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Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God??
- Thread starter katiemygirl
- Start date
Isn't that Watchtower literature? Of course there going to say there in the bible
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
Isn't that Watchtower literature? Of course there going to say there in the bible
Yes it's from the book, The Finished Mystery
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
Its very ironic that in a discussion about using correct translations and errors in translations and additions or subtractions, you choose to use Mark 16:16.
Do you know anything about the verses you are using? Are you sure they are the 'words of Jesus'??
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
All christian preachers/priests/pators teach what they think they understand as a truth and expect adherence to their interpretations. Thats why you believe what you do. Someone told you that is what it is. And you carry on their teachings.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
Where are those groups now and what has become of them?
Many fizzled out into nothing. Can we confirm if Gods blessing was with them? Where are they today? Do they participate in the preaching of the good news of the kingdom earthwide?
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
Not at all. There were a number of bible scholars throughout the dark ages who got a lot right. They determined the Name Jehovah and wrote it in the bible. William Tyndale was the first english translator to do put the name into english.
There were scholars such as Cellarius’ who made remarks regarding the nature of Jesus Christ. Although he did not directly contradict the Trinity (it would have got him executed by the clergy) He distinguished the “Heavenly Father” from “his Son Jesus Christ” and wrote that Jesus was one of many gods and sons of the almighty God.
The Spanish theologian Michael Servetus used Bible texts to disprove the Trinity back in the 16th century.
There have been christians during those dark ages who did also come to the same conclusions as those early bible students.
But the reason why christians were in darkness for so long was foretold by Christs apostles way back in the first century.
“Oppressive wolves will enter in among you and will not treat the flock with tenderness, and from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.” (Acts 20:29, 30)
“There will also be false teachers among you. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects . . . , and on account of these the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively.”—2 Peter 2:1, 2.
Christianity was hijacked for a long time. But when Gods due time came around, he made truth freely available and many christians responded. They began to promote true bible teachings....not only the early bible students btw, there were other preachers who were teaching similar truths.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
Are you saying that Jesus did not know what Gods name was?
The prophets of old knew the name....they wrote it in their scriputres over 7,000 times. Do you really believe that Jesus did not know that name?
BTW, there is evidence from outside sources that the name of God was being 'written' by the Christians in the first century.
- Early Jewish writings indicate that Jewish Christians used the divine name in their writings. The Tosefta, a written collection of oral laws that was completed by about 300 C.E., says with regard to Christian writings that were burned on the Sabbath: “The books of the Evangelists and the books of the minim [thought to be Jewish Christians] they do not save from a fire. But they are allowed to burn where they are, they and the references to the Divine Name which are in them.” This same source quotes Rabbi Yosé the Galilean, who lived at the beginning of the second century C.E., as saying that on other days of the week, “one cuts out the references to the Divine Name which are in them [understood to refer to the Christian writings] and stores them away, and the rest burns.”
As apostate christians took over the congregations, they began hiding the divine name and omitting it from newer copies of the bible.
Shame on them and all who know and hide the divine name today.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
What do you do to preach the gospel into the world?
I think the part which says "in the likeness of man having been made" isn't about the man himself but about his work. Jesus took the role of The Word, the way, the truth and the life. God is MORE than the way, the truth and the life. They are not the same.
A person can certainly be divine but not be YHVH.
Holy, holy holy is Jehovah God The Almighty. Is holy the same as divine? Or different? Are we ordered to be holy? I think so. Are we ordered to be YHVH?
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Maybe he talks to people he meets about it. Maybe he doesn't drive around all day using up gasoline for nothing most days.
So he doesn't publish millions upon millions of books, magazines and pamphlets. Maybe he is a tree lover.
They think they will get a hearing for their many words. Maybe he takes that to heart or not.
JayJayDee
Avid JW Bible Student
Can you tell me what the penalty was for eating the forbidden fruit in the garden of Eden?
Was Adam fully informed about what would happen to him if he wilfully broke the only command there was?
What sentence did God pass on him? (Gen 3:19)
Humans were created in much the same way as all other creatures of flesh and blood. But something gave him an advantage.....only he was created with the intellectual, moral and spiritual qualities of his Creator. And the only thing that could end his mortal life was disobedience to the only command that carried the death penalty.
It was God's first purpose to have a race of perfect, free willed beings living on this earth who would have his attributes and act as caretakers of all the other creatures who shared life with him. All creatures had a finite life cycle....except man. Only he had an expectation to live forever, without dying. But this would only come about by his continued obedience.
A rebel spirit son of God caused an upset in the beginning but not one that was too serious. Mankind lost their physical perfection and were barred from "the tree of life"...the one thing that guaranteed continued life. (Gen 3:22-24) God stepped in straight away with a solution....one that would test not only humankind, but also all of God's spirit creatures as well. He would allow freedom of choice without much intervention, to prove that his rule was superior and that human rule under the pretender's influence would not be successful. Sin and death would rule mankind from that time on, until the savior came offered his life to save them.
Humans, for now would have no advantage over the animals. (Eccl 3:19, 20)
If Adam and his wife had simply obeyed their God, they would still be alive today in global paradise conditions, working alongside all their progeny in complete peace and security.
Christ would never have been needed as a savior and God would have continued as king over humankind. No humans would have ever gone to heaven. Have you ever contemplated this?
Can humans souls exist without emotions? It is after all, what makes us human. And Yet Solomon wrote...
"Ecclesiastes 9:3-6, 10...."This is the sad thing about all that happens under the sun: the same fate awaits everyone. Moreover, the human heart is full of evil; people’s minds are full of madness while they are alive, and afterward they die. Whoever is among the living can be certain about this. A living dog is definitely better off than a dead lion, because the living know that they will die. But the dead know nothing at all. There is no more reward for them; even the memory of them is lost. Their love and their hate, as well as their zeal, are already long gone. They will never again have a stake in all that happens under the sun....Whatever you are capable of doing, do with all your might because there’s no work, thought, knowledge, or wisdom in the grave, which is where you are headed." (CEB)
A person's emotions cease at death...'their love and their hate as well as their zeal are gone'. They have no ability to work, think or know anything because death renders them inactive. "The grave" is Sheol, the Hebrew equivalent of Hades.
Can I just clarify the one thing before we go on? The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is a Bible publishing house, licensed under American law for the printing and distribution of large volumes of Bibles and literature.
We are Jehovah's Witnesses.
So first we need to discern the difference between "soul" and "spirit". They do not mean the same thing in Hebrew. A soul is never disembodied. Spirit (pneuma) means "breath".
This is where knowledge of the Bible's teaching to Israel comes in. The ancient Jews had no concept of life after death. Their hope of living again was by means of a resurrection......not drifting off to heaven as spirit, but of complete non-existence in "the grave" as Solomon said. All the resurrections performed in the Bible were returns to life as humans of flesh and blood. This is what the Jews believed, so this is what Jesus showed them by demonstration.
When Jesus calls the dead out of their graves, where does he call them from? (John 5:28, 29) The exact same place from where he called Lazarus....his tomb. Where was Lazarus before Jesus raised him? Jesus tells us in John 11:11-14...."Our friend Lazarus is sleeping, but I am going in order to wake him up.” The disciples said, “Lord, if he’s sleeping, he will get well.” They thought Jesus meant that Lazarus was in a deep sleep, but Jesus had spoken about Lazarus’ death. Jesus told them plainly, “Lazarus has died."
When Jesus said that we should not "fear those who can only kill the body but not the soul", he uses a word that most people miss. He said, "Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell." "Hell" in this scripture is "sheol" or "hades". So in hades (the grave) as Solomon had said, the dead know nothing. All future life prospects for humankind are tied up in their resurrection. Only God can "destroy" a soul by leaving it in death, never to awaken. This is what "Gehenna" meant to a Jew.....a death with no resurrection. There is no immortal soul in the Bible.
The soul is completely mortal...it dies. (Ezekiel 18:4)
Apostate Christianity adopted belief in an immortal soul from the platonic Greek notion of life after death.
Again, without belief in an immortal soul, Jesus words make sense in another way. The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection. (Acts 23:8) Abraham, Isaac and Jacob had died and it was their belief in a resurrection when Messiah's kingdom came to the earth, that they would be restored to life. This was the reason that Abraham could offer up his son so willingly.....he figured that since all the messianic promises were made through Isaac, that God would simply raise him from the dead. Since all the promises were to be fulfilled on earth, then his future life prospects had to be earthly. (Heb 11:17-19) As far as God is concerned, it's as if all his faithful pre-Christian servants still live, but are just waiting in their graves for the call to come out. (Heb 11:39, 40) They are just "sleeping" from his perspective, as Jesus said.
Now it's my turn to hit the hay.....I will address your other posts tomorrow, Aussie time.
I rest my case. (You wish!)
james2ko
Well-Known Member
Yes some did fizzle out but others are still in existence. If you are going to use the fallacy of blessing, time of existence, and the extent of preaching the gospel (the gospel is much more than just the kingdom) as a gauge for the "true" church, I can think of a few who far surpass your organization in one and or all three. The point is Rutherford, your current sects founder, apostasized from the teachings of Russell and formed his own church. The very concept for which you condemn Christendom! That is being hypocritical to say the least. The very character trait condemned by Christ of the Pharisees. And as has been demonstrated in a prior reply to JD, (point 20 here) that is indicative of the character your organization exemplifies.
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djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
Lol, I couldn't have expected any less of a JW. Look at my post very carefully, did I say Jesus didn't know God's name? I said He never used it. It never came out of His mouth. As recorded in the scriptures.
I agree with your evidence of the devine name, but it wasn't JEHOVAH, that is not God's name! The word JEHOVAH never came out of the mouth of anyone in the 1st century.
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
LMBO!! Your "EVIDENCE"
*** w08 8/1 p. 20 Should the Name Jehovah Appear in the New Testament? ***
▪ Early Jewish writings indicate that Jewish Christians used the divine name in their writings. The Tosefta, a written collection of oral laws completed by about 300 C.E., says with regard to Christian writings that were burned on the Sabbath: “The books of the Evangelists and the books of the minim [thought to be Jewish Christians] they do not save from a fire. But they are allowed to burn where they are, . . . they and the references to the Divine Name which are in them.” This same source quotes Rabbi Yosé the Galilean, who lived at the beginning of the second century C.E., as saying that on other days of the week “one cuts out the references to the Divine Name which are in them [the Christian writings] and stores them away, and the rest burns.” Thus, there is strong evidence that the Jews living in the second century C.E. believed that Christians used Jehovah’s name in their writings.
You know in your heart this cannot be used as "TRUE" evidence. It could be "adjusted" tomorrow. Nothing the WT publishes can be used as proof of anything, because they could receive "NEW LIGHT" at any time.
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
*** w80 2/1 p. 11 The Divine Name in Later Times ***
THE NAME “JEHOVAH” BECOMES WIDELY KNOWN
Interestingly, Raymundus Martini, a Spanish monk of the Dominican order, first rendered the divine name as “Jehova.” This form appeared in his book Pugeo Fidei, published in 1270 C.E.—over 700 years ago.
In time, as reform movements developed both inside and outside the Catholic Church, the Bible was made available to the people in general, and the name “Jehovah” became more widely known. In 1611 C.E. the King James or Authorized Version of the Bible was published. It uses the name Jehovah four times. (Ex. 6:3; Ps. 83:18; Isa. 12:2; 26:4) Since then, the Bible has been translated many, many times. Some translations follow the example of the Authorized Version and include the divine name only a few times.
In this category is An American Translation (by Smith and Goodspeed) with a slight variation of using “Yahweh” instead of “Jehovah.” Yet, one may ask: “Why have the translators done this? If using ‘Jehovah’ or ‘Yahweh’ is wrong, why put it in at all? If right, why not be consistent and use it every time it appears in the Bible text?”
Against the preceding historical and factual background, let us now examine what the translators say in answer. (emphasis mine)
THE NAME “JEHOVAH” BECOMES WIDELY KNOWN
Interestingly, Raymundus Martini, a Spanish monk of the Dominican order, first rendered the divine name as “Jehova.” This form appeared in his book Pugeo Fidei, published in 1270 C.E.—over 700 years ago.
In time, as reform movements developed both inside and outside the Catholic Church, the Bible was made available to the people in general, and the name “Jehovah” became more widely known. In 1611 C.E. the King James or Authorized Version of the Bible was published. It uses the name Jehovah four times. (Ex. 6:3; Ps. 83:18; Isa. 12:2; 26:4) Since then, the Bible has been translated many, many times. Some translations follow the example of the Authorized Version and include the divine name only a few times.
In this category is An American Translation (by Smith and Goodspeed) with a slight variation of using “Yahweh” instead of “Jehovah.” Yet, one may ask: “Why have the translators done this? If using ‘Jehovah’ or ‘Yahweh’ is wrong, why put it in at all? If right, why not be consistent and use it every time it appears in the Bible text?”
Against the preceding historical and factual background, let us now examine what the translators say in answer. (emphasis mine)
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
*** nwt p. 1735 A4 The Divine Name in the Hebrew Scriptures ***
Explaining why he used “Jehovah” instead of “Yahweh” in his 1911 work Studies in the Psalms, respected Bible scholar Joseph Bryant Rotherham said that he wanted to employ a “form of the name more familiar (while perfectly acceptable) to the general Bible-reading public.” In 1930 scholar A. F. Kirkpatrick made a similar point regarding the use of the form “Jehovah.” He said: “Modern grammarians argue that it ought to be read Yahveh or Yahaveh; but JEHOVAH seems firmly rooted in the English language, and the really important point is not the exact pronunciation, but the recognition that it is a Proper Name, not merely an appellative title like ‘Lord.’”
Explaining why he used “Jehovah” instead of “Yahweh” in his 1911 work Studies in the Psalms, respected Bible scholar Joseph Bryant Rotherham said that he wanted to employ a “form of the name more familiar (while perfectly acceptable) to the general Bible-reading public.” In 1930 scholar A. F. Kirkpatrick made a similar point regarding the use of the form “Jehovah.” He said: “Modern grammarians argue that it ought to be read Yahveh or Yahaveh; but JEHOVAH seems firmly rooted in the English language, and the really important point is not the exact pronunciation, but the recognition that it is a Proper Name, not merely an appellative title like ‘Lord.’”
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
*** nwt p. 1734 A4 The Divine Name in the Hebrew Scriptures ***
Why, then, does this translation use the form “Jehovah”? Because that form of the divine name has a long history in the English language.
Why, then, does this translation use the form “Jehovah”? Because that form of the divine name has a long history in the English language.
If fizzling out means Gods Spirit wasn't upon them, then how can you say Christians who've proclaimed Jesus as God and a Trinity don't have God with them and there message if they haven't fizzled out for over 1,900 years?
That is a pretty long time and it doesn't look like that message of truth is stopping anytime soon. Remember the Pharisee told the others about Peter and the apostles teaching in Acts 5:38-39:
"Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God."
The Truth that Jesus is God and there is a Trinity hasn't stopped for 1,900 years and has continued to grow for millennia because it's found throughout scripture. You'd think if the Watchtower has the truth that God wouldn't allow a false gospel to be preached sending people to hell for 1,900 years. So why didnt the so called discreet slave come earlier instead of 1,900 later where God Supposedly didn't have a witness for 2 millennia?
Which is more plausible, that God let a false gospel bd the main gospel preached around the world for thousands of years and didn't have a witness for 1,900 years. Or that it was the Truth and a sect that came 1,900 years later distorted the gospel to bake it say something it doesn't?