Was Muhammad a good man?

[FearGod]

I don't. I have little use for what very fallible men invent about God. Arabic is derived from the same Semitic source as Hebrew is, so they will have many similar words in them. What is far more important is the characteristics of the God they are used to describe. The Bible never uses Allah but even if it did it would be describing a being far different that the Quran's "Allah" describes. The same God will not have Christ dying on the cross in one book and not in the other. They are not the same being even if they used the same word to describe him (which they don't).

Yes i agree with you,your God is not similar to what God should be as described in the Quran.

Your God can be a man (human flesh).
Your God can urinate and defecate.
Your God was born by Virgin woman.
Your God have a son.
There are many,many,many differences.:yes:

Our God,allah as described in the quran.

Say: He is Allah, the One! (112:1)

Allah, the eternally Besought of all! (112:2)

He begetteth not nor was begotten. (112:3)

And there is none comparable unto Him. (112:4)

 

[1robin]

Yes i agree with you,your God is not similar to what God should be as described in the Quran.

Well that is refreshing.

Your God can be a man (human flesh).
Your God can urinate and defecate.
Your God was born by Virgin woman.
Your God have a son.
There are many,many,many differences.:yes:

Our God,allah as described in the quran.

Say: He is Allah, the One! (112:1)

Allah, the eternally Besought of all! (112:2)

He begetteth not nor was begotten. (112:3)

And there is none comparable unto Him. (112:4)

I do not think your God exists but that is what the Quran says about him. It also seems he can't do certain things that mine can. I thought your God was omnipotent? Anyway I agree they are not the same being and that is all I claimed.

 

[ImprobableBeing]

Of course I don't because he does not exist.

I have heard that several times. It would be meaningful only if you found that ice giants had ever existed in the first place. I will take a future universal peace over the elimination of ice giants that never existed to begin with any day. However if Oden can get rid of taxes it may change things a little.

Your arrogance knows no bounds it seems.

Not every reply in this forum is directed at you and when i quote someone that is NOT you you can be sure it's NOT for you.

Oden kept his promise, the Messiah didn't fulfill his prophecy though.

 

[FearGod]

Your arrogance knows no bounds it seems.

 

[ImprobableBeing]

The second coming is predicted by Christ. Unless you can show that claim was falsely inserted into the Bible then we have only your assertions where evidence should be.

LOL, you think you can use the testament after the Hebrew bible to justify what is IN the hebrew bible? If so anyone can make up anything and say "i'll do that when i return".

It's ridiculous and it's why Jews discard the myth as is.

 

[1robin]

Your arrogance knows no bounds it seems.

Not every reply in this forum is directed at you and when i quote someone that is NOT you you can be sure it's NOT for you.

Oden kept his promise, the Messiah didn't fulfill his prophecy though.

Exactly what was arrogant about making a post that mentioned Thor and then a few minutes mistakenly thinking one that mentions him was meant for me? Tough crowd. Oden is not worthy of spending my time debating but pick a Christ specific messianic prophecy he did not meet if you wish.

 

[1robin]

LOL, you think you can use the testament after the Hebrew bible to justify what is IN the hebrew bible? If so anyone can make up anything and say "i'll do that when i return".

It's ridiculous and it's why Jews discard the myth as is.

What the Jews have dismissed is an argument for it's truth if history is any judge. The OT its self is one long and sad tale of their consistently getting it wrong. I like Jews the most of all of histories cultures but their record on recognizing theological truth is a train wreck in general. I did not understand most of your first paragraph.

 

[1robin]

Cheerleading another's claims of arrogance are unjustified for a person who never even attempted to disprove what he must for his claims about Islamic science history to even begin to be taken seriously. Do you have any response to either the three top scientists of history lists, the top 100 scientists list, or the fathers of scientific fields themselves list I asked for or have you resolved your self to sarcasm alone? However I have always said that at least be funny if you have nothing of substance to say so I will not pick on you further at this point.

 

[FearGod]

Cheerleading another's claims of arrogance are unjustified for a person who never even attempted to disprove what he must for his claims about Islamic science history to even begin to be taken seriously. Do you have any response to either the three top scientists of history lists, the top 100 scientists list, or the fathers of scientific fields themselves list I asked for or have you resolved your self to sarcasm alone? However I have always said that at least be funny if you have nothing of substance to say so I will not pick on you further at this point.

My attempts to let you understand my point failed due to your arragance.

There was only one golden time in the whole history of Arabs and it was due to one man called prophet Mohammed.

But due to your arrogance you refused to accept the fact.

My comparison between Europe in the dark age and Muslim in the golden age is enough for any rational mind to realize how great he was.

 

[ImprobableBeing]

What the Jews have dismissed is an argument for it's truth if history is any judge. The OT its self is one long and sad tale of their consistently getting it wrong. I like Jews the most of all of histories cultures but their record on recognizing theological truth is a train wreck in general. I did not understand most of your first paragraph.

He didn't fulfill the prophecies and others than him made up stories about how he would do so when he returned.

This is not the Jewish Messiah no matter what you say, it simply isn't and no amount of crap made up after the fact will change that.

The Jews are adherent to their faith, Christians change it per location and mood and it was born from Paul the Persecutor, maybe one of the most dishonest people in the history of mankind, surpassed by few but equal to mohammed in visions of god and writing stories that benefited himself when he wrote them.

I also like how the people that stick to the scripture are a "trainwreck" while those that have rewritten a new testament mostly based on people who never met Jesus, which has then been translated, ripped apart and restored in a new form by the church and then presented as it is and interpreted in 315 ways are in NO way a trainwreck at all.

You're a funny little guy, your dances are amusing me.

 

[ImprobableBeing]

My attempts to let you understand my point failed due to your arragance.

There was only one golden time in the whole history of Arabs and it was due to one man called prophet Mohammed.

But due to your arrogance you refused to accept the fact.

My comparison between Europe in the dark age and Muslim in the golden age is enough for any rational mind to realize how great he was.

Sorry but the pedo warlord that "gained commans" from god in a way that would benefit him in every way and often just so he could get his will through (his brothers wife amongst a whole heap of things) isn't more trustworthy than 1Robin, that is to say, whatever is said can be discarded because it's obviously only in self interest and false.

 

[1robin]

My attempts to let you understand my point failed due to your arragance.

Do you know what the word arrogance means? You do not know how to spell it and you have no reason to be using it here. I understood what you meant perfectly fine. It just was not true.

There was only one golden time in the whole history of Arabs and it was due to one man called prophet Mohammed.

Islam's "Golden days" in military expansion and science came after Muhammad had been poisoned by the wife of one of his many victims.

My comparison between Europe in the dark age and Muslim in the golden age is enough for any rational mind to realize how great he was.

Yes, I have already agreed to this irrelevant fact about a dozen times. Explained why it is irrelevant and explained what was relevant. Yes Europe sat still for awhile then woke up passed Islam and never looked back. So? If everyone is sitting still the man who is crawling is not doing anything meaningful. Islam had it's day in science as almost every cultural group in history. It's days were shorter and less important that the major cultures including Christianity in science as a whole but they did have their day or two. Why is that worth mentioning?

 

[1robin]

He didn't fulfill the prophecies and others than him made up stories about how he would do so when he returned.

This is not the Jewish Messiah no matter what you say, it simply isn't and no amount of crap made up after the fact will change that.

The Jews are adherent to their faith, Christians change it per location and mood and it was born from Paul the Persecutor, maybe one of the most dishonest people in the history of mankind, surpassed by few but equal to mohammed in visions of god and writing stories that benefited himself when he wrote them.

I also like how the people that stick to the scripture are a "trainwreck" while those that have rewritten a new testament mostly based on people who never met Jesus, which has then been translated, ripped apart and restored in a new form by the church and then presented as it is and interpreted in 315 ways are in NO way a trainwreck at all.

You're a funny little guy, your dances are amusing me.

God judged them countless times for their shipwrecking of his word. They even ceased to exist as a nation several times because of that specifically. I do not think that needs further input and since you lack the self control to resist insults, cursing, and civility I believe I am done with you for now.

 

[ImprobableBeing]

Whatever your running is amuck and I am not getting involved any further with it. Truth and rationality are not something I can insist of everyone but the minimum of civility is. Consider yourself ignored.

LOL, you haven't read your bible, have you?

All Jews are are forgiven by the hardships of their ancestors, we are the chosen ones.

Don't worry you won't go to hell, you'll just become nothing, that is the promise from the god of the Jews.

Of course you have never read your bible, or you have and now you want to ignore what it actually says, you either know it because you have read it or you're ignorant on the subject but it is right there.

I can quote it for you in actual Hebrew if you want to but this forum doesn't work well with hebrew language (the fonts become strange and they autoreplace vowels that are not used in Hebrew) but you can also read it in the actual bible that you claim to have read so.

 

[FearGod]

Do you know what the word arrogance means? You do not know how to spell it and you have no reason to be using it here. I understood what you meant perfectly fine. It just was not true.

i can see how hard are you fetching for one mistake from my side,even for the pronunciation.

Islam's "Golden days" in military expansion and science came after Muhammad had been poisoned by the wife of one of his many victims.

Muhammed PBUH was poisoned.:biglaugh:

But the true story is that Aisha is the one who poisoned him but they accused another woman to save Aisha . (reference : Bukhari for the stupids)

im even afraid that you'll take it seriously

Yes, I have already agreed to this irrelevant fact about a dozen times. Explained why it is irrelevant and explained what was relevant. Yes Europe sat still for awhile then woke up passed Islam and never looked back. So? If everyone is sitting still the man who is crawling is not doing anything meaningful. Islam had it's day in science as almost every cultural group in history. It's days were shorter and less important that the major cultures including Christianity in science as a whole but they did have their day or two. Why is that worth mentioning?

Actually most of the science came to Europe from Muslims and Jews and i think the genetic factor of jews and muslims have its great effect on Europe through marriage.

For example one famous American inventor "Steve Jobs"

2) His father's name is Abdulfattah Jandali. If you had to ask me what Steve Job's father's name was I never in one zillion years would've guessed that and that Steve Jobs biologically was half Syrian Muslim.

Not to mention the US president Obama.,i wonder if you love him.

Reference: 10 Unusual Things You Probably Don't Know About Steve Jobs - DailyFinance

 

[ImprobableBeing]

Well isn't this wierd, a Jew and a Muslim sharing a common enemy...

 

[1robin]

i can see how hard are you fetching for one mistake from my side,even for the pronunciation.

That was a joke. I need not look hard for the problems with Islamic arguments.

Muhammed PBUH was poisoned.:biglaugh:

There is simply no predicting what parts of history will be denied if inconvenient I guess. Here is an Islamic source quoting several more Islamic sources.
Saheeh Bukhari
Volume 003, Book 047, Hadith Number 786.
Narated By Anas bin Malik : A Jewess brought a poisoned (cooked) sheep for the Prophet who ate from it. She was brought to the Prophet and he was asked, "Shall we kill her?" He said, "No." I continued to see the effect of the poison on the palate of the mouth of Allah's Apostle.

Volume 004, Book 053, Hadith Number 394.
Narated By Abu Huraira : When Khaibar was conquered, a roasted poisoned sheep was presented to the Prophets as a gift (by the Jews). The Prophet ordered, "Let all the Jews who have been here, be assembled before me." The Jews were collected and the Prophet said (to them), "I am going to ask you a question. Will you tell the truth?'' They said, "Yes.' The Prophet asked, "Who is your father?" They replied, "So-and-so." He said, "You have told a ie; your father is so-and-so." They said, "You are right." He siad, "Will you now tell me the truth, if I ask you about something?" They replied, "Yes, O AbuAl-Qasim; and if we should tell a lie, you can realize our lie as you have done regarding our father." On that he asked, "Who are the people of the (Hell) Fire?" They said, "We shall remain in the (Hell) Fire for a short period, and after that you will replace us." The Prophet said, "You may be cursed and humiliated in it! By Allah, we shall never replace you in it.'' Then he asked, "Will you now tell me the truth if I ask you a question?" They said, "Yes, O Ab Li-AI-Qasim." He asked, "Have you poisoned this sheep?" They said, "Yes." He asked, "What made you do so?" They said, "We wanted to know if you were a liar in which case we would get rid of you, and if you are a prophet then the poison would not harm you."

Volume 005, Book 059, Hadith Number 713.
Narated By Ibn Abbas : 'Umar bin Al-Khattab used to let Ibn Abbas sit beside him, so 'AbdurRahman bin 'Auf said to 'Umar, "We have sons similar to him." 'Umar replied, "(I respect him) because of his status that you know." 'Umar then asked Ibn 'Abbas about the meaning of this Holy Verse: "When comes the help of Allah and the conquest of Mecca..." (110.1)
Ibn 'Abbas replied, "That indicated the death of Allah's Apostle which Allah informed him of." 'Umar said, "I do not understand of it except what you understand."
Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, "O 'Aisha! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison."

That had an impact in causing his death, so he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) died as a martyr (shaheed), as Ibn Mas’ood (may Allaah be pleased with him) said:
“If I were to swear by Allaah nine times that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was killed, that is more beloved to me than swearing once, because Allaah made him a Prophet and made him a martyr.” Narrated by Ahmad, 3617. The editors said, its isnaad is saheeh according to the conditions of Muslim.
Al-Sindi said: The words “he was killed” mean by the poison in the meat of the sheep’s foreleg that he ate, when the effects of that appeared when he was dying.
Quoted from Haashiyat al-Musnad, 6/116…
http://www.answering christianity.com/bassam_zawadi/prophet_poison_death.htm

There are even many Islamic sites that claim he must be a prophet specifically because he was poisoned. How they get that I don't know but his being poisoned has mush evidence in Islamic sources.

But the true story is that Aisha is the one who poisoned him but they accused another woman to save Aisha . (reference : Bukhari for the stupids)

I have never heard it was her that did it. He is only said to her that he was poisoned.

im even afraid that you'll take it seriously

I am afraid you take nothing inconvenient seriously enough.

Actually most of the science came to Europe from Muslims and Jews and i think the genetic factor of jews and muslims have its great effect on Europe through marriage.

For example one famous American inventor "Steve Jobs"

2) His father's name is Abdulfattah Jandali. If you had to ask me what Steve Job's father's name was I never in one zillion years would've guessed that and that Steve Jobs biologically was half Syrian Muslim.

Not to mention the US president Obama.,i wonder if you love him.

Reference: 10 Unusual Things You Probably Don't Know About Steve Jobs - DailyFinance

He is the worst president with a single exception in American history. However none of this is the point. Giving a Muslim here or one with an Arabic name there that invented something or discovered something means nothing. Every list I found I also posted and I could not find a single Islamic name on any of them but did find hundreds of Christians and Jews. Until you can do something about that what Islam did in science is nothing extraordinary by any standard. Are you ever going to deal with those lists or not? Until you do random names and claims about what you think have no explanatory power. Steve jobs is not a Muslim and invented no field of science anyway. In fact I am done with. You are never going to contend with what I said and apparently have no intention of even trying. Christians made far more impact in science that Islam has and I have shown that over and over.

 

[illykitty]

First the text is objectively different no matter what standard you use. Second a person may consider true anything they wish including things that are not true. Third in what way does interpretation reconcile these two statement?

Jesus died on the cross.
They did not crucify nor kill him.

How can the same God claim mutually exclusive things? You are welcome to believe what you wish but given that everything we have or will have is in the balance I would hope you would be more careful about why you believe what you do. Allah in the Quran and Yahweh in the Bible are irreconcilable unless scriptures of both books are tortured and mangled so badly they no longer mean anything.

Oh because you hold the truth?

 

[FearGod]

That was a joke. I need not look hard for the problems with Islamic arguments.

Same thing with christianity.

There is simply no predicting what parts of history will be denied if inconvenient I guess. Here is an Islamic source quoting several more Islamic sources.
Saheeh Bukhari
Volume 003, Book 047, Hadith Number 786.
Narated By Anas bin Malik : A Jewess brought a poisoned (cooked) sheep for the Prophet who ate from it. She was brought to the Prophet and he was asked, "Shall we kill her?" He said, "No." I continued to see the effect of the poison on the palate of the mouth of Allah's Apostle.

So she brought a cooked sheep (abt 16kg = 35 pound) for the prophet to eat as if she knew for sure that he will eat the cooked sheep,how they brought the woman to the prophet,did they record her ID or passbort or did they have her photo.

Volume 004, Book 053, Hadith Number 394.
Narated By Abu Huraira : When Khaibar was conquered, a roasted poisoned sheep was presented to the Prophets as a gift (by the Jews). The Prophet ordered, "Let all the Jews who have been here, be assembled before me." The Jews were collected and the Prophet said (to them), "I am going to ask you a question. Will you tell the truth?'' They said, "Yes.' The Prophet asked, "Who is your father?" They replied, "So-and-so." He said, "You have told a ie; your father is so-and-so." They said, "You are right." He siad, "Will you now tell me the truth, if I ask you about something?" They replied, "Yes, O AbuAl-Qasim; and if we should tell a lie, you can realize our lie as you have done regarding our father." On that he asked, "Who are the people of the (Hell) Fire?" They said, "We shall remain in the (Hell) Fire for a short period, and after that you will replace us." The Prophet said, "You may be cursed and humiliated in it! By Allah, we shall never replace you in it.'' Then he asked, "Will you now tell me the truth if I ask you a question?" They said, "Yes, O Ab Li-AI-Qasim." He asked, "Have you poisoned this sheep?" They said, "Yes." He asked, "What made you do so?" They said, "We wanted to know if you were a liar in which case we would get rid of you, and if you are a prophet then the poison would not harm you."

Again a different story than the previous one,this time the jews brought a poisoned sheep and not a woman.

Volume 005, Book 059, Hadith Number 713.
Narated By Ibn Abbas : 'Umar bin Al-Khattab used to let Ibn Abbas sit beside him, so 'AbdurRahman bin 'Auf said to 'Umar, "We have sons similar to him." 'Umar replied, "(I respect him) because of his status that you know." 'Umar then asked Ibn 'Abbas about the meaning of this Holy Verse: "When comes the help of Allah and the conquest of Mecca..." (110.1)
Ibn 'Abbas replied, "That indicated the death of Allah's Apostle which Allah informed him of." 'Umar said, "I do not understand of it except what you understand."
Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, "O 'Aisha! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison."

What kind of poison that kills after 3 years from consumption.

That had an impact in causing his death, so he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) died as a martyr (shaheed), as Ibn Mas’ood (may Allaah be pleased with him) said:
“If I were to swear by Allaah nine times that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was killed, that is more beloved to me than swearing once, because Allaah made him a Prophet and made him a martyr.” Narrated by Ahmad, 3617. The editors said, its isnaad is saheeh according to the conditions of Muslim.
Al-Sindi said: The words “he was killed” mean by the poison in the meat of the sheep’s foreleg that he ate, when the effects of that appeared when he was dying.
Quoted from Haashiyat al-Musnad, 6/116…
http://www.answering christianity.com/bassam_zawadi/prophet_poison_death.htm

And here is another story

From Ibn Sa'd page 249:
Verily a Jewish woman presented poisoned (meat of) a she goat to the apostle of Allah. He took a piece form it, put it into his mouth, chewed it and threw it away. Then he said to the Companions: "Halt! Verily, its leg tells me that it is poisoned." Then he sent for the Jewish woman and asked her; "What induced you to do what you have done?" She replied, "I wanted to know if you are true; in that case Allah will surely inform you, and if you are a liar I shall relieve the people of you."

Another Story

From Tabari Volume 8, page 123, 124:
When the messenger of God rested from his labor, Zaynab bt. al-Harith, the wife of Sallam b. Mishkam, served him a roast sheep. She had asked what part of the sheep the messenger of God liked best and was told that it was the foreleg. So she loaded that part with poison, and she poisoned the rest of the sheep too. Then she brought it. When she set it before the messenger of God, he took the foreleg and chewed a bit of it, but he did not swallow it. With him was Bishr b. al-Bara b. Marur, who, like the messenger of God, took some of it; Bishr, however, swallowed it, while the messenger of God spat it out saying, "This bone informs me that it has been poisoned." He asked, "What led you to do this?" She said: "How you have afflicted my people is not hidden from you. So I said, "If he is a prophet, he will be informed; but if he is a king, I shall be rid of him"". The prophet forgave her. Bishr died of the food he had eaten.

There are even many Islamic sites that claim he must be a prophet specifically because he was poisoned. How they get that I don't know but his being poisoned has mush evidence in Islamic sources.

Tell me where on earth a poison that works after 3 years of consumption.

He is the worst president with a single exception in American history. However none of this is the point. Giving a Muslim here or one with an Arabic name there that invented something or discovered something means nothing. Every list I found I also posted and I could not find a single Islamic name on any of them but did find hundreds of Christians and Jews. Until you can do something about that what Islam did in science is nothing extraordinary by any standard. Are you ever going to deal with those lists or not? Until you do random names and claims about what you think have no explanatory power. Steve jobs is not a Muslim and invented no field of science anyway. In fact I am done with. You are never going to contend with what I said and apparently have no intention of even trying. Christians made far more impact in science that Islam has and I have shown that over and over.

It is a stupid idea to think of intellectual abilities to be related to one's religion.

The scientist or inventor can be a jew,a muslim,an atheist,a hindus,a buddhist ..etc, so keep the list of the most important scientist in history for yourself.

My discussion was the effect of prophet Mohammed in changing one community from ignorance to the Islamic empire reaching Europe and the far east.

 

[Monotheist 101]

All Jews are are forgiven by the hardships of their ancestors, we are the chosen ones.

I think your talking out of your..you can fill in the blank.

What happened to:

1. (Deuteronomy 24:16) - "Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin."
2. (Ezekiel 18:20) - "The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself."