Was Islam spread by the sword?

[Shad]

Sorry that you see things that way,


For explanation on the Quraan you can refer to many scholars like Ibn kathir or Al Qurtubi for example.

So you admit you need secondary sources to understand the verse. Since you are referencing external authors this is using an external source ie a secondary source. You have comfirmed my view and agree with it

 

[icehorse]

If one has a PhD in something it doesn't means he follow it. If you are suggesting that Islam is all about violence and that Quraan teaches to kill people and kill muslims too than you are ignorant about Islam and haven.

If you think just because he has a PhD and they call him scholar that his actions define Islam and don't look into what Quraan has to say than you are shallow.

I'm looking at 1400 years of evidence, right up to 2014. Explain to me why Islam has always suffered from sectarian violence? This is not something new. This is not something that can be blamed on "the West". Sectarian violence has been a part of Islam from the very beginning.

My understanding is that in many cases, one sect of Islam views members of the other sect of Islam as apostates. And of course the Quran instructs Mulsims that the punishment for apostasy is death. Hence, we see 1400 years of sectarian violence.

Now I suppose you can say that all those Muslims who committed all those acts of sectarian violence for all those 1400 years, all in the name of Islam, didn't understand Islam, and you do. But you have a lot of evidence - 1400 years of it - that you are personally up against.

 

[Sabour]

So you admit you need secondary sources to understand the verse. Since you are referencing external authors this is using an external source ie a secondary source. You have comfirmed my view and agree with it

As I said it is not for people to understand and draw conclusions from the Quraan when it is not clear. Just like what you did with the verse you mentioned by asking questions about it.

The books I mentioned are for scholars from earliest centuries who had there reputation in Islam and the knowledge and search that qualify them to have those books.

So yes I agree there are verses in Quraan that you need explanations to know what they mean and know more stories about the verse or even the reasons why the verse is revealed.

However that is not in all the verses as there are some direct and explicit verses

 

[Shad]

I fail to see why you were required to make so many posts which resulted in agreeing with the point I put forward.

 

[Sabour]

I'm looking at 1400 years of evidence, right up to 2014. Explain to me why Islam has always suffered from sectarian violence? This is not something new. This is not something that can be blamed on "the West". Sectarian violence has been a part of Islam from the very beginning.

My understanding is that in many cases, one sect of Islam views members of the other sect of Islam as apostates. And of course the Quran instructs Mulsims that the punishment for apostasy is death. Hence, we see 1400 years of sectarian violence.

Now I suppose you can say that all those Muslims who committed all those acts of sectarian violence for all those 1400 years, all in the name of Islam, didn't understand Islam, and you do. But you have a lot of evidence - 1400 years of it - that you are personally up against.

Your undertanding is wrong especially is the second paragraph

 

[Sabour]

I fail to see why you were required to make so many posts which resulted in agreeing with the point I put forward.

There arw major differences between what you posted and what I replied.

 

[Shad]

You cited I need to read secondary sources to understand the verses. Thus this is in complete agreement with what I said.

 

[Sabour]

Lets not argue why we were arguing lol. Along the replies there was more than a point that was discussed. You seemed to suggest that we need to refer to to interpretation on every single verse and that there would be contradicting explanations.

 

[icehorse]

Quote:
Originally Posted by icehorse
I'm looking at 1400 years of evidence, right up to 2014. Explain to me why Islam has always suffered from sectarian violence? This is not something new. This is not something that can be blamed on "the West". Sectarian violence has been a part of Islam from the very beginning.

My understanding is that in many cases, one sect of Islam views members of the other sect of Islam as apostates. And of course the Quran instructs Mulsims that the punishment for apostasy is death. Hence, we see 1400 years of sectarian violence.

Now I suppose you can say that all those Muslims who committed all those acts of sectarian violence for all those 1400 years, all in the name of Islam, didn't understand Islam, and you do. But you have a lot of evidence - 1400 years of it - that you are personally up against.

One_answer said:

Your understanding is wrong especially is the second paragraph.

Ok, what's your understanding concerning 1400 years of sectarian violence?

 

[FearGod]

Quote:
Originally Posted by icehorse
I'm looking at 1400 years of evidence, right up to 2014. Explain to me why Islam has always suffered from sectarian violence? This is not something new. This is not something that can be blamed on "the West". Sectarian violence has been a part of Islam from the very beginning.

My understanding is that in many cases, one sect of Islam views members of the other sect of Islam as apostates. And of course the Quran instructs Mulsims that the punishment for apostasy is death. Hence, we see 1400 years of sectarian violence.

Now I suppose you can say that all those Muslims who committed all those acts of sectarian violence for all those 1400 years, all in the name of Islam, didn't understand Islam, and you do. But you have a lot of evidence - 1400 years of it - that you are personally up against.

One_answer said:



Ok, what's your understanding concerning 1400 years of sectarian violence?

How you compare the golden age of Islam with the dark age in Europe ?

 

[FearGod]

Who are the disbelievers? No context of who they are is provided No context again. Who are these people? Why are they fighting? Since the offense was Muhammads he should follow his own word in Mecca, sadly he did not and plays the victim again. Again has nothing to do with the quoted verse. Look up the word context as you have no idea what it means.

Very hard question indeed, who are the disbelievers ?
Let me try to guess...mmmm, i think they were the Americans who came to fight Muhammed's message of Islam.

The prophet was ordered to deliver the message to the world and any one who tried to stop it by force was faced by force.

The disbelievers (the American i guess) fought prophet Muhammed in Mecca,i ain't sure if in Mecca or LA, but as they fought him he was ordered to face them by force.

Stupid questions require stupid answers.

 

[outhouse]

It is being spread this very day by mass murder. Most muslim on muslim. You cant even take care of your own YARD or people.

The religion and its sectarianism is guilty for more deaths then imaginable.


And to me it is a crime for members of this religion to not own up to the REASON why it breeds extremist and hatred of those with different beliefs.

Many/most muslims are good, but the fact their required beliefs can enable terrorism and mass murder makes me sick.

My opinion, The fanaticism and fundamentalism needs to be stopped, and all of these people need to be brought into reality.

 

[paarsurrey]

Was Islam spread by the sword?

No.

For example:

Spread of Islam in Mayotte, Africa:

Islam is the faith of the majority of the residents of the island of Mayotte with 97% as Muslims and 3% Christians.[1] 85,000 of the total 90,000 inhabitants of the island are Comorians. The Comorians are a blend of settlers from many areas: Iranian traders, mainland Africans, Arabs and Malagasy. Comorian communities can also be found in other parts of the Comoros chain as well as in Madagascar.

Although young people wear Western style clothing, traditional clothing is still common among adults. While in town, a Comorian man will typically wear a white cotton garment and a knee-length shirt, sometimes with a white jacket and white skull cap. Out of town, a long cloth sarong (colorful skirt) is worn. Most women wear long, colorful cotton dresses with bright shawls as face coverings. Others prefer black robes that cover their heads.

Polygamy has been an acceptable practice among the Comorians. However, on March 29, 2009, 95% of Mayotte citizens voted to become the 101st department of France. Due to the vote becoming effective in March 2011, the island is required to bar all forms of polygamous unions and other forms of practices that "contradict with French culture", including child marriages.[2] At the present time, polygamous marriages are presumed to have been stopped being issued by the government.

Traditionally, the Comorians have been very resistant to any kind of religious change.[3] The practice of Islam in Mayotte has been described as tolerant.[4]

Islam in Mayotte - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Mayotte.

Regards

 

[1robin]

Facts and reality is much stronger than my and your opinions.

That is why I have been trying so hard to get you guys to respond to the facts. If fact it is not just you guys here. In no thread on any forum have a been able to by any means get any Muslim to deal with just Muhammad's first few battles. No matter how many details, how many Islamic sources, or how reliable the history is I use any other subject will be discussed but not the battles. The last two times I posted it one Muslim ignored them and mentioned Mecca, now you ignore them and mention Spain (for the 100th time). Those battles are not my opinion they are Islamic history.

Golden age of Jews is a hitorical fact which refutes your false idea about Jizya according to the Islam law.

See now this is an opinion. What golden age? According to who? Economically? Spiritually? Militarily?

Nothing about this is not opinion.

In my opinion the Golden age of historical Israel spiritually and economically speaking is David and Solomon's reigns and Islam did not even exist. Other than that in my opinion their next golden age would be the late 19th century when they made the less than 1% of Arabia out produce the other 99% wheel fighting and winning every war they had. Islam did exist in that period but plagued Israel and was of no help what so ever.

Now you can give your opinion if you want but don't ignore historical facts, then demand facts, then post opinions.

If you can beat me then explain how the Jews reached such position during the Islamic empire.

I am not trying to beat you. My task is just to get you to admit historical facts are facts.

 

[England my lionheart]

Bukhari is an author, he born 2 centuries after the death of the prophet.

All hadith were about hearing, nothing was recorded, such as saying i heard so and so, which i take with a grain of salt.

For an outsider looking at these hadith in the context of the time aren't that shocking,it does become a big problem when people who do not need salt see a precedent for killing Apostates Homosexuals adulterers and marrying children as well as keeping slaves with lots of war booty thrown in for good measure.

looking at these collections such as Bukhari Muslim Maliki (spl) and Dawud and seeing examples of killing Apostates etc because they are regarded as authentic by a very large number of Islams followers,you can indulge in apologetics but for someone looking at the history of Islam being told they aren't true when the cover says they are where else could one look for the truth,i know what you will say next.

 

[FearGod]

For an outsider looking at these hadith in the context of the time aren't that shocking,it does become a big problem when people who do not need salt see a precedent for killing Apostates Homosexuals adulterers and marrying children as well as keeping slaves with lots of war booty thrown in for good measure.

looking at these collections such as Bukhari Muslim Maliki (spl) and Dawud and seeing examples of killing Apostates etc because they are regarded as authentic by a very large number of Islams followers,you can indulge in apologetics but for someone looking at the history of Islam being told they aren't true when the cover says they are where else could one look for the truth,i know what you will say next.

Are you expecting me to say the truth is in the quran ?

 

[England my lionheart]

Are you expecting me to say the truth is in the quran ?

I would be surprised id it was something else,i was looking at different translations of this verse: Al-Imran 3:83,this is Picthall,the are some that say "willingly or with compulsion".

Seek they other than the religion of Allah, when unto Him submitteth whosoever is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly, and unto Him they will be returned.

 

[FearGod]

I would be surprised id it was something else,i was looking at different translations of this verse: Al-Imran 3:83,this is Picthall,the are some that say "willingly or with compulsion".

Seek they other than the religion of Allah, when unto Him submitteth whosoever is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly, and unto Him they will be returned.

You are confused with willingly and unwillingly and which is a fact, many things in life happening to us that we don't like it to happen but there is nothing that we can do other than submission.

For example you hate death,but death is a fact that you have to face it unwillingly, or even getting old ..etc

 

[England my lionheart]

You are confused with willingly and unwillingly and which is a fact, many things in life happening to us that we don't like it to happen but there is nothing that we can do other than submission.

For example you hate death,but death is a fact that you have to face it unwillingly, or even getting old ..etc

I don't see the confusion here,basically you will come to Islam like it or not,as you said "but there is nothing that we can do other than submission",there doesn't seem to be much choice.

 

[FearGod]

I don't see the confusion here,basically you will come to Islam like it or not,as you said "but there is nothing that we can do other than submission",there doesn't seem to be much choice.

The choice is to submit willingly rather than unwillingly, as the end whether we like it or not will be back to him.