Was Islam spread by the sword?

[England my lionheart]

The choice is to submit willingly rather than unwillingly, as the end whether we like it or not will be back to him.

According to people who believe that of course,however there are people who don't,this is like European feudalism of the same period as your prophet,submit to your feudal lord,kicking and screaming if you like but you will submit,thats my opinion of course.

 

[paarsurrey]

Was Islam spread by the sword?

No.

For example:

Spread of Islam in Réunion, Africa:

The predominant religion in Réunion is Roman Catholicism, with Hinduism, such as Murugan cults, Islam, Chinese folk religion and Buddhism also represented amongst others. In Réunion, all religions are freely practiced, without government persecution.[1] Because religious censuses are banned in France and this also applies in Réunion, all religion statistics are estimates. Religious Intelligence estimates Christians to be 84.9% of the population, Hindus 6.7% and Muslims 2.15%.[2]Most large towns have a mosque, allowing the Muslims communities to practice their religion.[3]

Religion in Réunion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Réunion (French: La Réunion, IPA: [la ʁeynjɔ̃] ( listen); previously Île Bourbon) is a French island with a population of 840,974 inhabitants (as of January 2013[1]) located in the Indian Ocean, east of Madagascar, about 200 kilometres (120 mi) southwest of Mauritius, the nearest island.

Administratively, Réunion is one of the overseas departments of France. Like the other overseas departments, Réunion is also one of the 27 regions of France (being an overseas region) and an integral part of the Republic with the same status as those situated on the European mainland.

Réunion is an outermost region of the European Union and, as an overseas department of France, is part of theEurozone.[3]

Language[edit]

French is the only official language of Réunion. Although not official, Réunion Creole is the native language of a large part of the population and is spoken alongside French. Creole is used informally whereas the official language of any administration, office as well as education is French.[31]

Due to the diverse population, other languages such as Mandarin, Hakka and Cantonese are also spoken by members of the Chinese community, but fewer people speak these languages as younger generations start to converse in French and Réunion Creole. The number of speakers of Indian languages (mostly Urdu, Gujarati and Tamil) is also dropping sharply. Arabic is taught in mosques and spoken by a small community of Muslims.

English is a compulsory second language as part of the French school curriculum, but as in mainland France, English fluency is rare. German and Spanish are offered as a third language. Tamil is also taught as optional language in some schools.[30]

People of South Indian and Gujarati origin make up the majority of the Réunionnais of Indian origin; Bihari and other origins form the remainder of the population.[30]The island's community of Muslims from North Western India, particularly Gujarat, and elsewhere is commonly referred to as Zarab.

Réunion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Réunion.

Regards

 

[icehorse]

How you compare the golden age of Islam with the dark age in Europe ?

Well you're changing the topic and not answering the question, but I'll still give you an answer.

I'm no fan of Christianity either. My understanding is that in the last 1400 years, BOTH Christianity AND Islam have murdered between 250 and 300 million people EACH - "in the name of their religion".

Both religions have horrible, bloody records.

THIS THREAD however, is about Islam. Earlier in this thread I summarized my understanding of 1400 years of Islamic, sectarian violence and one of the factors: apostasy.

I was told that my understanding was wrong, but no one has told me what's "correct".

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

The wars of apostasy in Islam
After Muhammad's death
Recoil from DIN Mohammad
But followers of Mohamed bekiadhabo Bakr managed to eliminate them in a bloody war and awesome
Either an apostasy in Islam
It is located in the verses but Muslims today try to make tviser different this brief response

 

[Stovepipe_Hat]

Sword? That's how it spread across North Africa & the Mideast, up to 732 AD when Charles Martel defeated a Muslim army at Poitiers, France.

Later, Islam entered Indonesia peacefully about 16th century.

The sword is also used in Nigeria (Boko Haram) and Mali right now.

But Islam doesn't distinguish a separate secular sphere, so they consider it just as legit as other violence perpetrated by secular nations, including the U.S. A growing number of Muslims want to get rid of the swords, and most Muslims live peacefully anyway, like anyone else. Christianity went through this stuff, until separation of religion from state happened.

 

[YmirGF]

Christianity went through this stuff, until separation of religion from state happened.

But by its very nature an Islamic state cannot do this.

 

[Majikthise]

Most religions have been spread by the sword at times.
Islam is simply unique in the fact that it continues to do so to this day.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

The separation of religion and State
In Christianity a legal, depending on the words of Jesus
Give Caesar money to Caesar and to God to God
In Islam no separation of State and religion
They believe that the Qur'an is the word of God
And that Islamic law is better than all the religions
And obey Allah and the Messenger, the first thing you

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

This is not true
The Jewish religion was published not by the sword and not a sword because it religion for Jews
Christianity will be penalized by the sword
The words of Christ says of taking the sword by the sword taken
And the Christian religion strongly tbsirih floor
Disciples of Christ and the apostles did not use a sword
Christian because it accepted the Empires given a new life
But Islam is only spread by the sword and to protect his religion by the sword
The flag of Saudi Arabia set off
Sword with certificates

 

[Majikthise]

I've danced plenty with Muslims. They can't keep the rhythm.

 

[outhouse]

They believe that the Qur'an is the word of God
And that Islamic law is better than all the religions
And obey Allah and the Messenger, the first thing you

Despite the plagiarism and lies the book states about history.

 

[Chev Chelios]

Totally not true.

If that was the case then how to explain the golden age of the Jews during the Islamic empire in Spain.

The golden age of Jewish culture in Spain coincided with the Middle Ages in Europe, a period of Muslim rule throughout much of the Iberian Peninsula. During intermittent periods time, Jews were generally accepted in society and Jewish religious, cultural, and economic life blossomed.

Golden age of Jewish culture in Spain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No. There was no golden age of Jews in Spain. The myth of the 'noble' tolerant Moslem and the peaceful spread of Islam is one of the most nauseating examples of historical revisionism I have ever come across!

In the case of Spain, this virtual fabrication has come about by 1 or 2 historical writings by Jews which have been misrepresented and their significance inflated to push a narrative of something else. These commentaries do not negate the overwhelming evidence which is quite damning with respect to what it meant to be a Jew under Islam in Spain or anywhere else in the caliphate for that matter. In Spain the Jews had to accept a subordinate status under Islamic rule - this was the only option they had other than convert or be exterminated. Does not sound like a golden age to me.

Please see the writings of Moses Maimonides from 1150 who fled Berber Spain and documented the horror of Moslem treatment of the Jews. Please see the massacre of an entire Jewish community in Grenada in 1066 or the plight of Jews in Cordoba 1010-1013. It 'MAY' be true that life under Islam was slightly better than life under Christianity at that time but this fact is irrelevant to the actual claim that Jews were afforded equal status to Moslems in Spain 1000 years ago - which is what is surely suggested by this 'Jewish Golden Age'?

This appropriation of Moslems who propagate the fallacy of a Jewish-Moslem interfaith Spanish utopia is so self serving and that they soft peddle the legal and cultural inferiority afforded the Jews under Moslem rule during this time is utterly disgraceful. I am becoming increasingly disturbed by the lack of compassion followers of the ‘religion of peace’ show by ignoring the persecution dished out in the name of their religion. How can they continually spout such inversions of reality?

The fact that, whilst there were periods where Jews, under the rule of Islam in Spain, were persecuted less severely in comparison to the persecution meted out to Jews by Christians, does not allow Moslems to use this contrast to serve as legitimate support to demonstrate Islamic tolerance to the Jews. This is just not true – Jews were persecuted under Islamic rule and have always been and any contradiction to this will be an exception to the rule and will also only pertain to a lesser degree of persecution anyway! I have never seen any evidence of complete cultural equality and religious parity given to Jews under the rule of Islam at any time – please provide explicit evidence. You can’t because such an idea is an impossibility and directly contradicts Islamic teachings in 2014 let alone the middle ages!

We also must remember that people who try and push this argument do so by comparing Christian treatment of Jews to that of Islam in Spain using purposefully isolated points in history. There is no doubt that prior and up to the middle ages Christianity had periods of reasonable tolerance towards Jews yet people who so assiduously defend Islam, will tease out Christianity at its worse and compare it to Islam at its best. It goes without saying that this is not a fair use of comparative science and by doing so you create a completely false and illegitimate paradigm.

For further evidence of this fallacy we can turn to the ‘pact of Umar’ which determines the place of Jews (and Christians) in society and which mandates the apartheid like existence of Dhimittude. We know that under Islamic rule in Spain this pact was evoked by the ruling (and successive) caliphs and that Jews were afforded this Dhimmi status – this fact alone is enough to completely obliterate your argument of an equal status for Jews by Moslems.

Under this pact, not only were additional taxes such as Jizya forced upon Jews lest they be converted to Islam or be executed – they also had strict limits imposed on them practicing their faith – no new places of worship could be built and old ones could not be repaired whilst they were exempt from publicly expression their faith, had to demonstrate subservience to the Moslem, were exempt from certain civil jobs (there may have been 1 or 2 exceptions to this).

Nonetheless, this dhimmitude allowed Jews to exist so that it gave them confidence by virtue of the fact that by simply keeping their heads down and being humble they could keep hostility to a minimum and in a perverse way have their safety guaranteed. I argue that abiding by discriminatory treatment to avoid being massacred and or force conversion does not constitute a golden age as you argue!

Yes, the destruction of the Jews by the Almohads was a deviation from this hierarchal social structure which previous Islamic rules had established – until then the Islamic system of keeping the Jews (and Christians) in a sub-ordinate status worked well. Sorry – but this fact that what came after was worse does not mean we can conveniently forget the centuries of lowered status of Jews in Spain which had preceded it. So why do Moslems do this??

I want explicit evidence of Jews being equal under Islam in Spain - this should be very easy since you are so convinced it is true.

 

[Chev Chelios]

A
Besides that Quraan must be taken as a whole and not as separate parts.

It is clear in other verses that anyone who kills a person is like he killed the whole of humanity.

No! I took this exact argument up with an Imam recently who, in order to show how ISIS contradict Islam he purposely misquoted his own holy book. To show Islam is truly the religion of peace he cited 5:32 of the Koran (which you paraphrased) which is apparently a teaching to Moslems that if they kill one person "it is as if they have all of killed humanity". This is utter deception for the paragraph is written in the past tense & is merely commentating on a teaching given to JEWS! This is what JEWS are told - it doesn’t apply to Moslems! If you continue reading it becomes clear what Moslems ARE commanded to do - that is, execute or chop off the hands & feet of mischief makers (non Moslems). So - this quote used to show Islam is peaceful actually serves to show its intolerance & barbarity.

Why are you misquoting your own book and ignoring the all important factor of 'context' which you are usually so eager to bring up Sir?

 

[outhouse]

Was Islam spread by the sword?

When did they ever put the sword down?

 

[FearGod]

No. There was no golden age of Jews in Spain. The myth of the 'noble' tolerant Moslem and the peaceful spread of Islam is one of the most nauseating examples of historical revisionism I have ever come across!

In the case of Spain, this virtual fabrication has come about by 1 or 2 historical writings by Jews which have been misrepresented and their significance inflated to push a narrative of something else. These commentaries do not negate the overwhelming evidence which is quite damning with respect to what it meant to be a Jew under Islam in Spain or anywhere else in the caliphate for that matter. In Spain the Jews had to accept a subordinate status under Islamic rule - this was the only option they had other than convert or be exterminated. Does not sound like a golden age to me.

Please see the writings of Moses Maimonides from 1150 who fled Berber Spain and documented the horror of Moslem treatment of the Jews. Please see the massacre of an entire Jewish community in Grenada in 1066 or the plight of Jews in Cordoba 1010-1013. It 'MAY' be true that life under Islam was slightly better than life under Christianity at that time but this fact is irrelevant to the actual claim that Jews were afforded equal status to Moslems in Spain 1000 years ago - which is what is surely suggested by this 'Jewish Golden Age'?

This appropriation of Moslems who propagate the fallacy of a Jewish-Moslem interfaith Spanish utopia is so self serving and that they soft peddled the legal and cultural inferiority afforded the Jews under Moslem rule during this time is utterly disgraceful. I am becoming increasingly disturbed by the lack of compassion followers of the ‘religion of peace’ show by ignoring the persecution dished out in the name of their religion. How can they continually peddle such inversions of reality?

The fact that, whilst there were periods where Jews, under the rule of Islam in Spain, were persecuted less severely in comparison to the persecution meted out to Jews by Christians, does not allow Moslems to use this contrast to serve as legitimate support to demonstrate Islamic tolerance to the Jews. This is just not true – Jews were persecuted under Islamic rule and have always been and any contradiction to this will be an exception to the rule and will also only pertain to a lesser degree of persecution anyway! I have never seen any evidence of complete cultural equality and religious parity given to Jews under the rule of Islam at any time – please provide explicit evidence. You can’t because such an idea is an impossibility and directly contradicts Islamic teachings in 2014 let alone the middle ages!

We also must remember that people who try and push this argument do so by comparing Christian treatment of Jews to that of Islam in Spain using purposefully isolated points in history. There is no doubt that prior and up to the middle ages Christianity had periods of reasonable tolerance towards Jews yet people like who so assiduously defend Islam, will tease out Christianity at its worse and compare it to Islam at its best. It goes without saying that this is not a fair use of comparative science and by doing so you create a completely false and illegitimate paradigm.

For further evidence of this fallacy we can turn to the ‘pact of Umar’ which determines the place of Jews (and Christians) in society and which mandates the apartheid like existence of Dhimittude. We know that under Islamic rule in Spain this pact was evoked by the ruling (and successive) caliphs and that Jews were afforded this Dhimmi status – this fact alone is enough to completely obliterate your argument of an equal status for Jews by Moslems.

Under this pact, not only were additional taxes such as Jizya forced upon Jews lest they be converted to Islam or be executed – they also had strict limits imposed on them practicing their faith – no new places of worship could be built and old ones could not be repaired whilst they were exempt from publicly expression their faith, had to demonstrate subservience to the Moslem, were exempt from certain civil jobs (there may have been 1 or 2 exceptions to this).

Nonetheless, this dhimmitude allowed Jews to exist so that it gave them confidence by virtue of the fact that by simply keeping their heads down and being humble they could keep hostility to a minimum and in a perverse way have their safety guaranteed. I argue that abiding by discriminatory treatment to avoid being massacred and or force conversion does not constitute a golden age as you argue!

Yes, the destruction of the Jews by the Almohads was a deviation from this hierarchal social structure which previous Islamic rules had established – until then the Islamic system of keeping the Jews (and Christians) in a sub-ordinate status worked well. Sorry – but this fact that what came after was worse does not mean we can conveniently forget the centuries of lowered status of Jews. Why do you do this? I want explicit evidence of Jews being equal under Islam in Spain - this should be very easy since you are so convinced it is true.

Why not hearing from a professional in the Jewish history .


[youtube]1OnArXdHQdc[/youtube]
The Golden Age of Spanish Jewry (Essential Lectures in Jewish History) Dr. Henry Abramson - YouTube

 

[paarsurrey]

Was Islam spread by the sword?

No.

For example:

Spread of Islam in Western Sahara, Africa:

The Western Sahara (US i/ˌwɛstərn səˈhærə/; UK /ˌwɛstən səˈhɑrə/; Arabic: الصحراء الغربية‎ Aṣ-Ṣaḥrā’ al-Gharbīyah; Spanish: Sahara Occidental; Berber: Taneẓroft Tutrimt) is a disputed territory in the Maghreb region of North Africa, bordered by Morocco to the north, Algeria to the extreme northeast, Mauritania to the east and south, and the Atlantic Ocean to the west. Its surface area amounts to 266,000 square kilometres (103,000 sq mi). It is one of the most sparsely populated territories in the world, mainly consisting of desert flatlands. The population is estimated at just over 500,000,[8] of whom nearly 40% live in El Aaiún (also spelled Laâyoune), the largest city in Western Sahara.

History
Early history

The arrival of Islam in the 8th century played a major role in the development of the Maghreb region. Trade developed further, and the territory may have been one of the routes for caravans, especially between Marrakesh and Tombouctou in Mali.

In the 11th century, the Maqil Arabian tribes (fewer than 200 individuals) settled in Morocco (mainly in the Draa valley, between the Melwiya river, Tafilalet and Taourirt).[19] Towards the end of the Almohads' rule, the Beni Hassan tribe (a sub-tribe of the Maqil) were called by the local ruler of the Sous to quell a rebellion, they settled in the Sous Ksours and controlled such cities as Taroudant.[19]

During the Merinid rule, the Beni Hassan rebelled but were defeated by the Sultan and escaped beyond the Saguia el-Hamra dry river.[19][20] The Beni Hassan then were at constant war with the Lamtuna nomadic Berbers of the Sahara. Over roughly five centuries, through a complex process of acculturation and mixing seen elsewhere in the Maghreb and North Africa, some of the indigenous Berber tribes mixed with the Maqil Arabian tribes and formed a culture unique to Morocco and Mauritania.[citation needed]

Culture

Like other Saharan Bedouin and Hassaniya groups, the Sahrawis are mostly Muslims of the Sunni branch and the Maliki fiqh. Local religious custom (Urf) is, like other Saharan groups, heavily influenced by pre-Islamic Berber and African practices, and differs substantially from urban practices. For example, Sahrawi Islam has traditionally functioned without mosques in the normal sense of the word, in an adaptation to nomadic life.[citation needed]
Western Sahara - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Western Sahara.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Sword? That's how it spread across North Africa & the Mideast, up to 732 AD when Charles Martel defeated a Muslim army at Poitiers, France.

Later, Islam entered Indonesia peacefully about 16th century.

The sword is also used in Nigeria (Boko Haram) and Mali right now.

But Islam doesn't distinguish a separate secular sphere, so they consider it just as legit as other violence perpetrated by secular nations, including the U.S. A growing number of Muslims want to get rid of the swords, and most Muslims live peacefully anyway, like anyone else. Christianity went through this stuff, until separation of religion from state happened.

I don't agree with you.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

But by its very nature an Islamic state cannot do this.

I don't agree with you.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

The separation of religion and State
In Christianity a legal, depending on the words of Jesus
Give Caesar money to Caesar and to God to God
In Islam no separation of State and religion
They believe that the Qur'an is the word of God
And that Islamic law is better than all the religions
And obey Allah and the Messenger, the first thing you

I don't agree with you.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Despite the plagiarism and lies the book states about history.

For instance

Regards