Was Jesus born on Christmas?

[peacecrusader888]

Did you know that Jesus was born on 05-23? The date was revealed to us (plural) by the spirit of Ama. I have proven that this is true and correct in my study from 2004 to 2006, the results are on Revelation and Proofs: Jesus Christ was born on May 23, 33 B.C. for your perusal. Did you know that He was 32 solar years old when He was crucified and died?

 

[Norman]

So if Jesus was born in late December.....ouch! I mean...would be so traumatic if not life threatening for a child I would think. I mean the warmest I'd think it would have been at such in the middle of the night in late December would have been 30 degrees.

Im assuming Israel is warmer than Minnesota where I'm from but still cold in late December.

Norman: Hi SaintMattew, To my knowledge the Bible is silent on this topic. However, my Leader's of my Church have speculated
that Jesus was born in April, died in April and was resurrected in April. Have you found anywhere in the Bible to come up with an
approximate guess?

 

[Norman]

Did you know that Jesus was born on 05-23? The date was revealed to us (plural) by the spirit of Ama. I have proven that this is true and correct in my study from 2004 to 2006, the results are on Revelation and Proofs: Jesus Christ was born on May 23, 33 B.C. for your perusal. Did you know that He was 32 solar years old when He was crucified and died?

Norman: Hi peacecrusader888, That is interesting, I would steer more also to May or even April.

 

[peacecrusader888]

Norman: Hi peacecrusader888, That is interesting, I would steer more also to May or even April.

The spirit of Ama said that Jesus was born on 05-23. Using Pregnancy Calculator - Baby due date & conception date | PregnancyCalculator.co.nz and entering her last menstrual period (LMP) as 16/08/2014, we calculate the estimated due date (EDD) as 23/05/ 2015. But 08-16 in 34 BC was not a sabbath day, a Saturday. It says on page 16 of Pasiong Mahal (a book taken from the Holy Bible and which Ama recommends that we use aside from the King James Version) that Mary was in the oratory (World Book Dictionary defines it as “a small chapel; room set apart for prayer”) when the messenger archangel Gabriel came. She was praying to God. That may mean that it was sabbath. So the date when Gabriel came was 34 BC 08-19 or 3727 Av 27 (Calendar Converter or Midrash BEN ISH HAI Hebrew Calendar Converter ).

The archangel’s first greeting was troubling and she was not able to respond and thought about it (Luke 1:28-29). The archangel said not to fear (Luke 1:30). When she heard the second greeting, she responded immediately (Luke 1:23-38; Pasiong Mahal, page 17).

 

[peacecrusader888]

Part 2 (Birth of Jesus – visit to Elisabeth)

After a few days (Pasiong Mahal, page 18), Mary thought of visiting her first cousin Elisabeth, who was six months pregnant, in the hill country of Judah (Luke 1:39). Joseph and Mary stayed at Nazareth for the high day sabbath of 3727 Elul 1 (Wednesday) or 34 BC August 23. After the high day sabbath, they left Nazareth the following day for Judah. After walking for two days, they stayed in place because it was the weekly Saturday sabbath. After the Saturday sabbath, they continued their walk and reached Jerusalem. The next day, Monday, they continued their walk, passed by Bethlehem, about 10km south of Jerusalem, and reached the home of the elderly Zechariah and Elisabeth, parents of John the Baptist, in Ein Karem, a part of Hebron. Ein means spring and karem means vineyard. Hebron is about 30km south of Jerusalem. The place is mentioned in the Jerusalem Calendar (dated before AD 638 ) as the place of a festival on August 28 in memory of Elisabeth meeting her cousin Mary.

Here is the schedule of activities:
Saturday - 34 BC August 19 – 3727 Av 27 – weekly sabbath, visit of archangel Gabriel
Sunday – 34 BC August 20 – 3727 Av 28
Monday – 34 BC August 21 – 3727 Av 29
Tuesday – 34 BC August 22 – 3727 Av 30
Wednesday – 34 BC August 23 – 3727 Elul 1 – New Moon Festival, high day sabbath
Thursday – 34 BC August 24 – 3727 Elul 2 – left Nazareth for Judah
Friday – 34 BC August 25 – 3727 Elul 3
Saturday – 34 BC August 26 – 3727 Elul 4 – weekly sabbath, stayed at place
Sunday – 34 BC August 27 – 3727 Elul 5 – continued walk, reached Jerusalem
Monday – 34 BC August 28 – 3727 Elul 6 – continued walk, reached destination

 

[Norman]

Part 2 (Birth of Jesus – visit to Elisabeth)

After a few days (Pasiong Mahal, page 18), Mary thought of visiting her first cousin Elisabeth, who was six months pregnant, in the hill country of Judah (Luke 1:39). Joseph and Mary stayed at Nazareth for the high day sabbath of 3727 Elul 1 (Wednesday) or 34 BC August 23. After the high day sabbath, they left Nazareth the following day for Judah. After walking for two days, they stayed in place because it was the weekly Saturday sabbath. After the Saturday sabbath, they continued their walk and reached Jerusalem. The next day, Monday, they continued their walk, passed by Bethlehem, about 10km south of Jerusalem, and reached the home of the elderly Zechariah and Elisabeth, parents of John the Baptist, in Ein Karem, a part of Hebron. Ein means spring and karem means vineyard. Hebron is about 30km south of Jerusalem. The place is mentioned in the Jerusalem Calendar (dated before AD 638 ) as the place of a festival on August 28 in memory of Elisabeth meeting her cousin Mary.

Here is the schedule of activities:
Saturday - 34 BC August 19 – 3727 Av 27 – weekly sabbath, visit of archangel Gabriel
Sunday – 34 BC August 20 – 3727 Av 28
Monday – 34 BC August 21 – 3727 Av 29
Tuesday – 34 BC August 22 – 3727 Av 30
Wednesday – 34 BC August 23 – 3727 Elul 1 – New Moon Festival, high day sabbath
Thursday – 34 BC August 24 – 3727 Elul 2 – left Nazareth for Judah
Friday – 34 BC August 25 – 3727 Elul 3
Saturday – 34 BC August 26 – 3727 Elul 4 – weekly sabbath, stayed at place
Sunday – 34 BC August 27 – 3727 Elul 5 – continued walk, reached Jerusalem
Monday – 34 BC August 28 – 3727 Elul 6 – continued walk, reached destination

Norman: I see that the information above came from this website. Part 2 – Travel from Nazareth to Judah | My Blog True Birth of Jesus

Norman: I am assuming (below) that this is your blog? You need not post from the rest of your blog, I already read it. I bolded in red below what you stated and this is my reply. I do not know who “Ama” is? You chose the 25th because “Ama” said. You seem to not embrace the fact that piously religious Jews in the first century didn’t keep birthdays. It wasn’t prohibited by the Torah, but it was a foreign practice. Jesus himself probably didn’t know what his birth day was. His disciples didn’t know when he was born because they never mentioned it; it just was not a question a person would even ask back in the day. But if the information ever existed, by now it’s long gone. The Early Church Fathers come up with dates, but again just all guesses.

(Part 5 – Circumcision of John the Baptist, Posted by peacecrusader in Uncategorized. “This could have occurred on the 24th, 25th, 26th, or 27th of November. I chose the 25th because it is the date the spirit of Ama said that we conduct the “Blessing of the Children”.
Part 5 – Circumcision of John the Baptist | My Blog True Birth of Jesus)

Norman: (continue) No offense, but you offered a lot of Eisegesis in reference to the birthday of Jesus. You stated before that you believe that the canonical books of my Church is not holy writ. Have you even read any of them; and by the way, the Bible is part of our canon also. I have never read your book of “Pasiong Mahal,” so I cannot say it is or is not of God. I do not embrace Sabellianism as you do. With no factual information it is impossible to extrapolate accurately the birth of Jesus. It is axiomatic that good scholar (s) have a strong aptitude of facts and not fiction. I am very tenable, as is the books of canon in my Church and I believe in the true revealer of truth and that is the Holy Ghost. Besides looking at the Hebrew Calendar, I feel inclined by the Holy Ghost that Jesus was born April 6th, died April 6th and was resurrected April 6th. However, as a Latter Day Saint I celebrate our Pagan holidays just as they are. My favorite holidays is Christmas and Halloween. God Bless You.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

2 Peter 1: 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

If holy writ was written by holy men as moved upon by the Holy Ghost; then a person has to read holy writ and come to know by that same influence; the Holy Ghost, of what is true.

Source:

1611 King James Bible

 

[Norman]

And with that you just exposed the cult aspect of your faith that has made it so controversial. I'm an Orthodox and we don't practice shunning. Families are not required to break up if one of them leaves the church. In fact if the wife of an Orthodox priest became a Baha'i or an Atheist or whatever, but did not want to divorce him, and he divorced her over it, he would not be allowed to remarry while retaining his office.

Norman: Some people might think that you are in a cult? Why the disparaging comments about the Jehovah Witnesses?

 

[Norman]

I have no clue where that came from? Definitely does not sound like it came from us anywhere. Some ex-JW literature? I don't even want to know.

Norman: Wharton, If you left the Jehovah Witnesses Why can't you leave them alone now?

 

[Norman]

We come and go. We are Christians. Perhaps we are the locusts of Revelation 9.1-11.

Norman: wgw, I don't like the way you disparage other religions and try to dominate the Christian DIR thread. Maybe you need a thread just for you. And
what gives you the right to decide who is Christian and who is not Christian? God Bless You Bro

 

[peacecrusader888]

Norman: I see that the information above came from this website. Part 2 – Travel from Nazareth to Judah | My Blog True Birth of Jesus

Norman: I am assuming (below) that this is your blog? You need not post from the rest of your blog, I already read it. I bolded in red below what you stated and this is my reply.

@Norman
You are right. That one in Word Press is my blog but that is incomplete. It is only up to the circumcision of John the Baptist and return of Joseph and Mary to Nazareth.

 

[peacecrusader888]

I do not know who “Ama” is?

Who is Ama? Ama is a spirit, a holy spirit, THE Holy Spirit, if you will believe it. Most, if not all, of His listeners, believe that He is Jesus Christ Himself. We (plural) can not see Him, but we can hear Him loud and clear. We record on audio tape our conversations with Him which we call Sessions.

The word “ama” in the Philippine language means “father”. When capitalized, that is, “Ama”, it refers to “God the Father”. We call Him Ama and He calls us His children.

I first heard Him in 1983 when I first went to the Session Hall. I doubted that He is Jesus Christ for eleven years (1983-1994). You may read my aboutface in http://aristean.org/wp113.htm titled “From doubt to belief”.

Although I believed in 1994 that the spirit who we talk to is Jesus Christ, I said in 1999 that if He is wrong in His revelations that Jesus Christ was born on 05-23 and died on 08-17, I would recant my belief in Him and declare Him to be a fraud. I learned these revelations from older listeners in 1983. In my studies from 1999 to 2006 using mainly the Holy Bible, I was able to prove that both of them are true and correct. They reinforced my belief in Him. Who can know these two ancient dates? Only God!

Because I myself have proven them, I am enthusiastic to share what I discovered. As 2 Corinthians 4:13 states, “I believed, and therefore have I spoken.”

After my study in 2003, I still get proofs that Jesus was really crucified in August and not in March or April, in summer and not in spring. The latest was last year, 2014, where I read in John 21:7, “Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher’s coat unto him, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea.” If it was spring, do you think Simon Peter would be naked at 6 or 7 in the morning and “did cast himself into the sea”?

One thing that I like in Him is that He does not force people to believe Him. He does not ask us to abandon our church affiliation. Most are Roman Catholics but there are others who belong to other faiths. There is at least one person I know who was a Muslim. People may just pick out what is good and discard what is not.

 

[peacecrusader888]

You chose the 25th because “Ama” said. You seem to not embrace the fact that piously religious Jews in the first century didn’t keep birthdays. It wasn’t prohibited by the Torah, but it was a foreign practice. Jesus himself probably didn’t know what his birth day was. His disciples didn’t know when he was born because they never mentioned it; it just was not a question a person would even ask back in the day. But if the information ever existed, by now it’s long gone. The Early Church Fathers come up with dates, but again just all guesses.

(Part 5 – Circumcision of John the Baptist, Posted by peacecrusader in Uncategorized. “This could have occurred on the 24th, 25th, 26th, or 27th of November. I chose the 25th because it is the date the spirit of Ama said that we conduct the “Blessing of the Children”.
Part 5 – Circumcision of John the Baptist | My Blog True Birth of Jesus)

I chose the 25th because Ama said that it is the annual “Blessing of the Children”. We do not know why He chose that date.

is the celebration of birthday a foreign practice? Remember Herod (Mark 6:21) on his birthday commanded an executioner to behead the imprisoned John the Baptist.

Is it impossible for God to know the birthday of Jesus? Ama gave the two dates 05-23 birth and 08-17 death of Jesus. And both of them are true and correct.

 

[peacecrusader888]

Norman: (continue) No offense, but you offered a lot of Eisegesis in reference to the birthday of Jesus. You stated before that you believe that the canonical books of my Church is not holy writ. Have you even read any of them; and by the way, the Bible is part of our canon also. I have never read your book of “Pasiong Mahal,” so I cannot say it is or is not of God. I do not embrace Sabellianism as you do. With no factual information it is impossible to extrapolate accurately the birth of Jesus. It is axiomatic that good scholar (s) have a strong aptitude of facts and not fiction. I am very tenable, as is the books of canon in my Church and I believe in the true revealer of truth and that is the Holy Ghost. Besides looking at the Hebrew Calendar, I feel inclined by the Holy Ghost that Jesus was born April 6th, died April 6th and was resurrected April 6th. However, as a Latter Day Saint I celebrate our Pagan holidays just as they are. My favorite holidays is Christmas and Halloween. God Bless You.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

2 Peter 1: 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

If holy writ was written by holy men as moved upon by the Holy Ghost; then a person has to read holy writ and come to know by that same influence; the Holy Ghost, of what is true.

Source:

1611 King James Bible

Here is Part 3 (Arrival at Elisabeth’s home):

After travelling from 3727 Elul 2 to 6 (34 BC August 24-28) from their home at Nazareth, Joseph and Mary reached the home of the elderly Zechariah and Elisabeth at Ein Karem, a part of Hebron, in Judah. “Ein” means spring, and “karem” means viineyard. Hebron is about 30 km south of Jerusalem. The place is mentioned in the Jerusalem Calendar (dated before AD 638) as the place of a festival on August 28 in memory of Elisabeth meeting her cousin Mary.

Why did Mary have to make the 130 km journey to see her old and barren cousin Elisabeth? To check if what Archangel Gabriel was true.

This arrival in Hebron is in Luke 1:40-55 and in Pasiong Mahal, pages 18-19. Even the baby leaped in Elisabeth’s womb when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary.

8-8-8

Galatians 1:8-9 – “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you that that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you that that ye have received, let him be accursed.”

 

[peacecrusader888]

Part 4 – Birth of John the Baptist

When was the child of Zechariah and Elisabeth born? That child was John the Baptist. On Part 5, the date when the child was circumcised (naming of child) was determined according to Jewish tradition. The 25th was selected from four possible dates in November, all of which were six months before Jesus was born. It was the eighth day from John’s birth, i.e. if he was born on Saturday, he would be circumcised the following Saturday.. If he was circumcised on the 34 BC 11-25, he must have been born on 34 BC 11-18, which is six months before the birth of Jesus on 33 BC 05-23. The spirit of Ama revealed that Jesus was born on 05-23.

 

[Norman]

I chose the 25th because Ama said that it is the annual “Blessing of the Children”. We do not know why He chose that date.

is the celebration of birthday a foreign practice? Remember Herod (Mark 6:21) on his birthday commanded an executioner to behead the imprisoned John the Baptist.

Norman:

Only two birthdays are mentioned in the whole bible and these two men were not Jews and were not righteous men.

Genesis 40:20-23 contains the account of Pharaoh’s birthday celebration

Matthew 14:6-10 and Mark 6:21 have the account of the second birthday celebration, held for Herod


Is it impossible for God to know the birthday of Jesus? Ama gave the two dates 05-23 birth and 08-17 death of Jesus. And both of them are true and correct.

 

[Norman]

It's a cult thing when the threat of shunning is used to enforce submissiom to church authority. Tertullian actually left the Church of Rome (I.e. The actual church in Rome) and moved to a Montanist community in a remote province because he felt the Roman church was too forgiving and should be shunning people to a large extent. For this and his embrace of Montanism he is remembered as a heretic.

There is only one form of shunning the ancient church practiced. It was not excommunication, which was temporary and designed to be therapeutic, so that the excommunicate would not perish from communing unworthily (1 Cor 11:27-34). Rather it was anathematiation, delivering unrepentant heretics up to God. Strictly speaking by denying the divinity of the Son unrepentantly any member of Jehovah's Witnesses falls under the anathemas pronounced at Nicea, Constantinople, and the other Ecumenical councils. Perhaps Christians should give you a taste of your own medicine by literally applying this anathema, refusing to talk to Jwhovahs Witnesses in public and boycotting businesses you own. Would you like that? It's been a long time since JW missionaries come to my door, but next time I'll just shout "anathema maranatha!" and slams it in their face.

I did once use a Book of Mormon as fuel for my Thurible but came to regret it. The burning pages produced a foul odor that masked the incense and left a sticky residue. So I think I'll stop short of disintegrating any NWTs. Note that I retained the other freebie Book of Mormon and put it in my file for heresiology research.

The big problems I have with your faith though are your dangerous, silly and insanely literal interpretations of the text, and your modifications thereof. John 1:1 aside, do you REALLY think the Apostles in Jerusalem had blood transfusions in mind in Acts 15? The church later added to the hagiography of the Unmercenary healers Ss. Cosimas and Damian the story of them transplanting the leg of a deceased Erhiopian onto a Roman citizen whose leg had been crushed in the middle of the night, a hundred years or so after their death. While the authenticity of the account is questionable, it shows the early church in theory valued the idea of transplantation even if it believed that it could only happen through miraculous intervention.

Norman: If you are an orthodox of anything it is only in using, Pejorative, Harangue, Vituperative and Disparaging comments towards others and what they hold sacred.

 

[Norman]

The blood and body of our Lord exist in quantities sufficient to feed his flock. When, in the Orthodox Divine Liturgy, we pray the prayer known as the epiclesis we believe the bread and wine are changed into the actual body and blood of our Lord by the action of the Holy Spirit (rather than changing their substance while retaining their perceptual attributes at the Words of Institution which is the Roman Catholic belief, although Orthodox sometimes say we believe in transubstantiation for want of a word to properly express this mystical action).

Whereas it would be wrong to drink the blood of a human or an animal for that matter, it is not wrong to drink the blood of our Lord. The bread is of course an easier pill to swallow typologically and easier to distribute without spills, which are viewed by both Catholics and Orthodox as a gross impiety, which is why for some centuries the Roman church denied the chalice to the laity. The Orthodox have always distributed both in both species.

Now, having fasted since the night before, one would expect wine to upset the stomach or have a noticeable effect consumed directly (the Eastern Orthodox put the bread on a spoon with the wine, mixed with boiling water before serving it as this simulates the warmth of real blood; the other Orthodox don't do this), but this is not the case. In contrast the white wine (Orthodox church wine is always red) used in the local Episcopal church upset my stomach every time, even without Eucharistic fasting, and at the same time left that boozey aftertaste of strong wine.

Now what we're discussing is really the mystical theology of the second largest Christian denomination, the Orthodox, and to a large degree, that of the Roman Catholics, who of course retain the top spot for the moment. So while "this is a hard saying" as the masses in John 5-6 said after Jesus stated that to inherit eternal life we must eat his flesh and drink his blood, and indeed most of those present left on that note, happily, the majority of Christians now alive accept that teaching (when one factors in Lutherans who largely accept it and high church Anglicans, the numbers grow a bit more). And it is indeed part of the mystery that with some rare exceptions, for most who partake the texture and taste is pleasant, like bread and wine.

Now all religions worth believing in have a mystical element that defies rational thinking. I find the rationalism of some Protestant denominations to be soul crushing.

Norman: Nothing but hogwash and hocus pocus.

 

[Norman]

In my experience taking the Eucharist in the Orthodox Church if actual transubstantiation occurs the effect of the elements can be radicalLy different. This is why we call them "mysteries." I've had stomach flu and other ailments cured by the Eucharist properly consecrated. You and most Protestants I suspect would dismiss this as poppycock, which is your perogative of course. The nature of private mystical experience cannot be proven empirically of course. There is a prominent member here who claims he talks to Jesus, I think he talks to someone else, some probably accept his belief, while some atheists would (wrongly in my view) question his sincerity. I as a rule never doubt the sincerity of people's religious convictions unless there is reason to suspect fraud. I will say I've never seen a priest look buzzed after finishing the chalice.

Norman: I am not a protestant but your right "poppycock." There are no mysteries in my Church, it seems kind of a sad element to have.

 

[Norman]

Who knows for sure? And does it even matter?


This says Christmas was a reaction against Pagan festivities, not a succumbing to them. You might want to read your own sources more carefully next time to make sure that they don't disprove your own point.

As your very own source states, Christmas was a means of defending against pagan influence in Christianity, a bulwark warding off sieges from pagan culture. It was in no way a capitulation of Christianity to paganism, and to say otherwise is to ignore the facts of the case.

Norman: Hi Shiranui117, This is my take on the "Logos."
Heraclitus gave us “Logos.” It slowly seeped into Judaic culture John 1:1, 14, Logos simply means “Word.” According to Paul Tillich Heraclitus simply meant the law that determines the movements observed in all reality (Paul Tillich, A History of Christian Thought (New York: Harper & Row, 1968), 7.

 

[Shiranui117]

Norman: Hi Shiranui117, This is my take on the "Logos."
Heraclitus gave us “Logos.” It slowly seeped into Judaic culture John 1:1, 14, Logos simply means “Word.” According to Paul Tillich Heraclitus simply meant the law that determines the movements observed in all reality (Paul Tillich, A History of Christian Thought (New York: Harper & Row, 1968), 7.

Props to you for knowing the philosophy behind the term! While I agree with this, I will also point out that some Stoics posited that the Logos, this principle that orders and animates the universe, was God Himself. This Stoic interpretation of the Logos more than likely influenced Philo of Alexandria, and most certainly influenced the Gospel of John.