Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God??

[djhwoodwerks]

You know, I'm actually, well maybe, thinking that the JW's might be the one "TRUE" religion. They may actually be correct.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Do you know that the GB has 1,700+ rules and regulations covering every aspect of the JW's lives!

 

[katiemygirl]

You know, I'm actually, well maybe, thinking that the JW's might be the one "TRUE" religion. They may actually be correct.

Really? How so?

 

[katiemygirl]

Do you know that the GB has 1,700+ rules and regulations covering every aspect of the JW's lives!

Jeepers, the Israelites only had six hundred something. And those were all nailed to the cross with Jesus.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Any organization that appears in prophecy has to be the TRUE organization of God.

From the book, The Finished Mystery. The book that has disappeared from the Kingdom halls. I'm just taking a guess here, but the proper representatives is more than likely the GB, huh?

 

[JFish123]

God speaks through His word and Spirit. Not to a sole organization. That's what a cult is. We are the only ones who can decipher the bible and therefor we alone know the truth about it... That. Is. A. Cult

 

[katiemygirl]

Any organization that appears in prophecy has to be the TRUE organization of God.

View attachment 9877

From the book, The Finished Mystery. The book that has disappeared from the Kingdom halls. I'm just taking a guess here, but the proper representatives is more than likely the GB, huh?

And the angel - the Watchtower Society, through its representatives, Took the censer... ¿¿¿¿¿ Really? Says who? Oh wait! Says the Watchtower Society. Of course! Then it must be true!

Am I seeing things, or does this actually say "Divinely Provided?"

WOW!!! Sounds like a claim of inspiration to me.

This brings me back to my earlier question. How does God communicate Bible interpretations to His sole channel, the GB?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

God speaks through His word and Spirit. Not to a sole organization. That's what a cult is. We are the only ones who can decipher the bible and therefor we alone know the truth about it... That. Is. A. Cult

Amen, you speak the truth!


Is the following quote blasphemy or am I just misunderstanding what they're trying to say?

*** w93 9/15 p. 22 They Compassionately Shepherd the Little Sheep ***
But if we were to draw away from Jehovah’s organization, there would be no place else to go for salvation and true joy. (Compare John 6:66-69.)

Sounds like kicked Jesus to the curb. All they need is the organization.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

And the angel - the Watchtower Society, through its representatives, Took the censer... ¿¿¿¿¿ Really? Says who? Oh wait! Says the Watchtower Society. Of course! Then it must be true!

Am I seeing things, or does this actually say "Divinely Provided?"

WOW!!! Sounds like a claim of inspiration to me.

This brings me back to my earlier question. How does God communicate Bible interpretations to His sole channel, the GB?

It gets better!

The 7th volume of "Studies in the Scriptures" is "HEAVEN"!!

 

[JFish123]

I don't mind talking to Jehovahs Witnesses but those who don't like them coming to their door, here's something worse... Jihadi Witnesses

 

[kjw47]

Where does the Bible say the 144,000 are the little flock? Where does it say God only has a "LITTLE" flock? Where does it say "ONLY" the 144,000 are under the New Covenant?

I didn't say there was only a little flock--there is the great multitude as well. I said only the little flock is promised heaven--see rev 14:3--the 144,000-- the great multitude is a much larger #--so the 144,000 must be the little flock. These are the anointed-the bride of Christ--these will rule as kings and priest' alongside of Jesus during his appointed reign as Gods king--these are the first resurrection.

 

[kjw47]

Please show me one verse from the Epistles where any of the Apostles or Disciples "EVER" taught about paradise earth. You say Jesus said to preach the Kingdom of God, what did the Apostles and Disciples teach and preach? Do a word search of the Epistles, teach, taught, preach, preached and see what you come up with.

Your translation changed earth to land at Matt 5:5---Jesus taught--Blessed are the meek for they will in herit the earth. they= the great multitude.
The psalmist said--- The righteous will possess the earth and reside forever upon it. psalm 37:9,11,29
Eden translates= paradise.

 

[kjw47]

First, I must point out, the Watchtowers interpretation of the bible mistranslates what the bible says to fit there ideology. Like in Revelation 7:4 they switch the interpretive methodology right in the middle of Revelation 7:4. What I mean by this is simply that they interpret the first half of the verse using a literal method of interpretation: "Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000..."
They conclude from this that the so called anointed class will have Precisely 144,000 people.
But then, the second half of the verse is not interpreted literally: "from all the tribes of Israel." In other words, the Watchtower Society says there are literally 144,000 people, but this refers not to the literal tribes of Israel but to the anointed class of Jehovahs Witnesses.
There's no justification for switching methods of interpretation from literal to figurative right in the middle of Revelation 7:4 unless you want it to say what YOU want it to say. See my point about the Watchtower? They do it all the time I'm afraid.
They've even said that women are a part of this group, when Revelation 14:4 states: "it is these who have not defiled themselves with women." And since the masculine pronouns are used of this group, it shows that they are all men.
Also, no where in Revelation does it say a great multitude is exempt from heaven. Revelation 7:9 clearly refers to this great multitude as "standing before the throne and In Front of the lamb." And the Greek word for "before" (enopeon) in Revelation 7:9 is used a number of times in that book to speak to those who are in the physical presence of Gods Throne.
And third and most importantly, it is the clear testimony of Scripture that a heavenly destiny awaits ALL who believe in Jesus Christ, not just a select group of 144,000 anointed believers (Ephesians 2:19, Philippians 3:20, Colossians 3:1, Hebrews 3:1, 12:22, 2 Peter 1:10-11)
Drawing a dichotomy between those with a heavenly destiny and those with an earthly one has no warrant in scripture. ALL who believe in Christ are heirs of the heavenly Kingdom (Galatians 3:29, 4:28-31, Titus 3:7, James 2:5) the righteousness of God that leads to life in heaven is available "through faith in Jesus Christ for ALL who believe (Romans 3:21). Jesus Promised, "If anyone serves me, he must follow me; and where I am, there He will be also (that is, heaven) (John 12:26). Jesus clearly affirmed that all believers will be together in "one flock" under "one shepherd" (John 10:16). There will not be two "folds" where one is on earth and the other in heaven. scripture is clear; One Fold, One Shepherd.
I hope you take these truths to heart.
Another falsehood by The Watchtower is the interpretation of Luke 12:32 that violates the context of the passage. They believe it refers to a select group of JW's. But A look at the context shows that Luke 12:22-34 (all 13 verses) is a Single unit.
It begins this way...
"And He (Jesus) said to His disciples..."
The entire unit from verse 22 to 34 contains words spoken by Jesus directly to His earthly disciplines in the first century. By no stretch of the imagination then, can Luke 12:32 be made to relate to a select group of 144,000 members of an anointed class that would develop from the first century to the year 1935. The Jehovahs Witnesses are reading something into the text that simply is not there.
Jesus refers to His disciples as Sheep in His flock (Matthew 10:16, 26:31). Jesus called them little flock because they were a small defenseless group that could easily be preyed upon.
That belief that the JW has is NOT based on scripture but an alleged "revelation" given to J.F. Rutherford.
And Jesus Never restricted the Kingdom to a mere 144,000. He taught that ALL people should seek the Kingdom (Heaven), and said that whoever sought it would find it (Matthew 9:35-38, Mark 1:14-15, Luke 12:22-34).

Catholicism translators erred in many spots to fit false council teachings--carried over into every trinity translation on earth--no one else translated for over 1200 years after the councils, all the originals were gone, Catholicism translating is all that remained.
Jesus taught for us to pray for Gods kingdom to come to the earth--and it will--the great multitude will stand before the throne( only ruling power in existence at that point)_ on earth.
Even the psalmist knew it was truth--Psalm 37:9,11,29

The JW teachers are correct, they are Jesus anointed teachers and the truth put forth at Luke 10:16= if one rejects Jesus anointed teachers they as well are rejecting Jesus and God.

here is a fact of harsh reality for this world--Mark 3:24-26--- a house divided will not stand= 33,000 different trinity based religions. a disunified mass of confusion--they fail to accomplish this-1Cor 1:10-- and this ultra important reality--John 4:22-24

 

[kjw47]

God speaks through His word and Spirit. Not to a sole organization. That's what a cult is. We are the only ones who can decipher the bible and therefor we alone know the truth about it... That. Is. A. Cult

No a cult in reality is a house divided=33,000 trinity religions--Mark 3:24-26--a house divided will not stand---do you understand this statement? Or this 1Cor 1:10

The JW,s are a worldwide brotherhood, unified in love, peace and thought. One religion, one truth, one faith, one God.

 

[katiemygirl]

I didn't say there was only a little flock--there is the great multitude as well. I said only the little flock is promised heaven--see rev 14:3--the 144,000-- the great multitude is a much larger #--so the 144,000 must be the little flock. These are the anointed-the bride of Christ--these will rule as kings and priest' alongside of Jesus during his appointed reign as Gods king--these are the first resurrection.

Why didn't you answer my last question to you?

What is the definition of a simile? Can you give a Biblical example of one?

And maybe you can explain how God communicates Bible interpretaion to the Governing Body? How does He communicate "new light?" Please describe the channel God uses.

 

[kjw47]

Why didn't you answer my last question to you?

What is the definition of a simile? Can you give a Biblical example of one?

And maybe you can explain how God communicates Bible interpretaion to the Governing Body? How does He communicate "new light?" Please describe the channel God uses.

Jesus said he would send a helper( meaning HS)-- Only Jesus' real teachers get help from the HS--the false teachers do not. You already know what a similie is.

 

[JFish123]

Catholicism translators erred in many spots to fit false council teachings--carried over into every trinity translation on earth--no one else translated for over 1200 years after the councils, all the originals were gone, Catholicism translating is all that remained.
Jesus taught for us to pray for Gods kingdom to come to the earth--and it will--the great multitude will stand before the throne( only ruling power in existence at that point)_ on earth.
Even the psalmist knew it was truth--Psalm 37:9,11,29

The JW teachers are correct, they are Jesus anointed teachers and the truth put forth at Luke 10:16= if one rejects Jesus anointed teachers they as well are rejecting Jesus and God.

here is a fact of harsh reality for this world--Mark 3:24-26--- a house divided will not stand= 33,000 different trinity based religions. a disunified mass of confusion--they fail to accomplish this-1Cor 1:10-- and this ultra important reality--John 4:22-24

Uhh, there not 33,000 different religions lol they may differ on certain verses but these verses don't go against the foundation teaching of Jesus Christ and Salvation which their UNITED upon. And the trinity is clearly seen throughout ALL of scripture as I pointed out in Dozens of verses in an earlier post. And no, the JW teachers have been deceived just like Arius who was a heretic when The Way sprang forth teaching that Jesus is a created being. There have been dozens of translations in the past 100 years by highly skilled scholars. And none of them agree with the New World Translation. But I guess to you the JW scholars are the only ones who are not biased in there work? That's not reality I'm afraid.

 

[katiemygirl]

Jesus said he would send a helper( meaning HS)-- Only Jesus' real teachers get help from the HS--the false teachers do not. You already know what a similie is.

Yes I know what a simile is, and 2 Peter 3:8 is a simile.

You know if you define what a simile is and give an example of one, you prove yourself WRONG.

You're stonewalling!

Answers like, "I doubt it," are not answers to straightforward questions.

You can be as obtuse as you want, but you should know that no one on the forum is being fooled, except maybe those from your religion.

I asked you HOW God communicates to the GB. You say the Holy Spirit guides only them and no one else. And we're all supposed to accept that because THEY and their followers say so.

HOGWASH!

 

[james2ko]

If you would just stop and actually read what I wrote, you would see that there were no sects in Christianity in the beginning....just as there were no sects in Judaism to begin with either. Sectarianism is an invention of men, not God. It divides people...it doesn't unite them.

1. Christ encouraged it so it is not the sectarianism itself that's the problem. It is pride and arrogance within each sect that divides people and doesn't unite them.

It wasn't until after the death of the apostles that apostate ideas crept into Christian teaching.....a time that would see the "weeds" that Jesus foretold, begin to infiltrate the Christian congregation in greater numbers. This is something that Paul warned about when he said that Christ's followers should all be of 'one mind and one set of beliefs'. (1 Cor 1:10)

2. You're basically repeating canned responses, which is what I expected . The fact of the matter is the bible is clear on Jesus permitting other sects that place their faith in him and practices what He teaches to the extent of their knowledge and understanding. What he does not permit is divisions and factions among them.

He was not talking about the false beliefs that infiltrated later from Catholicism, that are retained by Christendom to the present day, (even among Protestant denominations.)

3. False beliefs according to who, your "sects" interpretation of scripture and history? And Yes whether you want to admit it or not, JW is a sect of Christianity. There is no one true Christian human organization. There is one body, one ekklesia, one group of called out ones and they are scattered throughout fellowships.

What is a denomination? It is a sect. Jesus does not recognise "versions" of his teachings.

4. Mar 9:38-40 thoroughly refutes this proposition.

Why would Jesus call their teachings "leaven" (something synonymous with corruption) if he approved of what they taught? To the extent that they taught what God's word mandated according to the Law of Moses, to that extent only were they to be followed. But what they taught is not what they practiced.

5. He never called all of their teachings leaven. It was their hypocrisy toward their own teachings He called leaven.

This finds a parallel with Christendom's shepherds....they do not practice what they preach either.

6. There are those in all sects who do not practice what they preach and yes that includes yours. But there are also those in your sect and others who do not engage in hypocrisy.

Christ taught his disciples to be "no part of the world" yet you will find various "Christian" denominations meddling in politics in almost every western nation.

7. That's correct. And there are also others, besides yours, that do not.

He taught us to 'love our enemies', yet the churches support the bloodshed of their nations, with the full blessing of the clergy. In fact the two World Wars of last century could not have been fought without their support, in effect praying the troops into the trenches by telling them that God was with them. Whose side was God on, when he had already told his worshippers "thou shalt not kill"? We know that "kill" in this instance means "murder", which is the unsanctioned taking of human life. There is much unsanctioned blood on their hands. (Isa 1:15) Nations have no mandate to murder, yet they do it in a wholesale fashion.

8. Remember the stories in the OT of Israel being mandated to kill. We also see God, not directly but through His agents, making humans sin (1 Ch 5:26;1 ki 22:22) for his sovereign purpose. But there is also a "little" thing called forgiveness (with sincere repentance). Remember this next time to you roll through a stop sign, or go through a yellow traffic light, or go 1 mph over the speed limit, or think an evil thought, or how about the sins you don't even realize you've committed?

We are taught not to adopt pagan elements into our worship, and yet most of what Christendom accepts as "Christian" festivals and celebrations are straight out of the pagan world...not from the Bible. (2 Cor 6:14-18)

9. There are many pagan customs that have made there way into Christianity. Simply because something has a pagan origin does not mean it is sinful to utilize or practice. Wedding rings, funeral customs, days of the week, all have pagan origins. The money we use has pagan symbols. (Good luck attempting to cease using money). Egyptian mythology dictates the dead should be embalmed, yet Joseph participated in this custom (Gen. 50:2-3) despite its pagan origin. So the question arises, how careful must we be in removing paganism from our lives? Where do we draw the line? The answer?..... Different Christians draw the line in different places. I myself do not celebrate Christmas, birthdays, and other holidays. But I ceased from condemning Christians who do. I learned that if you condemn a Christian for a controversial practice they do not realize/believe is sin, Christ will judge you by that same standard (Mat 7:1-2).

The man was not joined to the apostles or other followers of Jesus at that time, but since there were no sects in Christianity, (because there was no Christianity at that point) he was not a member of a rival sect....he was personally experiencing the power of the name of Jesus Christ....something Jesus did not condemn because he knew where it would lead him. He would of necessity have come in contact and joined the ranks of fellow Christians if he wanted to belong to "The Way"......there was just one "way"...not many.

10. Lots of assumptions made here. So mine would be just as good as yours. Jesus was paving the way for the establishment of different groups and sects with one common denominator or "way"--Himself.

He was not free to start up his own church. (Heb 10:24, 25)

11. He would simply be an extension of Christ's body of believers.

Why do I need to be careful? The answer is obvious. Neither.

12. Then He should have condemned the man for casting out demons in hisname. But He didnt. Indicating sectarianism was a non-issue. It is the pride, arrogance, hypocrisy exemplified by the individuals from each sect.

Jesus came to cleanse the worship of his Father among his own chosen people, now thoroughly corrupted. Judaism had apostatised, so it was not viewed as true worship when Jesus came to the earth. He went to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" in order to gather together out of them a cleansed people who would obey his teachings...those teachings were designed to educate humble Jews in true worship, not the sham worship promoted by the Pharisees and Saducees. What followed later was "Christianity"...not a new religion, but a cleansed form of the old. The people were still worshipping Israel's God....Jesus' God.

13. Once again. Jesus demonstrated it was not existence of the sects themselves that were the problem. It was the pride and arrogance of the individuals within the sects that were the issue. Notice how Jesus never criticized the fact they were several different sects in existence.

What was missing was the old law covenant because Jesus' death had fulfilled it, releasing God's people from its curse. (The inability to keep it perfectly) The law of love now impelled Christ's disciples to follow Christ's steps as their model. Their primary activity was to preach about God's kingdom.

14. Jesus' death fulfilled the curse of the law, which was death. The moral law-- The ten commandments-- were and still are binding to this day. The law of love is codified in the ten commandments. The first four show us how to love God. The last six teach us how to love our neighbor. These are also the two great commandments spoken of by Christ (Mar 12:30-31). It all points back to the Moral Law--the big ten. Topic for another thread.

And yet, God always managed to have a people separated out for his own worship and purpose, even if they did not remain on track for long....human nature being what it is, they will always end up doing things their own way....not God's way. It is up to us to see what God requires and join ourselves to those who are "doing the will of the Father". By our choices we are telling God how much "his way" means to us.

15. I can agree with that. But the "people" He chooses to work with are not confined to one earthly, corporate entity or organization. They are scattered throughout many. I believe this is what God intended for the New Covenant. As soon as ancient Israel became one "exclusive" entity, they corrupted themselves. God divided them rather quickly. For the exception of a few short years with King Saul, they were mostly divided throughout their history (house of Judah and house of Israel). During the reign of David and Solomon they were united politically but still had separate identities (2 Sa 19:40-43;24:1; 1 Ki 4:25). Both houses are separated to this day. They will finally be totally unified when Christ returns. The underlying message here is that God understands that a single "human" entity cannot handle theological exclusivism for long. This is one of many reasons we need the kingdom to come!

By the time Christ returns in any visible form...it will be too late. There will be no time for changing our mind then. His return was unseen and unrealised by the majority of "Christians" for the simple reason that they refused the cleansing that God offered to his people at that time and ignored the signs he gave to indicate his "presence" as king. Just as the Jews refused to believe Jesus, so Christendom has refused to believe the things taught by God's true worshippers in this "time of the end". (Dan 12:4, 9, 10; Matt 24:36-39)

16. Am I reading three returns of Christ?

Or it is hilarious only to those "blinded" to the way it really is. (2 Cor 4:3, 4) What if "the blind leading the blind" is Christendom in its many sects happily travelling down the wrong road? (2 Thess 2:9-12) How many of the Jews that cursed themselves with the blood of Christ actually believed that he was the real son of God? (Matt 25:27:24, 25) The majority of the people of that nation, who were supposed to be God's chosen ones, lost out on what God was offering them. (Matt 24:37-39) Who was to blame for that? Since the words of Jesus in Matt 7:21-23 apply at the judgment, it is a sad thing indeed that you do not discern the timing of his words and whom he is addressing. The fallacious reasoning is all yours I'm afraid.

17. We shoudn't rip verses out of context to support an erred doctrine. The sentence is carried out at the judgment, but the teaching of these verses, as well as the teaching in the prior two chapters, applies during a Christian's lifetime. So we're back to square one. Here is the glaring inconsistency exposed in your doctrine:

Wait a sec. You claim the statement made by Christ in Mar 9:38-40 does not apply to Christians today because the guy was a Jew under the law of Moses, but a statement made to Jews under the same law of Moses in Mat 7:21-23 does apply to Christians today??? You guys are hilarious . This is what happens when you blindly follow an organization and don't think for yourselves. You start tripping over your own fallacious rhetoric. The individuals Jesus spoke to in Mat 7:21-23 were also Jewish and Christianity had not yet formed. Applying your twisted logic of Mar 9:38-40, the sermon on the mount can not apply to Christians today either​

There has always been an "us" verses "them". As soon as men turned worship into rival systems....you have an "us and them". Jesus said we had to determine who is right and who is wrong by the "fruits" (actions) that we see them demonstrate in obedience to Christ's teachings.

18. Yes. And I see many good fruits/actions carried out by many Christian organizations.

Not just picking and choosing what they will do and what they can justify their way out of. If the Christian way was to be cramped and narrow.....where is the hardship for Christendom? Where is the hatred for doing what Jesus commanded? (John 15:18-21) Who were the enemies of Jesus?...his own people....those who claimed to worship the same God. History repeats.

19. Jesus/Christians had many more enemies than just the Jews, which destroys your point. Do you see how you were taught to cherry pick historical situations/scenarios and shape them into justifying your questionable doctrines?

I was once a member of Christendom, blind like all the rest....I have had my eyes and ears opened already...thank you. I see clearly who is obeying the Christ and who is not. No way I could go back into ignorance again.

20. It's scary to see how close your attitude is in such harmony with that of some of the scribes and Pharisees:

Joh 9:41 "If you were blind, you wouldn't be guilty," Jesus replied. "But you remain guilty because you claim you can see. NLT

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood apart by himself and prayed, 'I thank you, God, that I am not greedy, dishonest, or an adulterer, [and do not observe pagan holidays and customs] like everybody else. I thank you that I am not [ignorant] like that [Christian] tax collector over there. NLT

Mat 9:11 But when the Pharisees saw this, they asked His disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with such scum? "
Mat 9:12 When Jesus heard this, He said, "Healthy people don't need a doctor—sick people do."
Mat 9:13 Then He added, "Now go and learn the meaning of this Scripture: 'I want you to show mercy, not offer sacrifices.' For I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners." NLT​

 

[james2ko]

How right you are.... im getting lazy/sloppy... time to pull my socks up

Pro 10:26 As vinegar to the teeth and smoke to the eyes, So is the lazy man to those who send him.​

Is that why my eyes feel like they are burning and my teeth hurt?