Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God??

[Pegg]

I already answered both in both previous messages. I can't help you see it. I'm sorry.

Yep, thats quite alright. I'll leave you to debate the trinity with others if they can be bothered

 

[JFish123]

Jehovah's Witnesses
Various False Prophecies of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society
by James White
1972 “So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come? These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet?...This ‘prophet’ was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as the International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah’s Christian witnesses.” (Watchtower, April 1, 1972, p. 197)

1880 “As the beginning of that change was marked by the coming of Christ from heaven, so the 2300 years above mentioned indicated that Christ was due to leave the most holy place - ‘heaven itself’ - in 1844.” (Watchtower 7/1880 p. 3, Reprints p. 115)

1881 January: “Matt. xxv and the parallelism of the Jewish and Gospel ages, seem to teach that the wise of the virgins ‘who are alive and remain’ must all come in, to a knowledge of the Bridegroom’s presences, by the fall of 1881, when the door - opportunity to become a member of the bride - will close.” (January 1881 Watchtower, p. 4)
February: “And now we come nearer to the time when our change seems due (we know not the day or hour, but expect it during 1881, possibly near the autumn when the parallels show the favor to Zion complete and due to end, the door the marriage shut and high calling to be the bride of Christ, to cease) and light on the subject is becoming clearer...” (Watchtower, February, 18814, p. 5) Note: the closer they came to October 1881 the less definite the Watchtower became regarding the “change.”
July/August: “We look to October of this year, as the limit of favor - the end of ‘the acceptable year (time or age) of the Lord’ - the closing of the ‘straight gate’ to the ‘narrow way’ of the opportunity to become a member of the bride of Christ and partaker of his Divine Nature.” (July/August Watchtower, 1881, p. 6)

1889 “In this volume we offer a chain of testimony on the subject of God’s appointed times and seasons, each link of which we consider Scripturally strong...it is beyond the breadth and depth of human thought, and therefore cannot be of human origin. (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, 1889, p. 15)

1892 “The date of the close of that ‘battle’ is definitely marked in the Scripture as October, 1914. It is already in progress, its beginning dating from October 1874.” (Watchtower Reprints, January 15, 1892, p. 1355)

1897 “Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874 A.D., according to the testimony of the prophets, to those who have ears to hear it.” (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 4, 1897, pl. 621)

1914 “The war will proceed and will eventuate in no glorious victory for any nation, but in the horrible mutilation and impoverishment of all. Next will follow the Armageddon of anarchy.” (The New York Times, October 5, 1914, p. 8)

1916 “In the meantime, eyes of understanding should discern clearly the Battle of the Great Day of God Almighty now in progress; and our faith, guiding our eyes of understanding through the Word,, should enable us to see the glorious outcome - Messiah’s Kingdom.” (Watchtower Reprints, September 1, 1916, p. 5951)

1917 “The data presented in the comments on Revelation 2:1 prove that the conquest of Judea was not completed until the day of Passover, A.D. 73, and in the light of the foregoing Scriptures, prove that the Sprint of 1918 will bring upon Christendom a spasm of anguish greater even than that experienced in the Fall of 1914.” (The Finished Mystery, p. 62(1918 ed.) (some later editions have changed the dates for obvious reasons) “Also, in the year 1918, when God destroys the churches wholesale and the church members by millions, it shall be that any that escape shall come to the works of Pastor Russell to learn the meaning of the downfall of ‘Christianity’” (p. 485)

1920 “Even the republics will disappear in 1920...The three days in which Pharaoh’s host pursued the Israelites into the wilderness represent the three years from 1917 to 1920 at which time all of Pharaoh’s messengers will be swallowed up by the sea of anarchy. The wheels will come off their chariots - organization.” (The Finished Mystery, 1918 ed., p, 258)

1920 “As we have heretofore stated, the great jubilee cycle is due to begin in 1925. At the time the earthly phase of the kingdom shall be recognized...Therefore we may confidently expect that the 1925 will mark the return of Abraham...” (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 1920, p. 89)

1922 “The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures because it is fixed by the law God gave to Israel. Viewing the present situation in Europe, one wonders how it will be possible to hold back the explosion much longer; and that even before 1925 the great crisis will be reached and probably passed.” (Watchtower September 1, 1922, p. 262)

1925 January: “The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during the year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time God will accomplish his purposes concerning his own people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire during this year that they would fail to joyfully do what the Lord would have them do.” (Watchtower, January 1, 1925, p. 3)

September: “It is to be expected that Satan will try to inject into the minds of the consecrated the thought that 1925 should see an end of the work, and that therefore it would be needless for them to do more.” (Watchtower, September 1, 1925)

1940 “The year 1940 is certain to be the most important year yet, because Armageddon is very near. It behooves all who love righteousness to put forth every effort to advertise THE THEOCRACY while the privileges are still open.” (Informant, May 1940, p. 1) September: “The Kingdom is here, the King is enthroned. Armageddon is just ahead. The glorious reign of Christ that shall bring blessings to the world will immediately follow. Therefore the great climax has been reached. Tribulation has fallen upon those who stand by the Lord.” (The Messenger, September 1940, p. 6)

1941 “Meantime the German people are awakening to their horrible predicament. They no longer laugh as decent men and women were made to laugh, but their faces are white, pinched and filled with forebodings of what the near future will bring and is already hastening to bring to them - Armageddon, the battle of the great day of God Almighty.” (Consolation, October 29, 1941, p. 11)

1968 “Just think, brothers, there are only about 90 months left before the 6000 years of man’s existence on earth is completed...The majority of people living today will probably be alive when Armageddon breaks out.” (Kingdom Ministry, 3/68, p. 4)

1974 “Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in the old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world’s end.” (Kingdom Ministry, May 1974, p. 3)

As the preceding conclusively proves, the Watchtower should have been speaking of itself when it said: “True, there have been those in times past who predicted an ‘end to the world,’ even announcing a specific date. Some have gathered groups of people with them and fled to the hills or withdrawn into their houses waiting for the end. Yet, nothing happened...Why? What was missing?...Missing from such people were God’s truths and the evidence that he was guiding and using them.” (Awake! October 8, 1968, p. 23)

Does any one claiming to be Gods only channel get this much horribly wrong? That's why millions have left the Watchtower Society. Those who had eyes to see and ears to hear, saw and heard the truth about the Watchtower Society.

 

[JFish123]

The Trinity is one God existing in three Persons. Understand that this is not in any way suggesting three Gods. Keep in mind when studying this subject that the word “Trinity” is not found in Scripture (though neither is The word Jehovah) This is a term that is used to describe the triune God—three coexistent, co-eternal Persons who make up God. Of real importance is that the concept represented by the word “Trinity” DOES exist in Scripture. The following is what God’s Word says about the Trinity:

1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5).

2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word "Elohim" and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for "God," "Elohim," definitely allows for the Trinity.

In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus' baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct Persons in the Trinity.

3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another Person in the Trinity—the Father.

4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).

5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.

6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus' human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.

The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.

The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Mountain_Climber]

He was God in the flesh. Only God, Himself, could accomplish what was done on the cross for us, forgiveness of sins. Even the Jews understood that. That's why they accused Him of blasphemy.

You don't know what you are talking about, especially when you throw out unsubstantiated claims, like, "Even the Jews understood that."

Your presupposition that, quote, "Only God, Himself, could accomplish what was done on the cross for us, forgiveness of sins", is a statement you don't even understand. You toss it out there just to put up a wall against reasoning further on the subject.

I suspect that you are taking the statement made by certain of the Jews that only God can forgive sins. Well, you are twisting that to apply to the cross when that statement has nothing to do with the cross. To the mind of we Jews it is a simple fact that when one transgresses they transgress against God and therefore it is up to God whether or not anyone shall be forgiven. That statement has nothing to do with how God goes about the action of forgiving, simply that God has the only legitimate say in the matter.

I say this to you out of love for you. It would be wise of you to learn to self check what you say as to whether it has any real concrete value or is just an effort to have something to say.

 

[Mountain_Climber]

I have to accept what God's word says.

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.Gen1:27

Yes, our nature should reflect God's image, but because of A&E's sin, we also have a human nature that wants to sin.

Thats right. And that is why the scriptures tell us that we are 'conceived in sin'

Psalm 51:5 Look! I was born guilty of error, And my mother conceived me in sin.

No parent who sins can bring forth a perfect sinless child. Sin is more then what we do...its also how we are programmed in the womb. Babies have been known to be taught while still inside the womb. They hear what goes on and show that they recognise the voices of their parents and other relatives. A mother who suffers with anxiety can pass her anxiety onto her baby... mankind is being duplicated through the process of dna...children become copies of their parents and that includes their sinful tendencies.

So if we consider all that, then we can understand why a child is still sinful regardless of whether they have deliberately committed sin or not. Its only a matter of time before they begin to exhibit the sinful traits of their parents. They can't avoid it.

Isnt this the reason why we need Christs sin atoning sacrifice? Through him we will eventually have all sinful traits removed. But a person who does not believe they have sinful traits are not likely to respond to the message of repentance.

Pegg, you really ought to feel hate toward butchery of the scriptures such as your quote of Psalms 51:5 is there in your comment.

But if all you care about is finding evidence to support your belief then I guess it does not matter to you how the scriptures you quote from have been adulterated.

Katiemygirl made a good post there, which you half way acknowledged. I say half way in that you have not really acknowledged it except to place your own twist upon what she said.

If you are not afraid to reason on things, then please take a minute and do so. Whether she understands this or not, she said, quote, "Yes, our nature should reflect God's image, but because of A&E's sin, we also have a human nature that wants to sin."

Now let us reason that through.

If it were true that we are born with a nature that desires to sin, then Jesus' words would lack meaning, when he told the Scribes and Pharisees, " Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." John 8:44

Think about that. If it were true that all men are born desiring to do the will of the devil, then Jesus' comment to those Scribes and Pharisees would have no significance. Obviously men are born neither desiring to do good or to do bad until they form a particular nature into themselves by what they proceed to learn.

Now, you will likely wish to throw up a blocker to your reasoning at this point, telling yourself that it can be clearly seen that some newborns are evident in their being prone to sin. And you judge that by how cranky the newborn is when the fact is that many things can and do cause that crankiness unrelated to this imaginary tendency toward sin.

In the mother's womb that child was shaped amidst things that might well cause it to not feel as well as it might have otherwise felt. And a newborn's crankiness is simply the only way that newborn is able to communicate it's needs so that it might receive care for those needs. It is shameful to brand that as sin.

Your theory of inherited sin loses in so many ways it is impossible for you to defend it but by distorting scriptures and closing your mind to investigating the matter the rest of the way.

If you would like to debate the proper translation of Psalms 51:5 you have met you match in me. And I am telling you flat out that it does not say what you claim.

Can you find so-called scholarly translators that will defend your view? Sure, every false doctrine can.

 

[Mountain_Climber]

Job 14:4 Who can produce someone clean from someone unclean?+ No one can!

This is another case where you distort the scriptures to serve your own selfish purpose.

The only thing Job meant was that those who are unclean are unclean because they lack the tools to be clean. And if they lack the tools to be clean they cannot then pass those tools onto their offspring.

What are those tools for being and staying clean, Pegg?

Turn the brain on. The scriptures plainly educate us about those tools. Have you really payed attention to what your Bible teaches?

 

[katiemygirl]

Sin is more then what we do...its also how we are programmed in the womb. Babies have been known to be taught while still inside the womb. They hear what goes on and show that they recognise the voices of their parents and other relatives. A mother who suffers with anxiety can pass her anxiety onto her baby... mankind is being duplicated through the process of dna...children become copies of their parents and that includes their sinful tendencies.

So if we consider all that, then we can understand why a child is still sinful regardless of whether they have deliberately committed sin or not. Its only a matter of time before they begin to exhibit the sinful traits of their parents. They can't avoid it.

Isnt this the reason why we need Christs sin atoning sacrifice? Through him we will eventually have all sinful traits removed. But a person who does not believe they have sinful traits are not likely to respond to the message of repentance.

Wrong! Sin and having a fleshly nature are two different thing. Stealing and having a propensity toward stealing are not the same thing. Sin separates us from God (Isaiah 59:1-2); Our human nature, on its own, does not separate us from God!

A baby is not capable of knowing the difference between good and evil.

Isaiah 7:15-16
He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, for before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste.

"Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it." Deuteronomy 1:39

"Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good. For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings." Isaiah 7:15-16

These verses prove that babies are born innocent. They do not yet know to refuse the evil, and choose the good. Until they know right from wrong, their actions have no moral character, they can do neither good nor evil, and they are innocent before God.

To say differently is to contradict God's word.

 

[katiemygirl]

You don't know what you are talking about, especially when you throw out unsubstantiated claims, like, "Even the Jews understood that."

Your presupposition that, quote, "Only God, Himself, could accomplish what was done on the cross for us, forgiveness of sins", is a statement you don't even understand. You toss it out there just to put up a wall against reasoning further on the subject.

I suspect that you are taking the statement made by certain of the Jews that only God can forgive sins. Well, you are twisting that to apply to the cross when that statement has nothing to do with the cross. To the mind of we Jews it is a simple fact that when one transgresses they transgress against God and therefore it is up to God whether or not anyone shall be forgiven. That statement has nothing to do with how God goes about the action of forgiving, simply that God has the only legitimate say in the matter.

I say this to you out of love for you. It would be wise of you to learn to self check what you say as to whether it has any real concrete value or is just an effort to have something to say.

Since the beginning, christians have believed that Jesus is God, except for a very tiny minority. Not only do the Greek manuscripts say that the Word was God, all Bible translations say the Word was God, except for the NWT.

Nearly all of the early church fathers believed taught and wrote that Jesus is God, with the exception of Arius and a few others.

To the mind of we Jews it is a simple fact that when one transgresses they transgress against God and therefore it is up to God whether or not anyone shall be forgiven.

Thank you for finally letting me know your religious stance. It helps me to better understand your posts. As a Jew, I would expect you to not believe Jesus is God, but pray you will at some point in your life change your mind.

 

[Mountain_Climber]

Since the beginning, christians have believed that Jesus is God, except for a very tiny minority. Not only do the Greek manuscripts say that the Word was God, all Bible translations say the Word was God, except for the NWT.

Nearly all of the early church fathers believed taught and wrote that Jesus is God, with the exception of Arius and a few others.



Thank you for finally letting me know your religious stance. It helps me to better understand your posts. As a Jew, I would expect you to not believe Jesus is God, but pray you will at some point in your life change your mind.

Arius was one who stood up and resisted the apostasy. He was right and the spiritual fornicators with Rome were wrong.

 

[JFish123]

Arius was one who stood up and resisted the apostasy. He was right and the spiritual fornicators with Rome were wrong.

You know it's funny. The early church of the Apostles and Paul fought constantly against apostasy where people thought Jesus was just God and not man so they kept trying to convince them that he was also a man. Now we have atheists, Jehovahs Witnesses and the like who go the other way and say He wasn't God. Full circle I guess.

 

[JFish123]

This has a short cartoon of what JW actually believe. I gotta be honest. It scared me how many errors there are in such a departure from the Word of God.

 

[Nada]

This has a short cartoon of what JW actually believe. I gotta be honest. It scared me how many errors there are in such a departure from the Word of God.

That was awesome! I love the old school animation.It reminded me of the Super Friends in the 70's and 80's.The music was funny.Lol...Thanks for sharing.

 

[katiemygirl]

Arius was one who stood up and resisted the apostasy. He was right and the spiritual fornicators with Rome were wrong.

Do you even believe Jesus is the Son of God?

 

[JFish123]

Yep, thats quite alright. I'll leave you to debate the trinity with others if they can be bothered

Five Stumpers for any Jehovahs Witness...
1. Is the Watch Tower Society Reliable?
In 1910 Russell wrote, "If anyone lays the Scripture Studies [short for a 7-volume WTS publication entitled Studies in the Scriptures, hereafter abbreviated as Studies] aside, even after he has used them, after he has become familiar with them, after he has read them for ten years—if he lays them aside and ignores them and goes to the Bible alone, though he has understood the Bible for ten years, our experience shows that within two years he goes into darkness. On the other hand, if he had merely read the Scripture Studies with their references and had not read a page of the Bible, as such, he will be in the light at the end of two years . . . " (WT Reprints, 9-15-1910, 4685). The WTS maintains that it is God’s reliable mouthpiece to the nations, and it claims to be God’s inspired prophet (WT, 4-1-1972, 197)—and yet its prophecies have repeatedly proven to be false. The only conclusion to be drawn is that the WTS is to be rejected as a false prophet.
Besides false prophesies, the WTS has misled its members through countless changes in doctrine and practice:
"To worship Christ in any form cannot be wrong ... " (WT, 3-1880, 83). "It is unscriptural for worshippers of the living and true God to render worship to the Son of God, Jesus Christ" (WT, 11-1-1964, 671).
2. Can You Trust the New World Translation?
The New World Translation (NWT), the JWs’ own Bible version, was created between 1950-61 in several parts, beginning with New Testament (NT). The translation was made by an "anonymous" committee, which transliterated and altered passages that were problematic for earlier JWs. Nathan Knorr, Fred Franz, Albert Schroeder, George Gangas, and Milton Henschel were later identified as the men that created the text, which is used by no other sect. Franz studied non-biblical Greek for two years, and taught himself Hebrew. The rest had no formal training in any biblical language. The text of the NWT is more of a transliteration to fit theological presumptions than it is a true translation. This can be seen in key verses that the WTS changed in order to fit its doctrines.
3. Is "Jehovah" God’s Name?
In Reasoning From the Scriptures the WTS teaches that "Jehovah" is the proper pronunciation of God’s name, and so "Everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved" (Rom. 10:13). They continue, "Many scholars favor the spelling ‘Yahweh,’ but it is uncertain and there is not agreement among them. On the other hand, ‘Jehovah’ is the form of the name that is most readily recognized, because it has been used in English for centuries . . . " (p. 195).
However, the JWs’ own Aid to Bible Understanding says, "The first recorded use of this form [Jehovah] dates from the 13th century C.E. [after Christ]. Raymundus Martini, a Spanish monk of the Dominican order, used it in his book Pugeo Fidei of the year 1270. Hebrew scholars generally favor ‘Yahweh’ as the most likely pronunciation" (pp. 884-885).
New Testament Greek always uses the word "Lord," and never "Jehovah," even in quotes from the Old Testament (OT). Encyclopedia Judaica, Webster’s Encyclopedia, Jewish Encyclopedia,Encyclopedia Britannica, Universal Jewish Encyclopedia and countless others agree that the title "Jehovah" is erroneous, grammatically impossible, and was never used by the Jews.
4. Do Humans Possess an Immortal Soul?
Another mistake made by JWs is their denial of the immortality of the soul. The Bible mentions the soul approximately 200 times, and it can be seen to have very different meanings according to the context of each passage. This tract will simply demonstrate that the soul is immortal according to Scripture.
Perhaps the strongest contradiction of the WTS doctrine is seen in Christ’s descent to Hades. In 1 Peter 3:19, the apostle tells his audience how Jesus "preached to the spirits in prison." If the dead were aware of nothing, then his preaching would have been futile. In the OT, the prophet Isaiah speaks of the condition of the dead, "Sheol underneath has become agitated at you in order to meet you on coming in . . . all of them speak up and say. . . . Those seeing you will gaze even at you, saying . . . " (Is. 14:9-11). These verses indicate clearly that the dead are conscious, and the NT tells the same story. To be absent from the body is not to be unconscious, but rather it enables one to be home with the Lord, according to Paul (2 Cor. 5:8, Phil. 1:23). The body is just a tent, or tabernacle that does not last (2 Cor. 5:1-4; 2 Pet. 1:13), while man cannot kill the soul (Matt. 10:28). In fact, the souls live past the death of the bodies, since John "saw . . . the souls of those slaughtered . . . and they cried with a loud voice, saying . . . and they were told . . . " (Rev. 6:9-11). Because the soul does not die with the flesh, those in heaven are able to offer our prayers to God (Rev. 5:8), and live in happiness (Rev. 14:13).
5. Is Hell Real or Not?
The WTS also maintains that everlasting punishment is a myth and a lie invented by Satan. Hell is merely mankind’s common grave, and is definitely not a fiery torture, according to them.
According to Scripture, if one is in hell, "he shall be tormented with fire and sulfur . . . the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever, and day and night they have no rest" (Rev. 14:11). This is an "everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matt. 25:41). Jesus tells his listeners of Lazarus and the rich man, where the rich man dies, and is "existing in torment . . . he sees . . . calls out . . . ‘I am in anguish in this blazing fire’" (Luke 16:19-31). As a further illustration, Jesus stated that hell is likened to Gehenna. This "Valley of Hinnom" was located southeast of Jerusalem, and was used as a garbage dump where trash and waste were continuously burned day and night in a large fire. Jesus informs the listeners that hell is like this, "where the maggot does not die, and fire is not put out" (Mark 9:42-48). It is the place where the wicked are sent, and from this "everlasting fire" (Matt. 18:8) will come "weeping and the gnashing of teeth" (Matt. 8:12). Now if hell were "a place of rest in hope" as the WTS teaches, then it is odd that Jesus would choose such contradictory illustrations to convey this. Lastly, Revelation 20 calls hell a "pool of fire . . . [where] they will be tormented day and night, forever and ever"—all who are not in the book of life. So, if one’s name is in the book of life, one enters heaven (Rev. 21:27). If it not in the book, then a literal hell awaits.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Luke 11:13 (ESVST) 13 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"


*** w73 7/1 p. 402 par. 4 Praise Jehovah with His People ***

4 Consider, too, the fact that Jehovah’s organization alone, in all the earth, is directed by God’s holy spirit or active force.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

1Ti 2:4-6 (ESVST) 5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all



*** ws chap. 1 p. 10 par. 16 The Desire for Peace and Security Worldwide ***

Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all mankind. He is the Mediator between his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, and the nation of spiritual Israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

1Th 5:8-10 (ESVST) . 9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep we might live with him.

If we cease to exist when we die? Can we live when we cease to exist?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Act 4:11-12 (ESVST) 12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."



*** w81 11/15 p. 21 par. 18 ‘Stay Awake and Keep Your Senses’ ***

And while now the witness yet includes the invitation to come to Jehovah’s organization for salvation,



*** w93 9/15 p. 22 They Compassionately Shepherd the Little Sheep ***

But if we were to draw away from Jehovah’s organization, there would be no place else to go for salvation and true joy.

 

[katiemygirl]

4 Consider, too, the fact that Jehovah’s organization alone, in all the earth, is directed by God’s holy spirit or active force.

This will be the fifth time I post this question to Pegg. If Watchtower is directed by God's Holy Spirit, then why this contradiction?

Why can't I get an answer to this simple question?

Pegg posted the following quote last week.

WT 2004 May 1st Page 11 pg 14 -15

14 How does Jehovah speak to us? Consider Jeremiah again. Since Jeremiah was a prophet, Jehovah communicated directly with him. Jeremiah describes the effect of God’s words on his heart: “Your words were found, and I proceeded to eat them; and your word becomes to me the exultation and the rejoicing of my heart; for your name has been called upon me, O Jehovah God of armies.” (Jeremiah 15:16) Yes, Jeremiah delighted in the fact that God’s name had been called upon him, and His words were precious to the prophet. Hence, like the apostle Paul, Jeremiah was eager to declare the message entrusted to him.—Romans 1:15, 16.

15 Jehovah does not communicate directly with anyone today. However, we do have God’s words in the pages of the Bible. Hence, if we have a serious approach to our study of the Bible and meditate deeply on what we learn, God’s words will become “the exultation and the rejoicing” of our heart too.

1. Watchtower - "God does not communicate directly with any one today."

2. Watchtower - "We are God's only spirit directed organization."

So which is it?

 

[JFish123]

Sad but true...