Was Islam spread by the sword?

[Shad]

The fact is that only Quran provides the context; Hadith cannot correctly provide the context.
It is true that Hadith is better than Torah and the NT-Bible are any other religious scriptures of the world.
Quran provides reason/wisdom and the context not just claims. It is for this all the above are finally checked with Quran.

Regards

A number of the violent verses are context free. These require secondary sources to isolate the verses from generalizations to specifics.

 

[Shad]

I don't think Sharia law needs the hadith since God said that everything is included in the quran.

Sharia law is flexible, for example Umar Ibn Khattab suspended the sharia law of cutting the hand of the thief in the days of famine.

Sharia laws has always used the Quran and Hadiths. What you think is irelevent to the fact that Hadiths have been used as a source.

 

[paarsurrey]

Sharia laws has always used the Quran and Hadiths. What you think is irelevent to the fact that Hadiths have been used as a source.

Sharia Law is based on Quran and then Sunnah; Hadith is only accepted if it is not against Quran, so for all practical purposes Quran provides the basis of Sharia at a point of time/place.

Regards

 

[icehorse]

The reason for that is that most of people including muslims read Hadiths without knowing the context of the hadith or the reasons behind it at all.

For example, a person killing another person is considered a crime unless you know that the person was about to be killed and had no other choice. in that case it is self defense.

Occam's razor people, Occam's razor! (The simplest explanation is often the best.)

ISIS is implementing an extremely simple, intuitive and defensible version of Islam. Traditional Islamic scholars will disagree, but notice that to do so, scholars have to start doing this sort of complex arm-waving. See if this sounds familiar:

"Well you can't interpret just this verse out of context, you must consider these verses over here and those verses over there, and also don't forget when in Muhammad's career this verse should be applied, oh wait, and ALSO we must recall what the culture was like 1400 years age, for that period, this was quite a moral breakthrough..."

 

[paarsurrey]

A number of the violent verses are context free. These require secondary sources to isolate the verses from generalizations to specifics.

There is not a single verse without the context.
Point a single verse (SINGLE) and the context would be in the Quran.
Regards

 

[Sabour]

Occam's razor people, Occam's razor! (The simplest explanation is often the best.)

ISIS is implementing an extremely simple, intuitive and defensible version of Islam. Traditional Islamic scholars will disagree, but notice that to do so, scholars have to start doing this sort of complex arm-waving. See if this sounds familiar:

"Well you can't interpret just this verse out of context, you must consider these verses over here and those verses over there, and also don't forget when in Muhammad's career this verse should be applied, oh wait, and ALSO we must recall what the culture was like 1400 years age, for that period, this was quite a moral breakthrough..."

Islam is picked as a whole and parts can't be taken out because it is a complete system of life.
Don't try to mix clear things with what I said. It is crystal clear that what ISIS is doing is not Islamic.

 

[Shad]

Quran 002.191 AL-BAQARA

 

[paarsurrey]

Was Islam spread by the sword?

No.

For example:

Spread of Islam in Melilla, Africa:

Melilla (Spanish pronunciation: [meˈliʎa]; Berber: Mřič (Mritch); Arabic: مليلية‎, Maliliyyah) is a Spanish-administered city and an exclave located on the north coast of Africa, sharing a border with Morocco with an area of 12.3 square kilometres (4.7 sq mi). Melilla, along with Ceuta, is one of two permanently inhabited Spanish-administered cities in mainland Africa. It was part of Málaga province until 14 March 1995, when the city's Statute of Autonomy was passed.

Melilla, like Ceuta, was a free port before Spain joined the European Union. As of 2011, it had a population of 78,476 made up of ethnic Spaniards, ethnic Riffian Berbers, and a small number of ethnic Spanish Jews. Both Spanish andRiffian-Berber are the two most widely spoken languages, with Spanish as the only official language.

Melilla is claimed by Morocco and is considered by the Moroccan state to be "occupied territory".

City culture and society

The workshops inspired by the Catalan architect, Enrique Nieto, continued in the modernist style, even after Modernisme went out of fashion elsewhere. Accordingly, Melilla has the second most important concentration of Modernist works in Spain afterBarcelona. Nieto was in charge of designing the main Synagogue, the Central Mosque and various Catholic Churches.[14]

Melilla has been praised as an example of multiculturalism, being a small city in which one can find up to three major religions represented. However, the Christian majority of the past, constituting around 65% of the population at one point, has been shrinking, while the number of Muslims has steadily increased to its present 45% of the population due to immigration from Muslim countries.[citation needed]

Jews, who had lived in Melilla for centuries, have been leaving the city in recent years (from 20% of the population before World War II to less than 5% today). Most of the Jewish population has left to Israel and Venezuela. There is a small, autonomous, and commercially important Hindu community present in Melilla, as well.

Melilla - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Melilla.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Quran 002.191 AL-BAQARA

The Holy Quran : Chapter 2: Al-Baqarah

[2:187] And when My servants ask thee about Me, say: ‘I am near. I answer the prayer of the supplicant when he prays to Me. So they should hearken to Me and believe in Me, that they may follow the right way.’
[2:188] It is made lawful for you to go in unto your wives on the night of the fast. They are a garment for you, and you are a garment for them. Allah knows that you have been acting unjustly to yourselves, wherefore He has turned to you with mercy and afforded you relief. So you may now go in unto them and seek what Allah has ordained for you; and eat and drink until the white thread becomes distinct to you from the black thread of the dawn. Then complete the fast till nightfall and do not go in unto them while you remain in the mosques for devotion. These are the limits fixed by Allah, so approach them not. Thus does Allah make His commandments clear to men that they may become secure against evil.
[2:189] And do not devour your wealth among yourselves through falsehood, and offer it notas bribe to the authorities that you may knowingly devour a part of the wealth of otherpeople with injustice.
[2:190] They ask thee about the new moons. Say, ‘They are means for measuring time forthe general good of mankind and for the Pilgrimage.’ And it is not righteousness that you come into houses by the backs thereof; but truly righteous is he who fears God. And you should come into houses by the doors thereof; and fear Allah that you may prosper.
[2:191] And fight in the cause of Allah against those who fight against you, but do not transgress. Surely, Allah loves not the transgressors.
[2:192] And kill them wherever you meet them and drive them out from where they have driven you out; for persecution is worse than killing. And fight them not in, and near, the Sacred Mosque until they fight you therein. But if they fight you, then fight them: such is the requital for the disbelievers.
[2:193] But if they desist, then surely Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.
[2:194] And fight them until there is no persecution, and religion is freely professed for Allah. But if they desist, then remember that no hostility is allowed except against the aggressors.
[2:195] The violation of a Sacred Month should be retaliated in the Sacred Month; and forall sacred things there is the law of retaliation. So, whoso transgresses against you, punish him for his transgression to the extent to which he has transgressed against you. And fear Allah and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.
[2:196] And spend for the cause of Allah, and cast not yourselves into ruin with your own hands, and do good; surely, Allah loves those who do good.
[2:197] And complete the Hajj and the ‘Umrah for the sake of Allah: but if you are kept back, then make whatever offering is easily available; and do not shave your heads until the offering reaches its destination. And whoever among you is sick or has an ailment of the head, should make an expiation either by fasting or almsgiving or a sacrifice. But when you are safe, then he, who would avail himself of the ‘Umrah together with the Hajj, should make whatever offering is easily obtainable. But such of you as cannot find an offeringshould fast three days during the Pilgrimage, and seven when you return home; these are ten complete. This is for him whose family does not reside near the Sacred Mosque. And fear Allah and know that Allah is severe in punishing.

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

I have provided the verse quoted by you and the verses in the context.
Please establish your stance from it.

Regards

 

[Sabour]

Thank you Shad for mentioning an example

Look what the verse 2:191 made to say when taken out of context

2:191 And kill them wherever you overtake ....


Now let us look at the context

2:190 Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.

2:191 And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.

2:192 And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

2:193 Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors.

So first, the ones you are killing are those who are trying to kill you and even though they started, you must not transgress (verse 190)

Those who you will be fighting them are people who expelled you from your homes but don't fight them at Masjed Al Haram unless they fight you there (verse 191)

Even though they started, if they stopped you must stop too. A concept called forgiveness maybe? (verse 192)

From these verses what do haters spread? 3 words only (in Arabic) that is translated to "kill them wherever you overtake them".

 

[Shad]

The Holy Quran : Chapter 2: Al-Baqarah

[2:187] And when My servants ask thee about Me, say: ‘I am near. I answer the prayer of the supplicant when he prays to Me. So they should hearken to Me and believe in Me, that they may follow the right way.’
[2:188] It is made lawful for you to go in unto your wives on the night of the fast. They are a garment for you, and you are a garment for them. Allah knows that you have been acting unjustly to yourselves, wherefore He has turned to you with mercy and afforded you relief. So you may now go in unto them and seek what Allah has ordained for you; and eat and drink until the white thread becomes distinct to you from the black thread of the dawn. Then complete the fast till nightfall and do not go in unto them while you remain in the mosques for devotion. These are the limits fixed by Allah, so approach them not. Thus does Allah make His commandments clear to men that they may become secure against evil.
[2:189] And do not devour your wealth among yourselves through falsehood, and offer it notas bribe to the authorities that you may knowingly devour a part of the wealth of otherpeople with injustice. [2:190] They ask thee about the new moons. Say, ‘They are means for measuring time forthe general good of mankind and for the Pilgrimage.’ And it is not righteousness that you come into houses by the backs thereof; but truly righteous is he who fears God. And you should come into houses by the doors thereof; and fear Allah that you may prosper. [2:191] And fight in the cause of Allah against those who fight against you, but do not transgress. Surely, Allah loves not the transgressors.

These have nothing to do with the verse I quoted but are merely in a jumbled order. These are verses within a different context thus your reply is a non-sequitur.

[2:192] And kill them wherever you meet them and drive them out from where they have driven you out; for persecution is worse than killing. And fight them not in, and near, the Sacred Mosque until they fight you therein. But if they fight you, then fight them: such is the requital for the disbelievers.

Who are the disbelievers? No context of who they are is provided

[2:193] But if they desist, then surely Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful. [2:194] And fight them until there is no persecution, and religion is freely professed for Allah. But if they desist, then remember that no hostility is allowed except against the aggressors.

No context again. Who are these people? Why are they fighting? Since the offense was Muhammads he should follow his own word in Mecca, sadly he did not and plays the victim again.

[2:195] The violation of a Sacred Month should be retaliated in the Sacred Month; and forall sacred things there is the law of retaliation. So, whoso transgresses against you, punish him for his transgression to the extent to which he has transgressed against you. And fear Allah and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.
[2:196] And spend for the cause of Allah, and cast not yourselves into ruin with your own hands, and do good; surely, Allah loves those who do good.
[2:197] And complete the Hajj and the ‘Umrah for the sake of Allah: but if you are kept back, then make whatever offering is easily available; and do not shave your heads until the offering reaches its destination. And whoever among you is sick or has an ailment of the head, should make an expiation either by fasting or almsgiving or a sacrifice. But when you are safe, then he, who would avail himself of the ‘Umrah together with the Hajj, should make whatever offering is easily obtainable. But such of you as cannot find an offeringshould fast three days during the Pilgrimage, and seven when you return home; these are ten complete. This is for him whose family does not reside near the Sacred Mosque. And fear Allah and know that Allah is severe in punishing.

Again has nothing to do with the quoted verse. Look up the word context as you have no idea what it means.

 

[Shad]

Who expelled who? Why were they expelled. Still no context is provided. If I am evicted legally can I fight my landlord? Keep in mind I am fully aware how people take these verses at face value, it is due to lack of context which secondary sources provide.

 

[Sabour]

Who expelled who? Why were they expelled. Still no context is provided. If I am evicted legally can I fight my landlord? Keep in mind I am fully aware how people take these verses at face value, it is due to lack of context which secondary sources provide.

A muslim is not free to think and make conclusions out of his own when he reads something that he doesn't understand. He must refer to the explanations to understand.

These verses where for people who were expelled from their houses at the prophet's time because of oppression.

Besides that Quraan must be taken as a whole and not as separate parts.

It is clear in other verses that anyone who kills a person is like he killed the whole of humanity.

 

[icehorse]

Islam is picked as a whole and parts can't be taken out because it is a complete system of life.
Don't try to mix clear things with what I said. It is crystal clear that what ISIS is doing is not Islamic.

My understanding is that the leader of ISIS has a PhD. in Islamic studies. Do you? This is not meant to be rude. But try to see this from my perspective. I've read the Quran - the entire Quran. I've heard what ISIS says, and sees how they act. And their leader is an Islamic scholar.

So I should take your word over my own reading and the actions of this large group?

 

[Sabour]

My understanding is that the leader of ISIS has a PhD. in Islamic studies. Do you? This is not meant to be rude. But try to see this from my perspective. I've read the Quran - the entire Quran. I've heard what ISIS says, and sees how they act. And their leader is an Islamic scholar.

So I should take your word over my own reading and the actions of this large group?

If one has a PhD in something it doesn't means he follow it. If you are suggesting that Islam is all about violence and that Quraan teaches to kill people and kill muslims too than you are ignorant about Islam and haven.

If you think just because he has a PhD and they call him scholar that his actions define Islam and don't look into what Quraan has to say than you are shallow.

 

[Shad]

A muslim is not free to think and make conclusions out of his own when he reads something that he doesn't understand. He must refer to the explanations to understand.

These verses where for people who were expelled from their houses at the prophet's time because of oppression.

Besides that Quraan must be taken as a whole and not as separate parts.

It is clear in other verses that anyone who kills a person is like he killed the whole of humanity.

So what references do these explaination use? Who are the oppressed? Is it the Meccans who were abused by Muhammand's interolerance? Was it the Jewish tribe expelled by Muhammand?

 

[Shad]

If one has a PhD in something it doesn't means he follow it. If you are suggesting that Islam is all about violence and that Quraan teaches to kill people and kill muslims too than you are ignorant about Islam and haven.

If you think just because he has a PhD and they call him scholar that his actions define Islam and don't look into what Quraan has to say than you are shallow.

He uses Saudi wahabism rhetoric from centuries ago. This is why people think he is an authority, because he cites others which are seen as authorities within this school of thought.

 

[Sabour]

So what references do these explaination use? Who are the oppressed? Is it the Meccans who were abused by Muhammand's interolerance? Was it the Jewish tribe expelled by Muhammand?

The first claim is not true and the second one you are referring to with no context.

I thought you would be asking about the verses you dropped the numbers of or you ask some other questions. But since you were proven wrong you decided to through other things about Islam.

Clearly, being proven wrong means nothing to you.

Sorry to bother with explaining.

 

[Shad]

The first claim is not true and the second one you are referring to with no context.

I thought you would be asking about the verses you dropped the numbers of or you ask some other questions. But since you were proven wrong you decided to through other things about Islam.

Clearly, being proven wrong means nothing to you.

Sorry to bother with explaining.

First claim is fact as the context provide in preceding verses was of a different context thus a non-sequitur The second claim follows from the first due to lack of context. In what context does oppressed apply? Who decides who is oppressed and if it is valid. People can play the victim and see themselves as oppressed. Refusal to allow religious laws in secular nation can be seens as oppression. People deported can seen themselves as oppressed and as exiles.

 

[Sabour]

Sorry that you see things that way,


For explanation on the Quraan you can refer to many scholars like Ibn kathir or Al Qurtubi for example.