Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God??

[katiemygirl]

the sabbath is a mosaic law. It doesnt apply to christians in the way it applied to Israel.

The Sabbath became the 'rest day' that christians were told to 'enter into' when speaking of the Sabbath, Paul says:
Hebrews 4:
3 For we who have exercised faith do enter into the rest, just as he has said: “So I swore in my anger, ‘They will not enter into my rest,’”+ although his works were finished from the founding of the world.+4 For in one place he has said of the seventh day as follows: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works,”+5 and here again he says: “They will not enter into my rest.”+
6 Therefore, since it remains for some to enter into it, and those to whom the good news was first declared did not enter in because of disobedience,+ 7 he again marks off a certain day by saying long afterward in David’s psalm, “Today”; just as it has been said above, “Today if you listen to his voice, do not harden your hearts.”+ 8 For if Joshua+ had led them into a place of rest, God would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 So there remains a sabbath-rest for the people of God.+ 10 For the man who has entered into God’s rest has also rested from his own works, just as God did from his own.

Entering into Gods Rest, or his Sabbath, requires that Christians devote themselves to doing Gods Will. We enter the sabbath when we become his servants and use our lives to do his Will. Thats why we dont need to observe a weekly sabbath....every day is a sabbath to a Christian.

I agree with you here Pegg.

 

[Pegg]

I would tell them they are absolutely correct!

didnt' you just say "I tell them that we are all sinners and that Jesus fulfilled God’s prophetic plan to forgive and save us"

Im confused

 

[katiemygirl]

didnt' you just say "I tell them that we are all sinners and that Jesus fulfilled God’s prophetic plan to forgive and save us"

Im confused

We are sinners, but we don't inherit sin. That's what the RC's and Calvinists teach. It's not what the Bible teaches.

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him." Ez. 18:20

We are created in God's image.

 

[Pegg]

We are sinners, but we don't inherit sin. That's what the RC's and Calvinists teach. It's not what the Bible teaches.

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him." Ez. 18:20

We are created in God's image.

I agree that God does not hold us accountable for the sins of our parents. Each one will render an account for 'himself' to God says the bible.
But what we do inherit from our parents are traits. And if they have bad traits (as they all do) then we also inherit those bad traits....just as we can inherit physical traits from them, we also inherit mental traits.

And this is what Paul is talking about in Romans 5:12 "That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin,+ and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned"

This doesnt mean that God condemns the child because of the parents sins. It just means that our inborn traits are sinful because they are out of harmony with the standards of God. I agree we are created in Gods image.... but do you think all of our behavior reflects that image?

 

[katiemygirl]

I agree that God does not hold us accountable for the sins of our parents. Each one will render an account for 'himself' to God says the bible.
But what we do inherit from our parents are traits. And if they have bad traits (as they all do) then we also inherit those bad traits....just as we can inherit physical traits from them, we also inherit mental traits.

And this is what Paul is talking about in Romans 5:12 "That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin,+ and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned"

This doesnt mean that God condemns the child because of the parents sins. It just means that our inborn traits are sinful because they are the opposite of the standards of God. I agree we are created in Gods image.... but do you think all of our behavior reflects that image?

Inheriting sin and inheriting human nature (which is sinful) are two different things. Babies are innocent! It is not until they learn right from wrong that they sin. If a little child dies, they certainly will not be held accountable for Adam's or anyone else's sins.

Adam and Eve had to first learn that eating from the tree was wrong. If they hadn't known, it wouldn't have been sin.

Yes, I believe little children reflect God's image, but at the same time, we see their human nature emerging. It doesn't take them long to learn to manipulate. But they don't have a sense of wrongdoing at that point.

 

[Pegg]

Inheriting sin and inheriting human nature (which is sinful) are two different things. Babies are innocent! It is not until they learn right from wrong that they sin. If a little child dies, they,certainly will not be held accountable for Adam's or anyone else's sins.

no of course not. None of us are held accountable for Adams sin. You are not accountable for your parents sin and I am not accountable for my childrens sin.

But consider, you said that we are created in Gods image. So if we are 'created' in his image, then our human nature should relfect that image, correct? Yes or no??

 

[katiemygirl]

no of course not. None of us are held accountable for Adams sin. You are not accountable for your parents sin and I am not accountable for my childrens sin.

But consider, you said that we are created in Gods image. So if we are 'created' in his image, then our human nature should relfect that image, correct? Yes or no??

I have to accept what God's word says.

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.Gen1:27

Yes, our nature should reflect God's image, but because of A&E's sin, we also have a human nature that wants to sin.

 

[james2ko]

the sabbath is a mosaic law. It doesnt apply to christians in the way it applied to Israel.

1. Apparently Christ didn't think so. He prophesied His disciples will be keeping it today:

Mat 24:20 And pray that your flight will not be in winter or on the Sabbath.
​

Throughout His dialogue with the Pharisees, Christ never objected to them keeping the sabbath. His objection was aimed at "how" the Pharisees were keeping it. Christians should not keep it in the same burdensome manner as the Pharisees. Nevertheless, it should be kept.

​

The Sabbath became the 'rest day' that christians were told to 'enter into' when speaking of the Sabbath, Paul says: Hebrews 4:3 For we who have exercised faith do enter into the rest,[katapauo-G2664] just as he has said: “So I swore in my anger, ‘They will not enter into my rest,’”+ although his works were finished from the founding of the world.+4 For in one place he has said of the seventh day as follows: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works,”+5 and here again he says: “They will not enter into my rest.”+ 6 Therefore, since it remains for some to enter into it, and those to whom the good news was first declared did not enter in because of disobedience,+ 7 he again marks off a certain day by saying long afterward in David’s psalm, “Today”; just as it has been said above, “Today if you listen to his voice, do not harden your hearts.”+ 8 For if Joshua+ had led them into a place of rest, God would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 So there remains a sabbath-rest [sabbatismos-G4520] for the people of God.+ 10 For the man who has entered into God’s rest has also rested from his own works, just as God did from his own.

2. Look at the Greek terms for "rest" (red bold). There are two different Greek words, with different meanings. Yet just about every version translates them the same, which is misleading. The term in verse three is assumed to have the same definition as the one in verse nine. The term used in verse three simply means putting to rest. The Greek word used in verse nine is sabbatismos. It means “Sabbath rest, Sabbath observance” (Arndt and Gingrich, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament) A keeping of the sabbath (Thayers Lexicon). This definition is confirmed by other historical works: “The words ‘sabbath rest’ are from the [Greek] noun sabbatismos, [which is] a unique word in the NT.

This term appears also in Plutarch (Superset. 3 [Moralia 166a]) for sabbath observance or keeping, and in four post-canonical Christian writings which are not dependent on Heb. 4:9” (The Anchor Bible Dictionary, Vol. 5, p. 856). This is historical evidence that Christians continued observing the seventh-day Sabbath long after Emperor Constantine declared in 325 AD that Sunday was the “Christian” day of worship. This use is also confirmed by the Septuagint.

In other words, Paul admonishes Christians to do the opposite of how the verse has been interpreted by many for millennia---there remains a "keeping of the sabbath" or sabbath-keeping for the people of God!

Paul's admonition is corroborated by Christ's statement in the olivet prophecy in point 1 above. The obvious implication is that His followers in the end time--today--should and would still be keeping the seventh day Sabbath (sabbatismos). All of the Pauline verses that seem contrary to this have been taken out of context and misinterpreted.

We've been over this, Pegg, several times and you seem to either bow out, repeat or reword what was refuted, and/or try to change the subject.

 

[Mountain_Climber]

The Jehovah's Witnesses do not make themselves equal to Jeremiah in the same sense that Jeremiah is a prophet. They DO make themselves equal to God whenever they say that leaving the Jehovah's Witnesses is the same as leaving Jehovah. THE SAME

In the sense that they are applying to the great crowd the idea of leaving away from the calling to the anointing of the Lord?

You may be right.

Perhaps that is a stretching of what was meant at 1 John 2:19

 

[Mountain_Climber]

I agree it is a conscience matter. I dont view it as an act of cannibalism to have a transplant. The only organ transplant we are directly forbidden is blood.... blood itself is an organ. Im also pretty sure that the WT have stated that organ transplant is a conscience matter.

That idea strikes a sadness in me, for, years ago I had a dear friend who was dying of a failing heart and when he asked my opinion about accepting a transplant, I told him the same thing I said here in this forum.

He was not even thirty years old yet and the fact is that his heart was failing so fast he would have had little time to wait on the transplant list.

He died without me knowing whether he had refused a transplant due to my shared opinion or if it was just a case of his heart failing too quickly to be able to get a transplant.

But that has left me feeling bad for having been honest with him about my opinion.

 

[JFish123]

Agreed!
I can't believe that 2,000 years have passed and people are still trying to defend the false trinity doctrine.

Not defend. Show it's truth WITH scripture and a lot of it. Unlike Watchtower theology which has very little support in scripture context. Really can't defend the Truth of scripture especially when it's right before your eyes like the hundred of verses which shows the Truth I'm afraid.

 

[Mountain_Climber]

I agree that God does not hold us accountable for the sins of our parents. Each one will render an account for 'himself' to God says the bible.
But what we do inherit from our parents are traits. And if they have bad traits (as they all do) then we also inherit those bad traits....just as we can inherit physical traits from them, we also inherit mental traits.

And this is what Paul is talking about in Romans 5:12 "That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin,+ and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned"

This doesnt mean that God condemns the child because of the parents sins. It just means that our inborn traits are sinful because they are out of harmony with the standards of God. I agree we are created in Gods image.... but do you think all of our behavior reflects that image?

So you believe that, "sin enter[ing] into the world and death through sin", shows it entered the world genetically?

Why could it not have been just as we are told?
Deuteronomy 4:9 Only take heed to thyself, and keep thy soul diligently, lest thou forget the things which thine eyes have seen, and lest they depart from thy heart all the days of thy life: but teach them thy sons, and thy sons' sons;

Isaiah 43:27 Thy first father hath sinned, and thy teachers have transgressed against me.

Leviticus 4:27 And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty;

1 Peter 1:14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

Why do you side-step the importance of that with your "inherited sin" fallacy, which is a phrase no where found in the Bible?

Is it more important to you to be seen as right than it is to be correct in what you understand?

 

[katiemygirl]

Not defend. Show it's truth WITH scripture and a lot of it. Unlike Watchtower theology which has very little support in scripture context. Really can't defend the Truth of scripture especially when it's right before your eyes like the hundred of verses which shows the Truth I'm afraid.

One must do a lot of twisting and inserting words into the Scriptures to make Jesus a god.

A natural reading of God's word, without outside influence, repeatedly shows Jesus was God in the flesh.

 

[katiemygirl]

So you believe that, "sin enter[ing] into the world and death through sin", shows it entered the world genetically?

Why could it not have been just as we are told?
Deuteronomy 4:9 Only take heed to thyself, and keep thy soul diligently, lest thou forget the things which thine eyes have seen, and lest they depart from thy heart all the days of thy life: but teach them thy sons, and thy sons' sons;

Isaiah 43:27 Thy first father hath sinned, and thy teachers have transgressed against me.

Leviticus 4:27 And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty;

1 Peter 1:14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

Why do you side-step the importance of that with your "inherited sin" fallacy, which is a phrase no where found in the Bible?

Is it more important to you to be seen as right than it is to be correct in you understanding?

I think if you read all of Pegg's posts to me on this topic, you will find that she pretty much walked back her original stance on inherited sin. She agreed with me that babies do not inherit Adam's sin. It is the soul, which sins that dies. Ez. 18:20

 

[Mountain_Climber]

One must do a lot of twisting and inserting words into the Scriptures to make Jesus a god.

A natural reading of God's word, without outside influence, repeatedly shows Jesus was God in the flesh.

What is an image?

You were meant to image God in the flesh, too.

All that Jesus the man was, we can also be.

 

[katiemygirl]

What is an image?

You wee meant to image God in the flesh, too.

I'm confused by your question and comment. What is the context of your question?

 

[JFish123]

Understanding the Cult of Jehovahs Witnesses by Dr. James White

Did you know that a million JW's left the Watchtower organization after the failed 1975 prediction? Interesting.

 

[Mountain_Climber]

I'm confused by your question and comment. What is the context of your question?

Jesus entered the world to teach us to be the living, walking, breathing light of God in our own lives.

Of course Jesus was seen as God in the flesh. That is what a faithful image does.

He did not come to show us what we cannot be, but what we can be.

 

[Mountain_Climber]

Understanding the Cult of Jehovahs Witnesses by Dr. James White

Did you know that a million JW's left the Watchtower organization after the failed 1975 prediction? Interesting.

And so what if they are also being sifted just as the rest of us?

That proves nothing but perhaps that they have not completely understood what is happening to them.

 

[JFish123]

And so what if they are also being sifted just as the rest of us?

That proves nothing but perhaps that they have not completely understood what is happening to them.

Maybe they got the hint that following anyone who says there the sole channel for God and make such a false prophecy isn't who they claim to be. A million thought wisely