Was Jesus a Mystic?

[Student of X]

Those are the parts I'm referring to as "sloppy." His ability to be self-reflective was often limited by the size of his ego.

My impression is that he frequently oscillated between unitive states and 'dark night of the soul' states.

 

[no-body]

Emphatically yes but as a mystic I would admit to being biased on the subject.

Why else would Jesus speak in parables and metaphors? Any non-mystical meanings are due to misinterpretation or the obvious tampering of the gospels from people who had axes to grind.

 

[doppelganger]

My impression is that he frequently oscillated between unitive states and 'dark night of the soul' states.

I agree. It seems he was writing several of those letters not long after his initial transformative vision, and had not developed an ability to perceive well enough his own fears, anxieties and inherited values, so a lot of that unwittingly was put into the writings that we have from him.

 

[doppelganger]

My impression is that he frequently oscillated between unitive states and 'dark night of the soul' states.

BTW, for years I identified my religious category here as "Any/none".

 

[Student of X]

They do though. They aren't as familiar to us is all. The Sufi writings are a main source of this sort of mystic avenue for Muslims, and useful to you and I as well.

I agree that Sufism and Divine inspiration can lead a Muslim to enlightenment. But I wouldn't say that a Muslim who takes that avenue learns to surf the myths and symbols of other cultures.

Ever read "Conference of the Birds"?

No but I added it to my mental must-read list. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

 

[doppelganger]

I agree that Sufism and Divine inspiration can lead a Muslim to enlightenment. But I wouldn't say that a Muslim who takes that avenue learns to surf the myths and symbols of other cultures.

I agree. It's part of the mystic tradition of their own culture. If they learn self-exploration through, say, Hinduism or Christianity, they could then come back and find plenty of support in a mystical tradition within Islam that has been there from the beginning. Just as you and I, having been raised in the Christian tradition, looked to other culture's myths, esoteric philosophy, and non-traditional spiritual practice to develop a method and then came back to Christianity with a new way of seeing it and breathing life back into it. And when we did, we find a long tradition that correlates to Sufism - Meister Eckhart, St. John of the Cross, early "Gnostic" ways of interpreting Christian mythology, and a new way to understand what great philosophers were saying about what is being called "theology" that makes it more immediate and meaningful.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Student of X,

Thank you for your response reagrds to Mysticism in Christianity however it fails to prove how it is at the top of the list.
Mysticism is there in every path/way/religion and wiki has laid it out:
Mysticism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The question of top or bottom, is only a mental construct inasmuch as mysticism is concered as it finally results in evolution of being!

Love & rgds

 

[Student of X]

Friend Student of X,

Thank you for your response regards to Mysticism in Christianity however it fails to prove how it is at the top of the list.
Mysticism is there in every path/way/religion and wiki has laid it out:
Mysticism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The question of top or bottom, is only a mental construct inasmuch as mysticism is concerned as it finally results in evolution of being!

Love & rgds

Certainly mysticism is there in every path, and Divine Wisdom is there too. But not every culture makes it easy for a mystic to learn to surf the myths and symbols of other cultures and then come back. I tentatively submit that Christian nations make it easiest for its mystics. Scholarly resources and religious freedoms make a difference. A mystic who learns to surf the mysticism of other cultures has an advantage that other mystics from other cultures might not have. That puts Christian mysticism at the top of the list, imo. But I am quite open to counter-arguments.

 

[zenzero]

Friend SoX,

I tentatively submit that Christian nations make it easiest for its mystics

According to wiki: State religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
There are no christian nations besides except for few muslim and buddhist and a lone hindu nation rest do not have any state religion, they are secular.
Ramakrishna Paramhansa [India] himself practised seven paths/religions to declare that all paths lead to the same state. Till date none has surfed mysticism of other cultures as him.

Love & rgds

 

[Student of X]

Friend SoX,


According to wiki: State religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
There are no christian nations besides except for few muslim and buddhist and a lone hindu nation rest do not have any state religion, they are secular.
Ramakrishna Paramhansa [India] himself practised seven paths/religions to declare that all paths lead to the same state. Till date none has surfed mysticism of other cultures as him.

Love & rgds

I'm not talking about official state religions.

I live in America and here I have the opportunity, the scholarship, and the freedom to learn how to 'surf' the myths and symbols of other cultures. Does a Muslim in Saudi Arabia or Iran have the same opportunities? I doubt it.

All mystical traditions being equal, the superior one will be the one that produces mystics who know how to surf the traditions of other cultures. That way, bridges between cultures can be built.

The inferior mystical tradition will be the one that produces a culture which makes it hard for a mystic to explore the myths of other cultures. In my opinion.

 

[zenzero]

Friend SoX,

In such a scenario it is the countries with dharmic cultures which has an upper hand.
According to history Dharmic cultures came before Abrahamic [islam, christianity etc]

Love & rgds

 

[maxfreakout]

He certainly had a number of unambiguously 'mystical' experiences, which makes him a mystic according to some definitions

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

I'm not talking about official state religions.

I live in America and here I have the opportunity, the scholarship, and the freedom to learn how to 'surf' the myths and symbols of other cultures. Does a Muslim in Saudi Arabia or Iran have the same opportunities? I doubt it.

All mystical traditions being equal, the superior one will be the one that produces mystics who know how to surf the traditions of other cultures. That way, bridges between cultures can be built.

The inferior mystical tradition will be the one that produces a culture which makes it hard for a mystic to explore the myths of other cultures. In my opinion.

Why would cultural restrictions on studying different cultures other than one's own make one particular mystical branch less superior than another? I wasn't aware that there was even such a race in mysticism. Unlike exoteric religion, mysticism is a shared component of spirituality that crosses borders and tears down prejudices. The mystical experiences of one particular religion are no more or less superior than another, regardless of amount or degree of study, because the teachings and experiences are the same. The teachings of the Perennial philosophers such as Rene Guenon and Frithjof Schuon are important in this area of study. Mysticism must not become so dogmatic.

 

[Valjean]

He certainly had a number of unambiguously 'mystical' experiences, which makes him a mystic according to some definitions

Can you give some examples, Max?
Thanx

Of the top of my head, recalling His words in the New Testament, I'd have to say He didn't talk like a mystic.

 

[Student of X]

Why would cultural restrictions on studying different cultures other than one's own make one particular mystical branch less superior than another?

Because knowledge is power.

I wasn't aware that there was even such a race in mysticism.

There isn't.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Because knowledge is power.

That's true, but one mystical tradition is just as valid and powerful as another, even without knowledge of any other traditions. As a matter of fact, too much knowledge can damper mystical practice and experience.

 

[Valjean]

The mystical experience is a universal neurological syndrome; a Perennial Philosophy, per Huxley. Pops up in all cultures.
"Knowledge," as usually understood, doesn't seem to be a factor.

 

[Student of X]

That's true, but one mystical tradition is just as valid and powerful as another, even without knowledge of any other traditions.

Valid, yes. I'm very sorry if I've somehow given the impression that your mystical tradition isn't as valid as mine. That is not my intent, and I hope no one has taken offense at any of my comments.

But mystics from cultures that encourage, allow, and support the exploration of foreign mystical traditions are going to be more advanced IN SOME WAYS than mystics from cultures that prohibit such exploration. If they take advantage of their opportunities and resources.

By the same token, movie-goers who have access to the movies of other cultures probably make better movie critics. That doesn't mean that one culture tells better stories than the others.

That is MY opinion. I totally understand if your opinion is different.

As a matter of fact, too much knowledge can damper mystical practice and experience.

If you say so.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Valid, yes. I'm very sorry if I've somehow given the impression that your mystical tradition isn't as valid as mine. That is not my intent, and I hope no one has taken offense at any of my comments.

But mystics from cultures that encourage, allow, and support the exploration of foreign mystical traditions are going to be superior IN SOME WAYS to mystics that are from cultures that prohibit such exploration.

That is MY opinion. I totally understand if your opinion is different.

If you say so.

Not at all. No offense taken.

 

[maxfreakout]

Can you give some examples, Max?
Thanx

The transfiguration, and also his death and resurrection could be interpreted as mystical experiences (in the sense of 'encounters with divine reality'), the latter makes more sense if it is interpreted as an allegory of a mystical experience rather than a literal experience of bodily death, the theme of death and rebirth/resurrection/transcendence is common among mystics

Also Mary's revelation/impregnation from Gabriel (although this is not strictly Jesus' experience)