Was Islam spread by the sword?

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

For the convenience of my friends I have given part two of the article on Islam in Tunisia.

Now the article is complete.

Regards

Parrot Islamic class
And also recording device
From luxury

 

[paarsurrey]

Was Islam spread by the sword?

No.

For example:

Spread of Islam in Uganda:

According to the National Census 2002 Islam is practiced by 12.1 percent of the population.[1] The vast majority of Muslims in Uganda are Sunni. Small Shia and Ahmadi minorities are also present.[2]
The Iganga District in the east of Uganda has the highest percentage of Muslims.[3]

History[edit]

Islam had arrived in Uganda from the north and through inland networks of the East African coastal trade by the mid-nineteenth century. Some Baganda Muslims trace their family's conversion to the period in which the kabaka Mutesa I converted to Islam in the nineteenth century.

Islam after independence[edit]

When Idi Amin, a Ugandan Muslim, became president in 1971, his presidency seemed to be a victory for Uganda's Muslim community. Then in 1972, Amin's expulsion of Asians from Uganda reduced the Muslim population significantly. As his administration deteriorated into a brutal and unsuccessful regime, Uganda's Muslims began to distance themselves from those in power.

After Amin's overthrow in 1979, Muslims became the victims of the backlash that was directed primarily against the Kakwa andNubian ethnic groups who had supported Amin. Yusuf Lule, who served a brief term as president from 1979 to 1980, was also a Muslim (and a Muganda). He was not a skillful politician, but he was successful in reducing the public stigma attached to Islam.

In 1989 President Yoweri Museveni appealed to Uganda's Muslim community to contribute to national reconstruction, and he warned other Ugandans not to discriminate against Muslims. But at the same time, Museveni admonished Ugandans to avoid "sectarian" allegiances, and this warning was directed at the Islamic community as well as other ethnic and religious groups.
The Islamic University in Uganda is one of Uganda's premier institutes of Islamic teaching. It is located in Mbale in the foothills of Mount Elgon.

Recent Statistics[edit]

The 2002 national census recorded that Muslims represented 12.1% of the population.[1]

Islam in Uganda - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Islam in Uganda.

Regards

 

[1robin]

I don't agree with you.

Please see post #1238 again. It clearly quoted me not from somebody else:

I have read these posts and this discussion goes back way further than #1238. BTW I never said it was not you who responded. I said someone else, meaning it was not me.

Here is the original post that began the conversation that was soon after derailed by others (yes that includes you).

He fought everyone around him. Women, poets, writers, caravan drivers, Jews who would not obey a treaty he threatened them with death in signing. I have many times listed his first major battles. I do not think a single one was self defense and even in his words some were his idea alone. Claiming he was always defending anything is the biggest historical joke there is.

Lets start at the beginning. His first battle was against a caravan or would have been. He found his ambush was outnumbered and he called it off. Now did Allah order this and Muhammad fail or did Muhammad order it and chicken out.

The first battle he chose to fight in was Badr. IN his companions words it was solely because that years caravans were rich. Muhammad was specifically asked if it was Allah's command or his own. He responded it was his.

That is the first two. We can go to number 3 and so if you want but so far no one has even hinted at anything defensive for the first two.

You gained a point of credibility in your former position but lost ten when you instantly contradicted your self.

I admit and condemn Christianity's stupid wars most of the time. Until you can be historically honest you will never be credible.

BTW He was poisoned by the wife of a man he killed and Islam instantly fell into civil war. How is that a win? Christianity is the only faith that spread to every nation on earth to any significant degree and exploded in history without drawing a sword. Now that is a win.

As you can see the discussion was about Islam's violence. I started with his first military campaigns as would be the obvious natural starting point. If I am discussing what he did military I look at his battles in chronological order. I gave his first abortive attempt to raid a caravan and moved on to his first actually attack against one and the reasons behind both. You simply ignored these and introduced which was not a military campaign. Even with what you mentioned you only commented on 2 or 3 out of ten names of people he ordered executed. So you chose a whole new issue then did not even offer a complete response to it. It seems no mater how many people we point out he killed for no good reason Muslims will neglect them and look at the only the times in between these tyrannical acts. I could do the same with Hitler. I can ignore every concentration camp you name, dismiss all the gas chambers you list, or point out some tiny percentage of those he executed might have deserved it. It will never make Hitler a good man.

So are you going to address the battles I initially brought up long before post # 1238 or not. Your systematic avoidance of them only makes it appear worse.

1robin further added:



It is my option to respond to these points as long as these exist there.

Regards

Of course it is. However it is my option to suspend a conversation with anyone who will not address the points I bring up. I am not telling you what to do. I am trying to see if your ever going to respond to the original claims or not so I can determine whether I continue this discussion or not.

 

[England my lionheart]

If in a case that you were invaded and the new government asked for the tax,
will you refuse to pay the tax and then declare the war against the new government, regardless of what religion the new government follow.

If the tax labelled me as different I would fight them,if the tax was on the same basis as everyone else I'd pay.

 

[FearGod]

If the tax labelled me as different I would fight them,if the tax was on the same basis as everyone else I'd pay.

No one pay the same value of taxes even today.

 

[England my lionheart]

No one pay the same value of taxes even today.

Correct but the value is based on income not religion,thats the difference

 

[1robin]

No one pay the same value of taxes even today.

However the difference in taxes is not theological in western nations but based on income. The problem is Islam made those who would not buy into what they found no merit in pay more thereby oppressing them. Not only that but they were second class citizens in many ways.

 

[FearGod]

Correct but the value is based on income not religion,thats the difference

What if the taxes you pay as Jizya is much less than what you pay today ?
Will you disagree ?

What if both Zakat and Jizya are similar in value for everyone regardless of religion ?
What if you know that your money is spent in the right way to help the poor ?

Will you agree or disagree if you were sure of the above points ?

 

[1robin]

What if the taxes you pay as Jizya is much less than what you pay today ?
Will you disagree ?

What if both Zakat and Jizya are similar in value for everyone regardless of religion ?
What if you know that your money is spent in the right way to help the poor ?

Will you agree or disagree if you were sure of the above points ?

What if I was 100 feet tall?

Why don't we stick to reality instead of hypothetical fantasies. The Jizya was intended to be higher. I gave the entire Islamic doctrine concerning it previously in this thread. Not that the oppression ends with taxation alone. The tax was so high at times Muslims prohibited conversions because they were getting rich on the higher taxations.

 

[FearGod]

What if I was 100 feet tall?

Why don't we stick to reality instead of hypothetical fantasies. The Jizya was intended to be higher. I gave the entire Islamic doctrine concerning it previously in this thread. Not that the oppression ends with taxation alone. The tax was so high at times Muslims prohibited conversions because they were getting rich on the higher taxations.

Totally not true.

If that was the case then how to explain the golden age of the Jews during the Islamic empire in Spain.

The golden age of Jewish culture in Spain coincided with the Middle Ages in Europe, a period of Muslim rule throughout much of the Iberian Peninsula. During intermittent periods time, Jews were generally accepted in society and Jewish religious, cultural, and economic life blossomed.

Golden age of Jewish culture in Spain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[1robin]

Totally not true.

If that was the case then how to explain the golden age of the Jews during the Islamic empire in Spain.

The golden age of Jewish culture in Spain coincided with the Middle Ages in Europe, a period of Muslim rule throughout much of the Iberian Peninsula. During intermittent periods time, Jews were generally accepted in society and Jewish religious, cultural, and economic life blossomed.

Golden age of Jewish culture in Spain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do you panic and type Spain involuntarily for questions you can't answer or points you can't defend? This has nothing to do with the doctrine of Jizya. I have heard all roads lead to Rome, but never all questions have Spain as the answer.

 

[FearGod]

Do you panic and type Spain involuntarily for questions you can't answer or points you can't defend? This has nothing to do with the doctrine of Jizya. I have heard all roads lead to Rome, but never all questions have Spain as the answer.

Facts and reality is much stronger than my and your opinions.

Golden age of Jews is a hitorical fact which refutes your false idea about Jizya according to the Islam law.

If you can beat me then explain how the Jews reached such position during the Islamic empire.

 

[Shad]

Totally not true.

If that was the case then how to explain the golden age of the Jews during the Islamic empire in Spain.

The golden age of Jewish culture in Spain coincided with the Middle Ages in Europe, a period of Muslim rule throughout much of the Iberian Peninsula. During intermittent periods time, Jews were generally accepted in society and Jewish religious, cultural, and economic life blossomed.

Golden age of Jewish culture in Spain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Jewish Golden Age was their golden age not Islams. They reconstructed their language, their theology, their culture. You must also consider the violate environment caused by fanatical Muslims from North Africa which persecuted Jews. If Islam is responsible for this golden age it was also responsible for the end of it following invasion from North Africa which were sanctioned by the Caliph in Baghdad

 

[England my lionheart]

What if the taxes you pay as Jizya is much less than what you pay today ?
Will you disagree ?

What if both Zakat and Jizya are similar in value for everyone regardless of religion ?
What if you know that your money is spent in the right way to help the poor ?

Will you agree or disagree if you were sure of the above points ?

I'm sure there are millions of tax paying people who would use any loophole to pay less tax but Zakat and Jizya being of the same value is irrelevant because Jizyah is the cost of your subjugation.

 

[paarsurrey]

Was Islam spread by the sword?

No.

For example:

Spread of Islam in Western Sahara:

According to the CIA World Factbook, Muslims make up nearly 100% of the population of the Western Sahara.[1][2

Islam in Western Sahara - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Western Sahara.

Regards

 

[FearGod]

I'm sure there are millions of tax paying people who would use any loophole to pay less tax but Zakat and Jizya being of the same value is irrelevant because Jizyah is the cost of your subjugation.

Are you subjugated to pay the tax or you are willingly doing it ?
What if you refused to pay the tax in your homeland, will they give you a big smile ?

 

[FearGod]

The Jewish Golden Age was their golden age not Islams. They reconstructed their language, their theology, their culture. You must also consider the violate environment caused by fanatical Muslims from North Africa which persecuted Jews. If Islam is responsible for this golden age it was also responsible for the end of it following invasion from North Africa which were sanctioned by the Caliph in Baghdad

Did that answer the question ?

 

[Flankerl]

Its amazing how apologetic Muslims get the second you mention the Almohad conquest of Al-Andalus which basically destroyed the entire Jewish community of it.

Jews even fled to the Christian Kingdoms of Iberia, thats how bad it was.

 

[England my lionheart]

Are you subjugated to pay the tax or you are willingly doing it ?
What if you refused to pay the tax in your homeland, will they give you a big smile ?

You still don't get it do you,we who earn money pay tax,here its called income tax,you could worship a rubber glove if you wanted and it would still be income tax,not called something else or a higher rates because you won't play patsy and convert to any religion.

The old problematic hadith

Sahih Bukhari 4:53:392 While we were in the mosque, the Prophet came out and said, "Let us go to the Jews." We went out till we reached Bait-ul-Midras. He said to them, "If you embrace Islam, you will be safe. You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to expel you from this land. So, if anyone amongst you owns some property, he is permitted to sell it. Otherwise, you should know that the Earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle."

 

[FearGod]

Its amazing how apologetic Muslims get the second you mention the Almohad conquest of Al-Andalus which basically destroyed the entire Jewish community of it.

Jews even fled to the Christian Kingdoms of Iberia, thats how bad it was.

That by itself proves that it wasn't an Islamic issue since Jews have a period of prosperity during the Islamic rule.

Why things changed later on is another issue.