent him from spreading the message till it reached all parts of the world at that time, so the message reached by peace and by force but the religion itself was never forced on people.

Hope the puzzle is solved.

I don't agree with you.
No war was fought for spreading Islam in the world by Muhammad.

Regards