Was Muhammad a good man?

[Monotheist 101]

Muhammed PBUH was poisoned.:biglaugh:

But the true story is that Aisha is the one who poisoned him but they accused another woman to save Aisha . (reference : Bukhari for the stupids)

Salam.

IMO that story is a load of bull, Shia allegations.. You are Quranist are you? Please provide proof for this absurd claim. You forget that she is the mother of the faithful, no human being is perfect, This is the kind of thing I am at odds with Quranists for, they go too far when rejecting the hadith, disgracing the narrators, AH, Aisha, the compilers..etc, why not just keep a middle ground?

Let me remind you what the Quran has to say about Aisha.

Behold, ye received it on your tongues, and said out of your mouths things of which ye had no knowledge; and ye thought it to be a light matter, while it was most serious in the sight of Allah. (Surah An-Noor, Verse 15)

And why did ye not, when ye heard it, say? - "It is not right of us to speak of this: Glory to Allah. this is a most serious slander!" (Surah An-Noor, Verse 16)

Allah doth admonish you, that ye may never repeat such (conduct), if ye are (true) Believers. (Surah An-Noor, Verse 17)

And Allah makes the Signs plain to you: for Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom. (Surah An-Noor, Verse 18)

Those who love (to see) scandal published broadcast among the Believers, will have a grievous Penalty in this life and in the Hereafter: Allah knows, and ye know not. (Surah An-Noor, Verse 19)

Were it not for the grace and mercy of Allah on you, and that Allah is full of kindness and mercy, (ye would be ruined indeed). (Surah An-Noor, Verse 20)

O ye who believe! follow not Satan's footsteps: if any will follow the footsteps of Satan, he will (but) command what is shameful and wrong: and were it not for the grace and mercy of Allah on you, not one of you would ever have been pure: but Allah doth purify whom He pleases: and Allah is One Who hears and knows (all things). (Surah An-Noor, Verse 21)

Those who slander chaste women, indiscreet but believing, are cursed in this life and in the Hereafter: for them is a grievous Penalty,- (Surah An-Noor, Verse 23)

And here we are, 1400 years later, the same gene still survives in our people, why take part in this slander..what proof do you have?

 

[FearGod]

Salam.

IMO that story is a load of bull, Shia allegations.. You are Quranist are you? Please provide proof for this absurd claim. You forget that she is the mother of the faithful, no human being is perfect, This is the kind of thing I am at odds with Quranists for, they go too far when rejecting the hadith, disgracing the narrators, AH, Aisha, the compilers..etc, why not just keep a middle ground?

Let me remind you what the Quran has to say about Aisha.

Behold, ye received it on your tongues, and said out of your mouths things of which ye had no knowledge; and ye thought it to be a light matter, while it was most serious in the sight of Allah. (Surah An-Noor, Verse 15)

And why did ye not, when ye heard it, say? - "It is not right of us to speak of this: Glory to Allah. this is a most serious slander!" (Surah An-Noor, Verse 16)

Allah doth admonish you, that ye may never repeat such (conduct), if ye are (true) Believers. (Surah An-Noor, Verse 17)

And Allah makes the Signs plain to you: for Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom. (Surah An-Noor, Verse 18)

Those who love (to see) scandal published broadcast among the Believers, will have a grievous Penalty in this life and in the Hereafter: Allah knows, and ye know not. (Surah An-Noor, Verse 19)

Were it not for the grace and mercy of Allah on you, and that Allah is full of kindness and mercy, (ye would be ruined indeed). (Surah An-Noor, Verse 20)

O ye who believe! follow not Satan's footsteps: if any will follow the footsteps of Satan, he will (but) command what is shameful and wrong: and were it not for the grace and mercy of Allah on you, not one of you would ever have been pure: but Allah doth purify whom He pleases: and Allah is One Who hears and knows (all things). (Surah An-Noor, Verse 21)

Those who slander chaste women, indiscreet but believing, are cursed in this life and in the Hereafter: for them is a grievous Penalty,- (Surah An-Noor, Verse 23)

And here we are, 1400 years later, the same gene still survives in our people, why take part in this slander..what proof do you have?

Salam brother,

i don't believe the stories of poisoning the prophet PBUH because there are several different stories which contradicting each others.

i am not a quranist,but i am just cautious which hadith to accept and which to reject.

 

[Monotheist 101]

Salam brother,

i don't believe the stories of poisoning the prophet PBUH because there are several different stories which contradicting each others.

i am not a quranist,but i am just cautious which hadith to accept and which to reject.

How do you justify knowing the "truth" that Aisha did it? Anyways bro I think looking at these matters, It is quite clear that we have no say in what happened or will happen regarding these things on the day of judgement, I cant for the life of me figure out why you and others go soo far with their judgements, hold a middle ground, hope for the best, for everyone..again please believe what you want to believe but refrain from such slander..how does this make you any different from 1robin? who thinks he is "in" on the truth?

I am also very cautious, but I try to never overstep my boundaries..slandering, spreading lies and rumors..

 

[FearGod]

How do you justify knowing the "truth" that Aisha did it? Anyways bro I think looking at these matters, It is quite clear that we have no say in what happened or will happen regarding these things on the day of judgement, I cant for the life of me figure out why you and others go soo far with their judgements, hold a middle ground, hope for the best, for everyone..again please believe what you want to believe but refrain from such slander..how does this make you any different from 1robin? who thinks he is "in" on the truth?

I am also very cautious, but I try to never overstep my boundaries..slandering, spreading lies and rumors..

i was mocking the alleged story about the prophet by saying that Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) did it,because saying something wont make it true,thats why i end it as (Bukhari for the stupids)

Also i don't mean anything about Bukhari who did a great work in collecting the hadith but i mean that we shouldn't believe anything without investigating it properly.

 

[1robin]

Oh because you hold the truth?

I know the truth but I don't hold it exactly. However that is beside the point. The point is two mutually exclusive claims can't both be true. One or both are wrong. Either Allah or Yahweh does not exist. I made my choice and received confirmation.

 

[1robin]

Same thing with christianity.

So far you have no been able to show that in science anyway. I do however agree Christians (not Christianity) has more than enough problems.

So she brought a cooked sheep (abt 16kg = 35 pound) for the prophet to eat as if she knew for sure that he will eat the cooked sheep,how they brought the woman to the prophet,did they record her ID or passbort or did they have her photo.

She was like most of those around Muhammad. Enslaved to some task or another. She happened to be involved with cooking.

Again a different story than the previous one,this time the jews brought a poisoned sheep and not a woman.

They are you sources why do you expect them to be consistent? If two reporters go to the same game and one said that team X lost and the other said team Y won would you assume that no game took place because that is what you are trying to do here. If several sources agree on the primary claims you do not claim it did not occur even if they disagree about secondary details.

What kind of poison that kills after 3 years from consumption.

Almost all if ingested in just the right amount. Unless you are a chemists and did the autopsy I don't think this line of reasoning will help your case.

And here is another story

From Ibn Sa'd page 249:
Verily a Jewish woman presented poisoned (meat of) a she goat to the apostle of Allah. He took a piece form it, put it into his mouth, chewed it and threw it away. Then he said to the Companions: "Halt! Verily, its leg tells me that it is poisoned." Then he sent for the Jewish woman and asked her; "What induced you to do what you have done?" She replied, "I wanted to know if you are true; in that case Allah will surely inform you, and if you are a liar I shall relieve the people of you."

Another Story

From Tabari Volume 8, page 123, 124:
When the messenger of God rested from his labor, Zaynab bt. al-Harith, the wife of Sallam b. Mishkam, served him a roast sheep. She had asked what part of the sheep the messenger of God liked best and was told that it was the foreleg. So she loaded that part with poison, and she poisoned the rest of the sheep too. Then she brought it. When she set it before the messenger of God, he took the foreleg and chewed a bit of it, but he did not swallow it. With him was Bishr b. al-Bara b. Marur, who, like the messenger of God, took some of it; Bishr, however, swallowed it, while the messenger of God spat it out saying, "This bone informs me that it has been poisoned." He asked, "What led you to do this?" She said: "How you have afflicted my people is not hidden from you. So I said, "If he is a prophet, he will be informed; but if he is a king, I shall be rid of him"". The prophet forgave her. Bishr died of the food he had eaten.

So we have 5 or six stories that Muhammad was poisoned but because they have details that differ (as every single testimony always does in any age of any type) you reject the whole thing and wash your hands of it. Why do you even care? Is it embarrassing or something? Other Muslims like to claim that being poisoned somehow makes him a prophet.

Tell me where on earth a poison that works after 3 years of consumption.

Almost all poisons can do this. Especially as they claim he detected the poison and only got some of it in his system. There are literally thousands of things that prolonged exposure to will eventually lead to death. A famous one is mercury, also lead, in modern times asbestos, etc.....

It is a stupid idea to think of intellectual abilities to be related to one's religion.

I think your the one that claimed it to begin with but no it is not a stupid idea. If you have a group connected to the author of al nature and science and another disconnected from anything transcendent it is very logical to think those connected to God would be given a little of his infinite knowledge but you brought it up.

The scientist or inventor can be a jew,a muslim,an atheist,a hindus,a buddhist ..etc, so keep the list of the most important scientist in history for yourself.

Don't start a contest and lose at it then declare it was stupid anyone. That does not look good.

My discussion was the effect of prophet Mohammed in changing one community from ignorance to the Islamic empire reaching Europe and the far east.

So did Rome (several times) on a far larger and more impressive scale. So did Greece several times. So did China. Muhammad created an army that almost destroyed its self before it could destroy others. It took over an almost desolate N Africa, the last vestiges of the crumbling Eastern Roman empire, then ran into some European knights in central Spain (which were the first real soldiers it faced outside Constantinople and which he outnumbered many times over) and was defeated and eventually drive out. What he did was impressive but not rare, not benevolent, and not in the top ten of histories great military leaders. Many men have done the same things only bigger, longer lasting, and over more territory.

 

[Monotheist 101]

I know the truth but I don't hold it. However that is beside the point. The point is two mutually exclusive claims can't both be true. One or both are wrong. Either Allah or Yahweh does not exist. I made my choice and received confirmation.

I think what you fail to grasp is that they are both references to the same entity.
You are so caught up in the names, I wonder if you ever ask yourself what is more important spreading Jesus's message of love and acting on it or engaging in useless my wee is bigger than yours debates online? I am at peace with believing that the God of the Quran the OT and the father in your trinity are names referring to the same all powerful being.

 

[1robin]

Salam.

IMO that story is a load of bull, Shia allegations.. You are Quranist are you? Please provide proof for this absurd claim. You forget that she is the mother of the faithful, no human being is perfect, This is the kind of thing I am at odds with Quranists for, they go too far when rejecting the hadith, disgracing the narrators, AH, Aisha, the compilers..etc, why not just keep a middle ground?

Let me remind you what the Quran has to say about Aisha.

Behold, ye received it on your tongues, and said out of your mouths things of which ye had no knowledge; and ye thought it to be a light matter, while it was most serious in the sight of Allah. (Surah An-Noor, Verse 15)

And why did ye not, when ye heard it, say? - "It is not right of us to speak of this: Glory to Allah. this is a most serious slander!" (Surah An-Noor, Verse 16)

Allah doth admonish you, that ye may never repeat such (conduct), if ye are (true) Believers. (Surah An-Noor, Verse 17)

And Allah makes the Signs plain to you: for Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom. (Surah An-Noor, Verse 18)

Those who love (to see) scandal published broadcast among the Believers, will have a grievous Penalty in this life and in the Hereafter: Allah knows, and ye know not. (Surah An-Noor, Verse 19)

Were it not for the grace and mercy of Allah on you, and that Allah is full of kindness and mercy, (ye would be ruined indeed). (Surah An-Noor, Verse 20)

O ye who believe! follow not Satan's footsteps: if any will follow the footsteps of Satan, he will (but) command what is shameful and wrong: and were it not for the grace and mercy of Allah on you, not one of you would ever have been pure: but Allah doth purify whom He pleases: and Allah is One Who hears and knows (all things). (Surah An-Noor, Verse 21)

Those who slander chaste women, indiscreet but believing, are cursed in this life and in the Hereafter: for them is a grievous Penalty,- (Surah An-Noor, Verse 23)

And here we are, 1400 years later, the same gene still survives in our people, why take part in this slander..what proof do you have?

The Quran is full of nothing if not beheadings, threats, claims about who Allah does not love, and curses. It is the most depressing book I ever read and its concept of love is substandard compared to the Bible. However I never claimed anything about Aisha poisoning anyone and do not fear the wrath of a God who I am certain does not exist for offenses I never committed anyway.

I promised and meant to do this much earlier but got distracted by the ridiculous science claims of Islam. I looked very hard into Aisha's age at marriage etc. In spite of the fact you will yell bias tomorrow or the next day anyway I have determined not to use that argument about her age anymore, unless I forget. There exists good evidence for her being very young and for her being in her teens at marriage. I regard her own statements as the best evidence and she claimed she was very young. It is not conclusive however so I will avoid that issue in the future, as Islam never runs out of reasons to deny it. So much for my bias.

 

[Monotheist 101]

The Quran is full of nothing if not beheadings, threats, claims about who Allah does not love, and curses. It is the most depressing book I ever read and its concept of love is substandard compared to the Bible. However I never claimed anything about Aisha poisoning anyone and do not fear the wrath of a God who I am certain does not exist for offenses I never committed anyway.

I promised and meant to do this much earlier but got distracted by the ridiculous science claims of Islam. I looked very hard into Aisha's age at marriage etc. In spite of the fact you will yell bias tomorrow or the next day anyway I have determined not to use that argument about her age anymore, unless I forget. There exists good evidence for her being very young and for her being in her teens at marriage. I regard her own statements as the best evidence and she claimed she was very young. It is not conclusive however so I will avoid that issue in the future, as Islam never runs out of reasons to deny it. So much for my bias.

Dude you really have to pull ur head out from under you know where..not everything on this forum is directed at you, gosh i thought someone just mentioned it a few pages ago.

 

[1robin]

Dude you really have to pull ur head out from under you know where..not everything on this forum is directed at you, gosh i thought someone just mentioned it a few pages ago.

I made no claim about who that post was directed towards. I simply used it to make a point I meant to anyway. Unless you have the capacity and authority and some sort of reasons I may not reply to posts not directed at me I do not think where MY head is, is the issue. I would hate to walk around that frustrated all the time.

 

[1robin]

I think what you fail to grasp is that they are both references to the same entity.

I care little what Muhammad meant because they are not the same being. They act completely different, claim mutually exclusive things, do not have the same nature, even get the same stories constantly mixed up. I will give an example.

Muhammad thought the trinity included Mary. Only a very few Arabian Christians believed that. It has never ever been a mainstream Christian doctrine. In fact we know how Muhammad came to believe that. Allah if he was God would have known that was not even what the doctrine was (whether it was true or not is not the issue).

Allah and Yahweh are no more the same divine being as a corvette and a Saab are the same car.

You are so caught up in the names,

That is exactly wrong. I am paying attention to actions, doctrines, internal consistency, and history. It is Islam who is caught up in the generic de4scription of a general God.

I wonder if you ever ask yourself what is more important spreading Jesus's message of love and acting on it or engaging in useless my wee is bigger than yours debates online?

Your the second Muslim today that condemned an argument I did not initiate because it was lost by the Muslim who did.

I am at peace with believing that the God of the Quran the OT and the father in your trinity are names referring to the same all powerful being.

I did not get the memo about what makes you peaceful is the arbiter of all truth. Yahweh said Jesus died on the cross. Allah said he did not. How are they the same being? Allah got Mary's family wrong by centuries, historical events of all types wrong, borrowed from pagan and heretical texts, and contradicted himself. If My God is the same one that did that then I quit. That God does not merit worship.

 

[MeLtiZBleaCh]

I care little what Muhammad meant because they are not the same being. They act completely different, claim mutually exclusive things, do not have the same nature, even get the same stories constantly mixed up. I will give an example.

Muhammad thought the trinity included Mary. Only a very few Arabian Christians believed that. It has never ever been a mainstream Christian doctrine. In fact we know how Muhammad came to believe that. Allah if he was God would have known that was not even what the doctrine was (whether it was true or not is not the issue).

When did Muhammad ever think of that? Mary in the trinity i.e.
Would be nice if you point that out. Add to my knowledge.

As for The thing whether they are the same God or not.
1) Both claim the existence of Jesus.
2) Both have major differences in The important details.
3) These differences are big enough to ensure that ONLY ONE CAN Be true.
@Monotheist you are misunderstanding something. BIBLE is a book of Allah but the NT is not a book of Allah. Or rather you do know that but cant express it in the correct words. Cause Robin1 believes in the account Of the NT. But we muslims believe in the Orignal bible(Apparently lost now). And believe that the orignal bible did not contain a difference in details. So the God of the orignal bible and That of Quran is the same.

 

[1robin]

When did Muhammad ever think of that? Mary in the trinity i.e.
Would be nice if you point that out. Add to my knowledge.

As for The thing whether they are the same God or not.
1) Both claim the existence of Jesus.
2) Both have major differences in The important details.
3) These differences are big enough to ensure that ONLY ONE CAN Be true.
@Monotheist you are misunderstanding something. BIBLE is a book of Allah but the NT is not a book of Allah. Or rather you do know that but cant express it in the correct words. Cause Robin1 believes in the account Of the NT. But we muslims believe in the Orignal bible(Apparently lost now). And believe that the orignal bible did not contain a difference in details. So the God of the orignal bible and That of Quran is the same.

Say not... three, "Namely, God, Jesus, Mary. For the Eastern writers mention a sect of Christians which held the Trinity to be composed of those three; but it is allowed that this heresy has been long since extinct (Elmacin, p. 227). The passage, however, is equally levelled against the Holy Trinity, according to the doctrine of the orthodox Christians, who, as Al Baidhawi acknowledges, believe the divine nature to consist of three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost; by the Father, understanding God's essence; by the Son, his knowledge; and by the Holy Ghost, his life." - Sale.

See also Prelim. Disc., p. 64.
The commentators Baidhawi, Jalaluddin, and Yahya agree in interpreting the three to mean "God, Jesus, and Mary," in the relation of Father, Mother, and Son. This misrepresentation of the Scripture doctrine again stamps the Qur'an as a fabrication, and furnishes the evidence of its being such on the ground of its own claims. The history of the Church, as well as the Bible, proves the statement of the text, as interpreted by authoritative commentators, to be false; for even granting that some obscure Christian sect did hold such a doctrine of the Trinity (of which statement we have yet to learn the truth), yet the spirit of Muhammad's inspiration represents it as the faith of the Christians generally. In almost every case where the Qur'an refers to the Christian faith, it is to inveigh against the idea that God has a son. See chap. ix. 31, xix. 31, xliii. 59. (Source)
Christian author and apologist Dr. Robert A. Morey noted that:

The Quran contains many errors about what Christians believe and practice.
One of the most significant is that the Quran misrepresents the Christian doctrine of the Trinity.
Muhammad mistakenly thought that Christians worshiped three gods: the Father, the Mother (Mary), and the Son (Jesus), (Sura 5:73-75,116).

The claim the Bible is corrupt is very problematic if you mean beyond the 5% scribal errors that are well know and indicated in all modern Bibles. Muhammad said to judge the Quran by what God reveled in the Bible. We know what Bible's of Muhammad's day contained. They still exist. They are 99% identical to todays Bibles. Why would Muhammad say to use a Bible that was corrupt to judge the Quran? and if it was corrupt how did those in the 8th century know what was corrupted?​

 

[FearGod]

So far you have no been able to show that in science anyway. I do however agree Christians (not Christianity) has more than enough problems.

How christians and not christianity ?

She was like most of those around Muhammad. Enslaved to some task or another. She happened to be involved with cooking.

What is your evidence that she was a slave to prophet Mohammed ?the story says she brought to him the cooked sheep as to test if he was a true prophet and you are saying she was working to the prophet as a slave.

They are you sources why do you expect them to be consistent? If two reporters go to the same game and one said that team X lost and the other said team Y won would you assume that no game took place because that is what you are trying to do here. If several sources agree on the primary claims you do not claim it did not occur even if they disagree about secondary details.

But one storry says that the prophet detected the poison and you have quoted it yourself.

Narated By Abu Huraira : When Khaibar was conquered, a roasted poisoned sheep was presented to the Prophets as a gift (by the Jews). The Prophet ordered, "Let all the Jews who have been here, be assembled before me." The Jews were collected and the Prophet said (to them), "I am going to ask you a question. Will you tell the truth?'' They said, "Yes.' The Prophet asked, "Who is your father?" They replied, "So-and-so." He said, "You have told a ie; your father is so-and-so." They said, "You are right." He siad, "Will you now tell me the truth, if I ask you about something?" They replied, "Yes, O AbuAl-Qasim; and if we should tell a lie, you can realize our lie as you have done regarding our father." On that he asked, "Who are the people of the (Hell) Fire?" They said, "We shall remain in the (Hell) Fire for a short period, and after that you will replace us." The Prophet said, "You may be cursed and humiliated in it! By Allah, we shall never replace you in it.'' Then he asked, "Will you now tell me the truth if I ask you a question?" They said, "Yes, O Ab Li-AI-Qasim." He asked, "Have you poisoned this sheep?" They said, "Yes." He asked, "What made you do so?" They said, "We wanted to know if you were a liar in which case we would get rid of you, and if you are a prophet then the poison would not harm you."

Almost all if ingested in just the right amount. Unless you are a chemists and did the autopsy I don't think this line of reasoning will help your case.

Are you serious,taking a poison for one day will lead to death of poisoning after 3 years,then how they knew that he was poisoned if it kills after 3 years from consumption.

You can say anything but show me evidences and proofs.

So we have 5 or six stories that Muhammad was poisoned but because they have details that differ (as every single testimony always does in any age of any type) you reject the whole thing and wash your hands of it. Why do you even care? Is it embarrassing or something? Other Muslims like to claim that being poisoned somehow makes him a prophet.

It is up to me if i want to believe it or not.
There are many hadiths telling that Mohammed was the messenger of God.
Do you believe those hadiths ? of course you don't believe any of them but you believe what works with your plans for bashing islam.

Almost all poisons can do this. Especially as they claim he detected the poison and only got some of it in his system. There are literally thousands of things that prolonged exposure to will eventually lead to death. A famous one is mercury, also lead, in modern times asbestos, etc.....

Prolonged exposure.

Do you want to say that the prophet was eating everyday a poisoned sheep with a specific amount of poison so it eventually lead to death after some years.:sarcastic

Do you think an ordinary person who is dying from poison as you claimed will care to speak to his people shortly before his death to warn them of the judgement day.

[youtube]i3Xc1MfX9X8[/youtube]
The Prophet Muhammad's Last Sermon - YouTube

I think your the one that claimed it to begin with but no it is not a stupid idea. If you have a group connected to the author of al nature and science and another disconnected from anything transcendent it is very logical to think those connected to God would be given a little of his infinite knowledge but you brought it up.

Not true,What about the chinese and the japanese ?
What about the jews who believed Jesus to be a son of whore ?

There is no relation between science & religion.

Don't start a contest and lose at it then declare it was stupid anyone. That does not look good.

Because till this moment you didn't get my point.
Can you plant a banana in the desert ?

Compare muslims of today under oppression and muslims in the golden age.

[youtube]hu5py5rUCQk[/youtube]
Hadith: Return of the Khilafah - YouTube

So did Rome (several times) on a far larger and more impressive scale. So did Greece several times. So did China. Muhammad created an army that almost destroyed its self before it could destroy others. It took over an almost desolate N Africa, the last vestiges of the crumbling Eastern Roman empire, then ran into some European knights in central Spain (which were the first real soldiers it faced outside Constantinople and which he outnumbered many times over) and was defeated and eventually drive out. What he did was impressive but not rare, not benevolent, and not in the top ten of histories great military leaders. Many men have done the same things only bigger, longer lasting, and over more territory.

A person who change one community from ignorance to civilization is a great person.

The point is that the golden age for muslims was due to one person and if similar person did the same for the Romans or Greeks i'll call him a great person too.

 

[1robin]

How christians and not christianity ?

What? Christians are people and people are fallible. We admit this and do not claim things that are exceeding sinful are sinless.

What is your evidence that she was a slave to prophet Mohammed ?the story says she brought to him the cooked sheep as to test if he was a true prophet and you are saying she was working to the prophet as a slave.

Who? The lady that poisoned him? I can't remember the Hadith. Ignore it if you wish I did not care one way or the other. The issue is he was poisoned not the status of who did it.

But one storry says that the prophet detected the poison and you have quoted it yourself.

How do you detect a poison in food that is not eaten?

Narated By Abu Huraira : When Khaibar was conquered, a roasted poisoned sheep was presented to the Prophets as a gift (by the Jews). The Prophet ordered, "Let all the Jews who have been here, be assembled before me." The Jews were collected and the Prophet said (to them), "I am going to ask you a question. Will you tell the truth?'' They said, "Yes.' The Prophet asked, "Who is your father?" They replied, "So-and-so." He said, "You have told a ie; your father is so-and-so." They said, "You are right." He siad, "Will you now tell me the truth, if I ask you about something?" They replied, "Yes, O AbuAl-Qasim; and if we should tell a lie, you can realize our lie as you have done regarding our father." On that he asked, "Who are the people of the (Hell) Fire?" They said, "We shall remain in the (Hell) Fire for a short period, and after that you will replace us." The Prophet said, "You may be cursed and humiliated in it! By Allah, we shall never replace you in it.'' Then he asked, "Will you now tell me the truth if I ask you a question?" They said, "Yes, O Ab Li-AI-Qasim." He asked, "Have you poisoned this sheep?" They said, "Yes." He asked, "What made you do so?" They said, "We wanted to know if you were a liar in which case we would get rid of you, and if you are a prophet then the poison would not harm you."

What kind of a test is attempting to poison a prophet? It is well documented that he had many problems from this event. Are you suggesting magically detected the poison and told Aisha a lie years later? I can't even predict what you will use as an argument. If you claim he never ate the poison then I will investigate further but I never suspected that was what you would try and suggest.

Are you serious,taking a poison for one day will lead to death of poisoning after 3 years,then how they knew that he was poisoned if it kills after 3 years from consumption.

Yes.

You can say anything but show me evidences and proofs.

Proof of what? That poisons can kill long after ingested? Are you really denying this?

It is up to me if i want to believe it or not.

It sure is but preference is a poor standard.

There are many hadiths telling that Mohammed was the messenger of God.
Do you believe those hadiths ? of course you don't believe any of them but you believe what works with your plans for bashing islam.

I do not believe because almost all the evidence is inconsistent with it. He was not even from the line of prophets to begin with. He could never demonstrate his divine source even when directly asked to (as the Biblical prophets had done). He makes constant mistakes and never displays divine knowledge. he thought he was possessed and many reliable Islamic sources give descriptions of his revelations that are an exact match in every detail for Biblical demonic possessions. Every test for a false prophet in the Bible he confirmed. The list never ends.

Prolonged exposure.

There was a boxer called bear cat William's that was shot in the stomach. he died years later from lead poisoning. I knew a lady that had micrograms of mercury in her system from childhood that killed here decades later. What are you denying? This is common knowledge.

Do you want to say that the prophet was eating everyday a poisoned sheep with a specific amount of poison so it eventually lead to death after some years.:sarcastic

What I want has nothing to do with anything.

Do you think an ordinary person who is dying from poison as you claimed will care to speak to his people shortly before his death to warn them of the judgement day.

Why not? I thought his last speech was on women's rights? How many last speeches did he make. Satan comes as an angel of light.

[youtube]i3Xc1MfX9X8[/youtube]
The Prophet Muhammad's Last Sermon - YouTube

Can't watch utube.

Not true,What about the chinese and the japanese ?

What about them?

What about the jews who believed Jesus to be a son of whore ?

There are very few that do think this. I never claimed Godly people were always right nor ungodly people always wrong.

There is no relation between science & religion.

Then why did you bring it up? Yes there is and all modern Muslim debaters claim so.

Because till this moment you didn't get my point.
Can you plant a banana in the desert ?

Yes.

Compare muslims of today under oppression and muslims in the golden age.

They were never impressive but have gotten far worse.

[youtube]hu5py5rUCQk[/youtube]
Hadith: Return of the Khilafah - YouTube

Can't watch this.

A person who change one community from ignorance to civilization is a great person.

But not a prophet nor from God as many men have done this. Jesus did not make stupid people smart he made dead people live.

The point is that the golden age for muslims was due to one person and if similar person did the same for the Romans or Greeks i'll call him a great person too.

I do not agree but even if he was great that is not evidence for prophet hood nor even being a good person. The greatest military force of it's time in history was Sparta. They conquered everything they saw. They were also diabolical and a maniacal bunch of genocidal maniacs. Hitler led a defeated and impoverished Germany from misery into the greatest force in Europe and Asia. His scientists were geniuses. Stalin who killed 20 million had one of the greatest technological programs in history. We are the most powerful nation in history and yet morally rotten at our core and getting worse. Israel was a backwater province of the Roman empire yet produced the most influential person in human history. It currently whips every Islamic army or all of them at once that attacks it, even outnumbered 40 to one. Great and from God are two different things.

 

[MeLtiZBleaCh]

The splitting of the moon (Arabic: انشقاق القمر&#8206 was a miracle attributed to the prophet Muhammad, derived from the Qur'anic verse 54:1-2

"The hour drew nigh and the moon did rend asunder. And if they see a miracle they turn aside and say: Transient magic."

Traditions transmitted on the authority of Ibn Abbas briefly mention the incident and do not provide much details. Traditions transmitted on the authority of Abdullah bin Masud describe the incident as follows:

"We were along with God's Messenger at Mina, that moon was split up into two. One of its parts was behind the mountain and the other one was on this side of the mountain. God's Messenger said to us: Bear witness to this"

 

[FearGod]

The splitting of the moon (Arabic: انشقاق القمر&#8206 was a miracle attributed to the prophet Muhammad, derived from the Qur'anic verse 54:1-2

"The hour drew nigh and the moon did rend asunder. And if they see a miracle they turn aside and say: Transient magic."

Traditions transmitted on the authority of Ibn Abbas briefly mention the incident and do not provide much details. Traditions transmitted on the authority of Abdullah bin Masud describe the incident as follows:

"We were along with God's Messenger at Mina, that moon was split up into two. One of its parts was behind the mountain and the other one was on this side of the mountain. God's Messenger said to us: Bear witness to this"

1robin doesn't believe the hadith which is in the favor of the prophet in other words he is biased in picking up which hadith to accept so i don't trust his arguement because it is always biased.

The hadith confirms that the prophet did a miracle by God's power and there are many hadiths that confirm the same,but the hadith which he accept is which says that Aisha was a child when she was married and the prophet was killed by a jewish woman and she was working as a slave to the prophet..etc

 

[1robin]

The splitting of the moon (Arabic: انشقاق القمر&#8206 was a miracle attributed to the prophet Muhammad, derived from the Qur'anic verse 54:1-2

"The hour drew nigh and the moon did rend asunder. And if they see a miracle they turn aside and say: Transient magic."

Traditions transmitted on the authority of Ibn Abbas briefly mention the incident and do not provide much details. Traditions transmitted on the authority of Abdullah bin Masud describe the incident as follows:

"We were along with God's Messenger at Mina, that moon was split up into two. One of its parts was behind the mountain and the other one was on this side of the mountain. God's Messenger said to us: Bear witness to this"

This is the worst claim in Islam. Astrologers all over the world recorded what happened that night. Not one account recorded this massive event. There is no known evidence from our trips to the moon except a well known doctored photograph some dishonest Muslims created. There is no evidence the moon ever experienced anything of this type in billions of years. Why would Allah split the moon when, no one cared, leave no evidence, and no one noticed outside a few very ignorant Muslims? Miracles do not always have proof but this one goes in spite of every scrap of evidence in existence. Most Muslim apologists do not defend this ridiculous claim. They instead try to explain it away as only an appearance. The moon was split by a mountain and only appeared to very ignorant me to be actually split apart. I believe hadiths when they are consistent with evidence and each other. This story is neither.

 

[1robin]

1robin doesn't believe the hadith which is in the favor of the prophet in other words he is biased in picking up which hadith to accept so i don't trust his arguement because it is always biased.

See the above for the epitome of hypocrisy and bias. I go by evidence and consistency. You apparently go by preference. Who is bias?

The hadith confirms that the prophet did a miracle by God's power and there are many hadiths that confirm the same,but the hadith which he accept is which says that Aisha was a child when she was married and the prophet was killed by a jewish woman and she was working as a slave to the prophet..etc

That Hadith records her own words and it is not the only one and I have provided several. I have instead of being as biased as you obviously are, even posted that I would not use Aisha's age (in huge bolded font) only because the case is not conclusive but the best evidence is that she was very young. So much for MY bias. AGAIN. I do not care whether she was a slave. Probability makes it almost certain but I do not care. Most Muslim sources suggest he was in fact poisoned and even his words confirm that. Who was biased again?

 

[FearGod]

This is the worst claim in Islam. Astrologers all over the world recorded what happened that night. Not one account recorded this massive event. There is no known evidence from our trips to the moon except a well known doctored photograph some dishonest Muslims created. There is no evidence the moon ever experienced anything of this type in billions of years. Why would Allah split the moon when, no one cared, leave no evidence, and no one noticed outside a few very ignorant Muslims? Miracles do not always have proof but this one goes in spite of every scrap of evidence in existence. Most Muslim apologists do not defend this ridiculous claim. They instead try to explain it away as only an appearance. The moon was split by a mountain and only appeared to very ignorant me to be actually split apart. I believe hadiths when they are consistent with evidence and each other. This story is neither.

Astrologers of the middle ages didn't record the event. :biglaugh:

Many have witnessed the event according to the hadith,but you don't believe it but believe the other hadith that goes with your mood in bashing Islam.

God won't care if you'll find an evidence in the moon.

Do you think it is hard for God to re-connect the moon without leaving any evidence of splitting.

The prophet was concerned that his people will observe the event and not the Japanese or the west europeans ... in their dark ages and their famous astrologers at those times.

Do you have any evidence that Jesus did the miracles such as walking on water,so why you have to believe it,because of your blind faith,why you believe that Jesus was born without a sperm,what evidence you have ? blind faith.

Your excuse for not believing the hadith that God should left a sign that the moon was splitted.

Why God should care,God if wanted then he can shout in every ones ear that Jesus is his son and we should worship him for the salvation.

And if We had so willed, We could have given every soul its guidance, but the word from Me concerning evildoers took effect: that I will fill hell with the jinn and mankind together. (32:13)