Watchtower: Jesus is not "a god"!

[YoursTrue]

If you properly define the meaning of the word, ‘God’ or ‘A God’, then you would understand fully the difference and able to explain to others.

‘God’ is a TITLE…. It is like ‘King’, ‘Majesty’, ‘Supreme One’…

It is also an ADJECTIVE and a SUPERLATIVE ADJECTIVE at that. Therefore it is like: ‘Greatest’, ‘Most high’, ‘All powerful’, ‘Heroic’, ‘Noblest’…

But all these must be taken IN CONTEXT of the position in which it is used.

Therefore Jesus is THE MOST HIGH …OF HUMANITY (there is the CONTEXT)

But YHWH is “MOST HIGH’ of ‘ALL WHOM ARE CALLED ‘superlative adjective’.”

Jesus told the Jews that he DID NOT CALL HIMSELF ‘God’…!

He DIDNT call himself even ‘A GOD’!!

He told them that he ‘ONLY CALLED GOD HIS FATHER’!!!

And, in fact, he continued saying that THE GOD, his Father, the one whom the Jews believed in, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, himself called those ‘HEROES OF HUMANITY who received the word of this same God, “GODS”’.

Analyse the claim.l:

• ‘Heroes’ : ‘Gods’
• Context: ‘Of humanity’
• ‘Gods’: ‘Heroes of humanity’

Join the dots. It turns a complete circle of truth… each claim validating every other claim.

And yet, even as THE ALMIGHTY (of all Almighties) called ‘mighty ones (of humanity)’ ‘GODs’ He, Jesus himself, did not even call himself anything of a superlative adjective! But only that God the almighty was his Father.

The tragic trinitarian twist tries to tempt the truth:

• Jesus was calling himself ‘God’ when he said ‘I DID NOT SAY I WAS GOD’

So says the corrupters of scriptures!!

Jesus said there is one TRUE God. He knew what that meant. OK, so long for now. Bye...Oh, and he didn't mean he, Jesus, was a "false" god, or God, however you want to manufacture it. It means that those who really understand know what Jesus was talking about. bye again.

 

[Dogknox20]

Dogknox, can I ask you this:
If someone said to you (in a plausible situation as a human being):
“If you kneel down and eat the food out of that bowl on the floor I will give you my car…!”.
And you replied,

• ‘It is written on the can: ‘This food is for cats alone’

Would that mean that the food is for you and that’s because you are a cat?

Soapy It's a very weird question... It would mean "If I want the car I would eat the food"! Humans have free will; don't forget!

Let me ax you a question... "A god" means many, more then one! Christians believe Jesus is GOD.. The ONE and only God! JW's believe Jesus is "A god" one of many!
Here is the question: When Jesus told Satan.. "Worship is ONLY for God" he did not say "A god" he said God meaning The ONE God! Jesus accepts worship as "The God" would this not mean "Jesus is THE God!" because Jesus did not say worship is only for "A god"!

Christians have always believed Jesus is "The God" they reject any idea of many or more then one god!

 

[Dogknox20]

You kind of answered your own question. Did Jesus tell Satan, "hey, worship me, I'm God?" No, he did not. He told Satan finally to get away from him. also told him that worship belongs ONLY to God. He didn't say "I am God." He never said that at all, so I think you're mixing the words up What does the word worship mean? Before you answer that, consider that Jesus deserves honor and reverence because of his position and love for God, his FATHER, and his love for others as well. He also has power. Remember that? Remember --- the power was GIVEN to him. I know you won't believe it, but then -- that's how it goes...And because of that, Jesus IS a "deity," or a god. And he rightly deserves reverence and honor. NO ONE can go to the Father unless they honor, revere Jesus, worshipping God in spirit and truth. The word 'worship' in terms of Jesus can be misleading -- but you must understand that no one, absolutely no one, is acceptable to God the Father unless they honor and revere Jesus, the Son of God, and accept his sacrifice and position. "No one comes to the Father except -- through me," said Jesus. (John 14:6) Thus one cannot be acceptable to the Father except through Jesus.
Perhaps we can discuss other things another time.

.
You mix words... Worship is ONLY for God! We both agree!?
Now you toss in the word.. honor and revere your problem is.. Scriptures do not say.. "They clasped his feed and revered him!"
The author that wrote "Worship is ONLY for God" also used the same word "WORSHIP" when they clasped Jesus' feet! Your WISHING they Revered Jesus does NOT make it so!

Worship means.... The same for Satan as for those who fall at the feet of Jesus and worship Jesus!

YoursTrue You pointed to.. John 14:6 "No one comes to the Father except -- through me," said Jesus". Here is something to think about... "The CHURCH is the body of Jesus!" No one can come to the Father accept through the ONLY Church Jesus established on ROCK (not sand) It's NOT YOURS!
YoursTrue Your church rejects what Christians have always believed.. "Jesus is God"! Satan rejects Christian belief; he is "Anti-Christ"! Satan' churches teach Opposite of the Christian churches and his churches also reject the cross it was by the Cross that Satan was defeated! Christian use the CROSS it is their universal symbol you won't find a cross on Satan' churches!!

 

[Dogknox20]

Your ‘facts’ are NONSENSE because YOU ARE REPEATING NONSENSE!!!

Tell me, is that what your FALSE preachers told you to do – that you must brainwash yourself by chanting to yourself ‘Jesus is God….Jesus is God….Jesus is God...’ day in and day out until your mind is totally convinced Jesus is God despite what God has claimed of Himself and Jesus himself clearly denied he’s God in your own scripture???

Let me remind you that God made it very CLEAR that besides Him, there’s NO OTHER God and Jesus himself made it very CLEAR that he is NOT God when he rebuked the man who called him ‘good’ and told the man that no one is good EXCEPT GOD ALONE! In other words, Jesus is denying he’s God because ONLY God can be good and he’s NOT God to be called ‘good’. If Jesus is God, then Jesus would NOT have said ‘only God alone is good’ and rebuked the man for calling him ‘good’!! So try to think logically even though your thinking logic is SO basic and THAT limited!

You can brainwash yourself day in and day out like a lunatic cult-follower BUT you CANNOT change the fact Jesus IS NOT GOD! You are forced to deny God’s claim of Himself that beside Him, there’s NO OTHER GOD and you are forced to ignore that Jesus denied he’s God when he rebuked the man for calling him ‘good’ as ONLY God is good!

Satan KNEW Jesus is NOT God but he WANTS YOU to believe Jesus is God because by believing so, Satan SUCCEEDED in diverting your worship AWAY from the true God!! So, YOU, whether you realize it or not, in worshipping Jesus as God is actually fulfilling Satan’s ultimate goal and that is, to make sure mankind does NOT worship the One and Only True God!!

In John 1, the ‘Word’ is NOT Jesus!! Have Jesus ever referred to himself as the ‘Word’??? NOT even once!!

In John 1, the ‘Word’ is the spoken Word from God to initiate His Command (to create), and His Command or His Word is Him(God) just as your NONSENSE is you.
You are trying to deny that God creates by just saying it or commanding it into existence – “For He spoke, and it came to be; He commanded, and it stood firm” – Psalm 33:9.

You can deny what Jesus had said of those who worship him but that does not change the
FACT:
Your belief is what Satan wants you to believe!!
FACT:
Your worship of Jesus is in vain as what Jesus himself said – “In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men” – Matthew 15:9
FACT:
Dogknox20 is 100% NONSENSE
Dogknox20 is 100% man
Dognox20 the NONSENSE man!

Anymore NONSENSE you want to tell me??? Please keep me amused but try NOT to keep repeating like a broken record the same old NONSENSE!!!

.
Jesus is Man and Jesus is God.... Only God is Good! Our goal is to be united with God! To be united with God we MUST be united with Jesus!

The word is Jesus!
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was with God in the beginning.
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

The word is Jesus!
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

The WORD is Jesus!
18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

Jesus created all things.... God created all things
Praise the Lord.
Praise the Lord from the heavens;
praise him in the heights above.
2 Praise him, all his angels;
praise him, all his heavenly hosts.
3 Praise him, sun and moon;
praise him, all you shining stars.
4 Praise him, you highest heavens
and you waters above the skies.
5 Let them praise the name of the Lord,
for at his command they were created,
6 and he established them for ever and ever—
he issued a decree that will never pass away.


15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
6 The angel said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God who inspires the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place.”

 

[Dogknox20]

Sad to say, whether you realize it or not, you are worshipping three persons. (Sad.)

YoursTrue Christians teach & Believe in ONE God! Jesus is God... The ONE!

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.
John 8;12 When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

It's the JW's that have the many gods! Jesus is "A" god meaning one of many!

 

[Clear]

1) No one is obligated to accept a position supported by fake scripture offered by Dogknox20
I think it is dishonest for Dogknox20 to offer fake versions of John 1:18 to readers to support his position.
I do not think individuals should create or offer fake text to support a position.
No reader is obligated to believe in a claim supported by fake scripture.


Having said that I agree with readers who note that :
2) Incarnate Jesus was “the Word” referred to in John 1:14

1)I agree that John 1:14 which says “…the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us and we saw his glory. The glory as the only begotten (of) the Father full of grace and truth.” is, in early Christian tradition, referring to Jesus. Jesus was “the Word”.



3) The “Word” (Jesus) referred to in John 1:1c in early Christianity was, in some manner divine, or God-like, or a God, or The God of the old testament.

Johns' witness is that “In the beginning was THE word. And the Word was in the beginning with THE God. And THE word was A God (or THE God – either translation is fine with me)
John 1:1c seems to be saying that the word was, somehow either “a” or “the” God, or was, in some way divine. This is not to say Jesus is the same as his Father.

It is the details are what are difficult to ferret out.
Such as, in what manner is the Word being referred to as “a God’ (or the God depending upon which translation one uses).
If the debaters could agree regarding what John is witnessing to, perhaps more progress and agreement can be made in this debate.




4) Can debaters come to some basic and discrete agreement on the text of the O.P. rather than cut and paste repeated phrases?

Perhaps debaters can agree on basic points of the O.P.
Is Jesus "the Word" of John 1:1c?
Is "the Word" the incarnate Jesus who "was made flesh and dwelt among us" of John 1:14
Is the word a "God" of John 1:1c?
If Jesus is "the word" and the word was a "God", then in what way was Jesus divine or a God?
Is there some way in which Jesus can be divine and yet be subservient to a Father?


Clear
φυακσετζδρω

 

[TiggerII]

YoursTrue Christians teach & Believe in ONE God! Jesus is God... The ONE!

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.
John 8;12 When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

It's the JW's that have the many gods! Jesus is "A" god meaning one of many!

............................................

God and gods
Notice how many non-JWs understand that 'a god' and 'gods' can be used for God-serving persons.

The NIV Study Bible, Zondervan, 1985 clearly recognizes the truth about the lesser meaning of theos and elohim ('a god'):

"In the language of the OT ... rulers and judges, as deputies of the heavenly King, could be given the honorific title ‘god’ ... or be called ‘son of God’.” - footnote for Ps. 82:1.

And, in the footnote for Ps. 45:6, this trinitarian study Bible tells us: “In this psalm, which praises the [Israelite] king ..., it is not unthinkable that he was called ‘god’ as a title of honor (cf. Isa. 9:6).”

The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Zondervan, 1986, tells us:

“The reason why judges are called ‘gods’ in Ps. 82 is that they have the office of administering God’s judgment as ‘sons of the Most High’. In context of the Ps. the men in question have failed to do this.... On the other hand, Jesus fulfilled the role of a true judge as a ‘god’ and ‘son of the Most High’.” - Vol. 3, p. 187.

The highly respected (and highly trinitarian) W. E. Vine tells us:

“The word [theos, ‘god’ or ‘God’] is used of Divinely appointed judges in Israel, as representing God in His authority, John 10:34” - p. 491, An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words.

B. W. Johnson's People's New Testament says for John 10:34-36:

"Is it not written in your law. In Psa. 82. I said, Ye are gods? It was there addressed to judges. Christ's argument is: If your law calls judges gods, why should I be held guilty of blasphemy for saying that I am the Son of God? Sanctified. Set apart." - http://www.gospelcom.net/eword/comments/john/johnson/john10.htm
Young’s Analytical Concordance of the Bible, Eerdmans, 1978 Reprint, “Hints and Helps to Bible Interpretation”:

“65. GOD - is used of any one (professedly) MIGHTY, whether truly so or not, and is applied not only to the true God, but to false gods, magistrates, judges, angels, prophets, etc., e.g. - Exod. 7:1; 15:11; 21:6; 22:8, 9;...Ps. 8:5; 45:6; 82:1, 6; 97:7, 9...John 1:1; 10:33, 34, 35; 20:28....”

Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, Abingdon, 1974 printing,

“430. [elohim]. el-o-heem’; plural of 433; gods in the ordinary sense; but spec. used (in the plur. thus, esp. with the art.) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, ... x (very) great, judges, x mighty.” - p. 12, “Hebrew and Chaldee Dictionary.”

The New Brown-Driver-Briggs-Gesenius Hebrew-English Lexicon, 1979, Hendrickson, p. 43:

Elohim: “a. rulers, judges, either as divine representatives at sacred places or as reflecting divine majesty and power.... b. divine ones, superhuman beings including God and angels.... c. angels Ps. 97 7 ...”
Angels are clearly called gods (elohim) at Ps. 8:5, 6. We know this because this passage is quoted at Heb. 2:6, 7, and there the word “angels” is used (in place of elohim in the OT) in NT Greek.

The trinitarian New American Bible, St. Joseph ed., 1970, says in a footnote for Ps. 8:6 -

“The angels: in Hebrew, elohim, which is the ordinary word for ‘God’ or ‘the gods’; hence the ancient versions generally understood the term as referring to heavenly spirits [angels].”

Some of these (mostly) trinitarian sources which admit that the Bible actually describes men who represent God (judges, Israelite kings, etc.) and God’s angels as gods include:

1. Young’s Analytical Concordance of the Bible, “Hints and Helps...,” Eerdmans, 1978 reprint;

2. Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, #430, Hebrew and Chaldee Dict., Abingdon, 1974;

3. New Bible Dictionary, p. 1133 (angels, judges), Tyndale House Publ., 1984;

4. Today’s Dictionary of the Bible, p. 208 (angels, judges), Bethany House Publ., 1982;

5. Hastings’ A Dictionary of the Bible, p. 217, Vol. 2;

6. The New Brown-Driver-Briggs-Gesenius Hebrew-English Lexicon, p. 43, Hendrickson publ.,1979;

7. Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, #2316 (4.), Thayer, Baker Book House, 1984 printing;

8. The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, p. 132, Vol. 1; and p. 1265, Vol. 2, Eerdmans, 1984;

9. The NIV Study Bible, footnotes for Ps. 45:6; Ps. 82:1, 6; and Jn 10:34; Zondervan, 1985;

10. New American Bible, St. Joseph ed., footnote for Ps. 45:7; 82:1; Jn 10:34; 1970 ed.;

11. A. T. Robertson, Word Pictures, Vol. 5, pp. 188-189;

12. William G. T. Shedd, Dogmatic Theology, Vol. 1, pp. 317, 324, Nelson Publ., 1980 printing;

13. Murray J. Harris, Jesus As God, p. 202, (angels, judges, kings) Baker Book House, 1992;

14. William Barclay, The Gospel of John, V. 2, Daily Study Bible Series, pp. 77, 78, Westminster Press, 1975;

15. The New John Gill Exposition of the Entire Bible (John 10:34 and Ps. 82:6);

16. The Fourfold Gospel (Note for John 10:35);

17. Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible - Jamieson, Fausset, Brown (John 10:34-36);

18. Matthew Henry Complete Commentary on the Whole Bible (Ps. 82:6-8 and John 10:35);

19. John Wesley's Explanatory Notes on the Whole Bible (Ps. 82:1).

20. Theological Dictionary of the New Testament ('Little Kittel'), - p. 328, Eerdmans Publishing Co., 1985.

21. The Expositor’s Greek Testament, pp. 794-795, Vol. 1, Eerdmans Publishing Co.

22. The Amplified Bible, Ps. 82:1, 6 and John 10:34, 35, Zondervan Publ., 1965.

23. Barnes' Notes on the New Testament, John 10:34, 35.

24. B. W. Johnson's People's New Testament, John 10:34-36.

25. The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Zondervan, 1986, Vol. 3, p. 187.

26. Fairbairn’s Imperial Standard Bible Encyclopedia, p. 24, vol. III, Zondervan, 1957 reprint.

27. Theological Dictionary, Rahner and Vorgrimler, p. 20, Herder and Herder, 1965.

28. Pastor Jon Courson, The Gospel According to John.

29. Vincent’s New Testament Word Studies, John 10:36.

30. C. J. Ellicott, John 10:34, Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers.

(Also John 10:34, 35 - CEV; TEV; GodsWord; The Message; NLT; NIRV)

And, of course, the highly respected and highly popular Hellenic Jewish writer, Philo, had the same understanding for “God”/“a god” about the same time the NT was written.

And the earliest Christians like the highly respected NT scholar Origen (see DEF note #1) and others - - including Tertullian; Justin Martyr; Hippolytus; Clement of Alexandria; Theophilus (p. 9, DEF study); the writer of “The Epistle to Diognetus”; and even hyper-trinitarians St. Athanasius and St. Augustine - - also had this understanding for “a god.”

 

[Dogknox20]

1) No one is obligated to accept a position supported by fake scripture offered by Dogknox20
I think it is dishonest for Dogknox20 to offer fake versions of John 1:18 to readers to support his position.
I do not think individuals should create or offer fake text to support a position.
No reader is obligated to believe in a claim supported by fake scripture.


Having said that I agree with readers who note that :
2) Incarnate Jesus was “the Word” referred to in John 1:14

1)I agree that John 1:14 which says “…the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us and we saw his glory. The glory as the only begotten (of) the Father full of grace and truth.” is, in early Christian tradition, referring to Jesus. Jesus was “the Word”.



3) The “Word” (Jesus) referred to in John 1:1c in early Christianity was, in some manner divine, or God-like, or a God, or The God of the old testament.

Johns' witness is that “In the beginning was THE word. And the Word was in the beginning with THE God. And THE word was A God (or THE God – either translation is fine with me)
John 1:1c seems to be saying that the word was, somehow either “a” or “the” God, or was, in some way divine. This is not to say Jesus is the same as his Father.

It is the details are what are difficult to ferret out.
Such as, in what manner is the Word being referred to as “a God’ (or the God depending upon which translation one uses).
If the debaters could agree regarding what John is witnessing to, perhaps more progress and agreement can be made in this debate.




4) Can debaters come to some basic and discrete agreement on the text of the O.P. rather than cut and paste repeated phrases?

Perhaps debaters can agree on basic points of the O.P.
Is Jesus "the Word" of John 1:1c?
Is "the Word" the incarnate Jesus who "was made flesh and dwelt among us" of John 1:14
Is the word a "God" of John 1:1c?
If Jesus is "the word" and the word was a "God", then in what way was Jesus divine or a God?
Is there some way in which Jesus can be divine and yet be subservient to a Father?


Clear
φυακσετζδρω

.
Christians have ALWAYS believed "Jesus is God"! And only One GOD! CRY....
Clear cry and complain all you want you cannot change history!

Satan had people worshipping many gods in the old testament... Satan himself wants to be worshiped as God!
Satan was defeated by the Cross, it was by the Cross that Jesus used to destroy death by dying and restore life by rising!

Satan the Anti-Christ wants man to again worship many gods and he would never ever put crosses in any of his churches!

The JW's worship many gods proven by history... The JW has added the letter "A" to their bible so it reads...
....................In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was "A" god.................

This letter "A" can only mean more then one or many gods! The JW is NOT Christian; Christians believe in ONE GOD: Christians reject Satan!
The JW's also reject the cross they do not use the cross as a symbol of love and salvation as HISTORY shows Christians use the CROSS they embrace the Cross! Christians do not reject the Cross as the JW!
Christians reject the Anti-Christ!

 

[Clear]

What is worse, adding the single letter "a" to create a grammatically sentence or adding 32 incorrect letters to support a doctrine with false text?

Dogknox20 complained : “The JW has added the letter "A" to their bible so it reads...
....................In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was "A" god.................”

While I am fine with either translation, I find it quite hypocritical that you complain the Jehovahs Witnesses added a single, grammatically correct letter to a text while you add 32 (thirty two) letters to create a false text that now says : “No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.”

Who is being more hypocritical, the one who adds one letter to create a grammatically correct sentence or another who adds 32 (THIRTY TWO) letters to create a false sentence and tries to pass that off as "authentic" to influence readers?

@Dogknox20, the Church of Constantine was never the same as the original church of Jesus and creating false and erroneous text to create the appearance of legitimacy doesn’t work in the age of educated people who can either read greek or look up the authentic text for themselves.

Christians to not need to feel any obligation at all to accept the church of constantine, but if they are seeking Christianity, then they should seek the gathering/ekkesia/church of Jesus Christ instead.


As an aside Dogknox20, I LIKE your point about the Word being divine ("the" God or "a" God john 1:1c) and the Word being made flesh and living among us (john 1:14) indicating Jesus WAS the Word that John 1:1c referred to. I think this specific point is good logic.



Clear
φυακσεδρσεω

 

[TiggerII]

.
Christians have ALWAYS believed "Jesus is God"! And only One GOD! CRY....
Clear cry and complain all you want you cannot change history!

Satan had people worshipping many gods in the old testament... Satan himself wants to be worshiped as God!
Satan was defeated by the Cross, it was by the Cross that Jesus used to destroy death by dying and restore life by rising!

Satan the Anti-Christ wants man to again worship many gods and he would never ever put crosses in any of his churches!

The JW's worship many gods proven by history... The JW has added the letter "A" to their bible so it reads...
....................In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was "A" god.................

This letter "A" can only mean more then one or many gods! The JW is NOT Christian; Christians believe in ONE GOD: Christians reject Satan!
The JW's also reject the cross they do not use the cross as a symbol of love and salvation as HISTORY shows Christians use the CROSS they embrace the Cross! Christians do not reject the Cross as the JW!
Christians reject the Anti-Christ!

................................................................
Cardinal Newman was “one of the most influential English Catholics of all time ... universally revered at the time of his death.” - The Columbia Viking Desk Encyclopedia, 1968, v. 2, p. 758.

Cardinal Newman wrote that the Christian creeds before Constantine’s time (he was Emperor from 306 to 337 A.D.) did not make any mention of a trinity understanding.

“They made mention indeed of a Three; but that there is any mystery in the doctrine, that they are coequal, co-eternal, all increate, all omnipotent, all incomprehensible, is not stated, and never could be gathered from them.” - The Development of Christian Doctrine, pp. 15-16.

The first Christians were all Jews. They had come to believe the apostles’ message that Jesus was the promised Saviour of God’s people. ‘Jesus is the Messiah (Christ)’ summed up all that the Jews were called upon to accept. .... But all early Christian theology was Jewish - pp. 101, 102, The History of Christianity (trinitarian), Lion.

Consequently, the Early Church was primarily Jewish and existed within Judaism. - p. 59, Christianity Through the Centuries, Cairns (trinitarian), Zondervan Publ. (trinitarian), 1977 ed.

In [the first century] churches were still regarded as synagogues, whose members .... professed monotheism in the same terms as did the Jews. They used the Hebrew Scriptures, and they took messianism, the eschatology (even angelology), and the ethics of Judaism for granted... - pp. 121-122, The Rise of Christianity, W. H. C. Frend (trinitarian), Fortress Press (trinitarian), 1985.

The leaders of Judaism simply did not allow those within their religion to teach or believe in any other God. If Christians had believed this most blasphemous trinitarian (or even “binitarian”) “knowledge” of God, the Jews would have killed them immediately. At the very least they would have been driven out at once. And, if they miraculously had been allowed to exist along with the other Jews, there would have been nothing that would have been more emphatically written and taught during that period than the blasphemous “God” of the Christians (and the equally loud defense of a “trinity” God by the Christians themselves)! But there were no such teachings, writings, or defenses by the Jews or by the Christians. And there was not even a mention of such a thing by the contemporary pagan writers who wrote about those Christians and those Jews!

“Moreover, It may be questioned whether any Ante-nicene [before 325 A.D.] father distinctly affirms either the numerical Unity or the Coequality of the Three Persons; except perhaps the heterodox Tertullian, and that chiefly in a work written after he had become a Montanist” - pp 17-18, Cardinal Newman, The Development of Christian Doctrine.

“It is hard to avoid the conclusion that the Christian theologians of the second and third centuries, even theologians of the rank of Origen...came to see the Logos [the Word, Christ] as a god of second rank.” - The Encyclopedia of Religion, Macmillan Publ., 1987, Vol. 9, p. 15.

But when trinitarian translators find Jesus called theos (“a god”) in these earliest writings, they most often translate it as “God” instead!

So, after more than 1600 years of trinitarian dominance, recopying, redefinition, rewording, and selective translating, it should not be surprising that the trinitarian translations of the existing copies of the manuscripts of those early Christian writers will at times appear trinitarian.

What would be very surprising would be, given the above conditions, that there would be any support for a non-trinitarian doctrine still left in modern trinitarian translations of the writings of these earliest Christians!

We can see from the very early creeds that the churches of that time were not trinitarian. Now let's see if any of that truth still remains in the trinitarian-reworked letters of the Apostolic Fathers and the Ante-Nicene Fathers.

Trinitarian scholar, minister, and missionary, H. R. Boer admits: The very first Christians to really discuss Jesus’ relationship to God in their writings were the Apologists.

“Justin and the other Apologists therefore taught that the Son is a creature. He is a high creature, a creature powerful enough to create the world, but nevertheless, a creature. In theology this relationship of the Son to the Father is called Subordinationism. The Son is subordinate, that is, secondary to, dependent upon, and caused by the Father.” - p. 110, A Short History of the Early Church, Eerdmans (trinitarian), 1976.

Other respected trinitarian scholars agree.

“Before the Council of Nicaea (AD 325) all theologians viewed the Son as in one way or another subordinate to the Father.” - pp. 112-113, Eerdman’s Handbook to the History of Christianity (trinitarian), 1977; and p. 114, The History of Christianity, A Lion Handbook, Lion Publishing, 1990 revised ed.

“The formulation ‘One God in three persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian Dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers [those very first Christians who had known and been taught by the Apostles and their disciples], there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.” - New Catholic Encyclopedia, p. 299, v. 14, 1967.

Alvan Lamson is especially straightforward:

“The modern popular doctrine of the Trinity ... derives no support from the language of Justin [Martyr]: and this observation may be extended to all the ante-Nicene Fathers; that is, to all Christian writers for three centuries after the birth of Christ. It is true, they speak of the Father, Son, and ... Holy Spirit, but not as co-equal, not as one numerical essence, not as Three in One, in any sense now admitted by Trinitarians. The very reverse is the fact.” - Alvan Lamson, The Church of the First Three Centuries.
(TBC)

 

[TiggerII]

DOGKNOX: "Christians have ALWAYS believed 'Jesus is God'!"
.......................................................................
Clement of Rome (wrote c. 96 A.D.)

1 Clement is:

“the earliest and most valuable surviving example of Christian literature outside the New Testament” and “was widely known and held in very great esteem by the early Church. It was publicly read in numerous churches, and regarded as being almost on a level with the inspired scriptures.” - pp. 17, 22, Early Christian Writings, Staniforth, Dorset Press, New York.

Clement, St., Pope of Rome (ca. 92-101) .... St. Clement is looked upon as the first of the ‘Apostolic Fathers.’ - p. 177, An Encyclopedia of Religion, Ferm (ed.), 1945.

Clement of Rome wrote:

“[Grant unto us, Lord {Jehovah, Father}] that we may set our hope on Thy Name {Jehovah - Ps. 83:18, KJV, Ex. 3:15, NEB, LB, MLB} which is the primal source of all creation ... that we may know thee, who alone abides Highest in the lofty, Holy in the holy ... Let all the Gentiles know that Thou art God alone, and Jesus Christ is Thy Son, and we are Thy people and the sheep of Thy pasture.” - 59:2-4, The Apostolic Fathers, Lightfoot and Harmer, noted trinitarian scholars. [Information in special brackets { } added by me.]

We see, then, that the witness of the very first and most important of the Apostolic Fathers is clearly not trinitarian! But what about the later Ante-Nicene Fathers (ca. 160-300 A.D.)?

Justin Martyr (c. 100-165 A.D.)

Justin, whom the trinitarian The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church (p. 770) called “the most outstanding of the ‘Apologists,’” wrote:

God alone is unbegotten and incorruptible, and therefore He is God, but all other things after him are created and corruptible {Justin has just concurred that the world was begotten by God} .... take your stand on one Unbegotten, and say this is the Cause of all. - Ante-Nicene Fathers (ANF ) 1:197 (‘Dialogue’).

But,

Jesus Christ is the only proper Son who has been begotten by God, being His Word and first-begotten - ANF 1:170 (‘Apology’).

And thus do we also, since our persuasion by the Word, stand aloof from them (i.e., the demons), and follow the only unbegotten God through His Son - ANF 1:167 (‘Apology’).

Respected church historian, Robert M. Grant (trinitarian), likewise notes concerning the above:

“[Justin] ... identifies the God whom Christians worship as ‘most true and Father of justice.... And he goes on to speak of reverencing and worshiping ‘the Son who came from him and taught us these things, and the army of other good angels who follow and resemble him, as well as the prophetic spirit.’” - p. 59 [quoting from “The First Apology of Justin,” Ch. VI]. “This is why Justin could place the ‘army of angels’ ahead of the ‘prophetic spirit,’ as we have seen: for him the Spirit was not ... personal [in fact Grant calls the Spirit ‘it’ - p. 63].” - p. 62, Greek Apologists of the Second Century, The Westminster Press, 1988.

Notice how worship (or ‘obeisance’) is given to the Son “and the host of other good angels.” Again Justin Martyr calls the Son, the Word, an angel! - See the REAPS study.

Justin Martyr’s ‘Apology’ and ‘Dialogue {With Trypho}’ “are preserved but in a single ms (Cod. Paris, 450, A.D. 1364)” - Britannica, 14th ed.

Irenaeus (c. 140-203 A.D.)

“... neither the prophets, nor the apostles, nor the Lord Christ in His own person, did acknowledge any other Lord or God, but the God and Lord supreme .... the Lord Himself handing down to His disciples, that He, the Father, is the only God and Lord, who alone is God and ruler of all; it is incumbent on us to follow ... their testimonies to this effect.” (ANF, 1:422, ‘Against Heresies’)

“Such, then, are the first principles of the Gospel: that there is one God, the Maker of this universe; He who was also announced by the prophets ... which proclaim the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and ignore any other God or Father except Him.” (ANF, 1:428, ‘Against Heresies’)

“If, for instance, anyone asks, ‘what was God doing before He made the world?’ we reply that the answer to such a question .... remains with God, and it is not proper for us to aim at bringing forward foolish, rash, and blasphemous suppositions [in reply to it] .... For consider all ye who invent such opinions, since the Father Himself is alone called God ... since, moreover, the Scriptures acknowledge Him alone as God” - (ANF, 1:400, ‘Against Heresies’)

“... no one is termed God by the Apostles when speaking for themselves, except Him who truly is God, the Father of our Lord.” - (ANF, 1:553, ‘Against Heresies’)

The trinitarian translators of ANF wrote in their Introductory Note to Irenaeus’ Against Heresies: “The text [of Against Heresies] ... is often most uncertain. .... After the text has been settled according to the best judgment [trinitarian, of course] which can be formed, the work of translation remains; and that is, in this case, a matter of no small difficulty. Irenaeus, even in the original Greek, is often a very obscure writer. .... And the Latin version adds to these difficulties of the original, by being itself of the most barbarous character. In fact, it is often necessary to make a conjectural retranslation [trinitarian, of course] into Greek, in order to have some inkling of what the author wrote. .... We have endeavoured to give as close and accurate a translation of the work as possible, but there are not a few passages in which a guess [trinitarian, of course] can only be made as to the probable meaning.” - ANF 1:311-312. Obviously, if a trinitarian, even a scrupulously honest trinitarian, makes a “conjectural retranslation” or a “guess ... as to the probable meaning,” it will be a trinitarian guess or “conjectural retranslation”!

And the fact that trinitarians have ‘copied’ all the many copies for centuries leading up to the 1 or 2 existing copies, leads one to suspect parts of them which appear to support the deity of Jesus.

 

[TiggerII]

DOGKNOX: "Christians have ALWAYS believed 'Jesus is God'!"

….………………………………………..

Even the “Jesus is God” Bishops at the Nicene Council (325 A.D.) were greatly outnumbered by those who denied it.

Constantine, still a pagan emperor, was concerned not with religious truth, but about the unity of his empire. He wanted the great rift between the extremely influential Alexandria (and its Western “satellites”) and the entire Eastern portion of Christianity (the original home of Christianity) to be healed at once! Furthermore, "he detested Judaism" (p. 75, When Jesus became God and see p. 499. Rise of Christianity, Frend) and, of course, the God which Judaism, which included the first Christians, had always worshiped. He therefore called a council of the bishops of the Church to work out a solution that would benefit his empire.

Three views were advocated at this council. (Actually, the real question to be decided at this council was only the first step by Alexandrian philosophizers [and their Roman sympathizers] toward establishing a new doctrine of God. The question was only, “Is Jesus absolutely equal to the Father: all-powerful, always existing, and of the very same substance, or not?” The introduction of a “third person” as being equal to God was not yet being attempted officially.)

(1) Basically, Athanasius, a believer in Jesus as God, from Alexandria, said,

“Yes, Jesus is absolutely equal to the Father. He has always existed beside the Father. He is of the very same substance or essence (Homoousios) as the Father. He is absolute God and must be worshiped as God.”

There was a very small minority of Western Bishops at the council who agreed with him (those most influenced by Alexandria and Neo-Platonism, including the "Jesus is God" Bishop Hosius, Constantine’s personal advisor).

(2) There was another (much larger) minority of Bishops at the council who were led by Arius. Basically, Arius said,

“Jesus is not God, although he could be called ‘divine.’ He was made by God (the Father alone) so there was a time when he did not exist! He was made out of nothing and is, therefore, of an entirely different substance (or Essence) from that of God. He must not be worshiped as the One True God.”

(Apparently Arius also believed that in his heavenly pre-existence Jesus had been the highest of angels. But this was not an invention of Arius. It was a much earlier Christian tradition which Arius was upholding - p. 50, A Short History of Christian Doctrine, Bernard Lohse, Fortress Press, 1985 - but the more recent "Jesus is God" believers had rejected it.

“Traditional Christian interpretation has held that this ‘angel’ [the Angel of Jehovah] was a preincarnate manifestation of Christ as God’s Messenger-Servant.” - Gen. 16:7 footnote, NIV Study Bible, Zondervan, 1985.)

(3) The vast majority (more than 200 bishops) of those at the Council of Nicaea were led by Eusebius of Caesarea. These were the Semi-Arians (see The American People’s Encyclopedia, 1954, p. 8-207). They strongly agreed with the Arians that Jesus was not God and must not be worshipped as God! They believed that Jesus did not always exist. Basically, they said,

“The Father (God alone) generated Jesus (not out of nothing as Arius believed, but) from a substance similar (Homoi ousios) to His own. He is not equal to God, but is subordinate to Him, even though he is above all the rest of creation. Jesus must not be worshiped as the One True God.”

"By contrast [with the Arians and semi-Arians], the strongest anti-Arians experienced their present as a sharp break with the past. It was they who demanded, in effect, that Christianity be "updated" by blurring or even obliterating the long-accepted distinction between the Father and the Son.

"For young militants like Athanasius, however, ... Judaism was an offensive, anti-Christian faith." - p.74, When Jesus Became God, Harcourt, 1999.

Notwithstanding the vast majority of bishops' unshakably strong insistence upon a non-trinitarian view of God, the determination and power of the Emperor- supported (and Alexandrian and Neo-Platonist-influenced) bishops of the West prevailed after months of stormy debates (and threats). From then on, the Church of Rome as supported by the leaders of the Roman Empire ruled in religious matters. Severe punishments were the reward for those opposing them.

“The decisions of Nicaea were really the work of a minority, and they were misunderstood and disliked by many [even those] who were not adherents of Arius. In particular the terms [‘out of the substance’ - exousia] and homoousios [‘of the same substance’] aroused opposition, on the grounds that they were unscriptural, novel, ... and erroneous metaphysically.” - p. 41, Documents of the Christian Church, 2nd ed., Bettenson, 1967, Oxford University Press.

“But [the Council of Nicaea’s] formula of the Son’s ‘consubstantiality’ [homoousios] with the Father was slow to gain general acceptance, despite [Emperor] Constantine’s efforts to impose it.” - p. 72, The Oxford Illustrated History of Christianity, John McManners, Oxford University Press, 1992.

 

[JerryMyers]

Jesus is Man and Jesus is God.... Only God is Good! Our goal is to be united with God! To be united with God we MUST be united with Jesus!

Yes, ONLY God is Good and Jesus CLEARLY rebuked the man for calling him ‘Good’ because Jesus himself NEVER believed he is God to be called ‘Good’!

The fact that YOU agreed ‘Only God is Good’ and yet failed to understand why Jesus rebuked the man for calling him Good tells us you, Dogknox20 is a man and Dogknox20 is NONSENSE…. Only Dogknox20 is NONSENSE!

Our goal is to be united with the ONE and ONLY TRUE God! To be united with the ONE and ONLY TRUE God we MUST reject NONSENSE!

The word is Jesus!
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was with God in the beginning.
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
The word is Jesus!
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
The WORD is Jesus!

REPEATING NONSENSE… YET AGAIN!!!

You can brainwash yourself like a lunatic cult-follower by chanting ‘Jesus is God…Jesus is God…’ day in and day out, BUT that does NOT change the fact Jesus IS NOT God and ‘the Word (of God)’ is NOT an exclusive reference to Jesus!!

In the English-translated Bibles today, ‘W/word’ is translated from the Greek ‘logos’.

The word “logos”, Strong’s G3056 outlined ‘logos’ as, among others: of speech, as a word uttered by a living voice, the sayings of God and its use as respect to the MIND alone - reason, the mental faculty of thinking, meditating, reasoning, calculating. Thus, the definition of ‘logos’ itself is based on two basic lines of thought. One is the mind and products of the mind like “reason,” (so “logic” is related to logos) and the other is the expression of that reason as a “word,” “saying,” or “command”.

The Bible itself demonstrates the wide range of meaning ‘logos’ has. Here’s a few examples of how the original Greek ‘logos’ have been translated in the Bible:

speaking; words you say (Rom. 15:18, “what I have said and done”).
a statement you make (Luke 20:20, “they might catch him in some statement).
a question (Matt. 21:24, “I will also ask you one question”).
preaching (1 Tim. 5:17, “especially those whose work is preaching and teaching).
command (Gal. 5:14, “the entire law is summed up in a single command”).
proverb; saying (John 4:37, “thus the saying, ‘One sows, and another reaps’”).
message; instruction; proclamation (Luke 4:32, “his message had authority”).
assertion; declaration; teaching (John 6:60, “this is a hard teaching”).

All the above underlined italic words are translated from the Greek word “logos” just as the ‘Word’ in John 1.

You think ‘Logos’ is only found in John 1??? Saying the ‘Word’ (Logos) in John 1 is Jesus reflects your INABILITY to understand the Greek’s usage of ‘logos’ as it was translated in your Bible.

18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

You forgot or choose to ignore that in Isaiah 45:5, God Himself had CLEARLY said besides Him, there’s no other God!! If God Himself had made THAT claim of who He is, then, any other sayings that said or implied that there’s ANOTHER God are just NONSENSE!

You think the authors/writers of the Book of John or any other Books, can abrogate the Words of God in Isaiah 45:5??? THINK!! As I said your FALSE belief is what Satan wants you to believe!!!

Jesus created all things.... God created all things

That’s what people, like you, who cannot understand the Greek's usage of ‘logos’, a masculine noun, will say and believe – poor soul!!

Praise the Lord.
Praise the Lord from the heavens;
praise him in the heights above.
2 Praise him, all his angels;
praise him, all his heavenly hosts.
3 Praise him, sun and moon;
praise him, all you shining stars.
4 Praise him, you highest heavens
and you waters above the skies.
5 Let them praise the name of the Lord,
for at his command they were created,
6 and he established them for ever and ever—
he issued a decree that will never pass away.

Psalm 148 is about the One and Only True God, NOT about Jesus. Are you taking the readers here as fools, hoping they will read your above quote (with no passage name) as a reference to Jesus??? You ARE NOT just talking NONSENSE, YOU ARE ALSO a man of ZERO INTEGRITY!!

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
6 The angel said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God who inspires the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place.”

As I have said earlier if God Himself had CLEARLY said besides Him, there’s no other God, then, any other sayings that said or implied that there’s ANOTHER God are just NONSENSE!!!

Paul himself may not see Jesus as God because before Paul wrote “The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation” – Colossians 1:15, Paul refers to God exclusively as the Father of Jesus Christ - “We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, ….” – Colossians 1:3. If Paul believed Jesus is God then he would have said “We always thank our Lord and God Jesus Christ…” BUT he did NOT say that now did he??

I also notice most of the time you like to quote verses WITHOUT indicating from which passage you picked that. The reason you did not name those passages is that it would be easier for you to cherry-pick verses and then cut and paste them to present those verses AS IF they came from the same passage and therefore they are in the same context!!

Here, clearly, you cherry-picked Colossians 1:15, then Revelation 22:16 and you conclude your argument with Revelation 22:6! Then, cunningly, you present those cherry-picked verses as one flowing passage as if they are ALL in the same context!! What a FAKE!!

Why do you need to resort to such low tactics to present your arguments??? Are you are inspired by Satan or your FALSE preachers/church told you so???

I sincerely hope your low tactics and your NONSENSE are your own and you are NOT representing the Trinitarian community as a whole - if you are, then you are a poor representative to the Trinitarian community!!

Here’s the fact - by continuing to present NONSENSE, you are just exposing yourself as A FAKE, Dogknox20! As I said earlier, YOU ARE A MAN of ZERO INTEGRITY!!

 

[Soapy]

............................................

God and gods
Notice how many non-JWs understand that 'a god' and 'gods' can be used for God-serving persons.

The NIV Study Bible, Zondervan, 1985 clearly recognizes the truth about the lesser meaning of theos and elohim ('a god'):

"In the language of the OT ... rulers and judges, as deputies of the heavenly King, could be given the honorific title ‘god’ ... or be called ‘son of God’.” - footnote for Ps. 82:1.

And, in the footnote for Ps. 45:6, this trinitarian study Bible tells us: “In this psalm, which praises the [Israelite] king ..., it is not unthinkable that he was called ‘god’ as a title of honor (cf. Isa. 9:6).”

The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Zondervan, 1986, tells us:

“The reason why judges are called ‘gods’ in Ps. 82 is that they have the office of administering God’s judgment as ‘sons of the Most High’. In context of the Ps. the men in question have failed to do this.... On the other hand, Jesus fulfilled the role of a true judge as a ‘god’ and ‘son of the Most High’.” - Vol. 3, p. 187.

The highly respected (and highly trinitarian) W. E. Vine tells us:

“The word [theos, ‘god’ or ‘God’] is used of Divinely appointed judges in Israel, as representing God in His authority, John 10:34” - p. 491, An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words.

B. W. Johnson's People's New Testament says for John 10:34-36:

"Is it not written in your law. In Psa. 82. I said, Ye are gods? It was there addressed to judges. Christ's argument is: If your law calls judges gods, why should I be held guilty of blasphemy for saying that I am the Son of God? Sanctified. Set apart." - http://www.gospelcom.net/eword/comments/john/johnson/john10.htm
Young’s Analytical Concordance of the Bible, Eerdmans, 1978 Reprint, “Hints and Helps to Bible Interpretation”:

“65. GOD - is used of any one (professedly) MIGHTY, whether truly so or not, and is applied not only to the true God, but to false gods, magistrates, judges, angels, prophets, etc., e.g. - Exod. 7:1; 15:11; 21:6; 22:8, 9;...Ps. 8:5; 45:6; 82:1, 6; 97:7, 9...John 1:1; 10:33, 34, 35; 20:28....”

Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, Abingdon, 1974 printing,

“430. [elohim]. el-o-heem’; plural of 433; gods in the ordinary sense; but spec. used (in the plur. thus, esp. with the art.) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, ... x (very) great, judges, x mighty.” - p. 12, “Hebrew and Chaldee Dictionary.”

The New Brown-Driver-Briggs-Gesenius Hebrew-English Lexicon, 1979, Hendrickson, p. 43:

Elohim: “a. rulers, judges, either as divine representatives at sacred places or as reflecting divine majesty and power.... b. divine ones, superhuman beings including God and angels.... c. angels Ps. 97 7 ...”
Angels are clearly called gods (elohim) at Ps. 8:5, 6. We know this because this passage is quoted at Heb. 2:6, 7, and there the word “angels” is used (in place of elohim in the OT) in NT Greek.

The trinitarian New American Bible, St. Joseph ed., 1970, says in a footnote for Ps. 8:6 -

“The angels: in Hebrew, elohim, which is the ordinary word for ‘God’ or ‘the gods’; hence the ancient versions generally understood the term as referring to heavenly spirits [angels].”

Some of these (mostly) trinitarian sources which admit that the Bible actually describes men who represent God (judges, Israelite kings, etc.) and God’s angels as gods include:

1. Young’s Analytical Concordance of the Bible, “Hints and Helps...,” Eerdmans, 1978 reprint;

2. Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, #430, Hebrew and Chaldee Dict., Abingdon, 1974;

3. New Bible Dictionary, p. 1133 (angels, judges), Tyndale House Publ., 1984;

4. Today’s Dictionary of the Bible, p. 208 (angels, judges), Bethany House Publ., 1982;

5. Hastings’ A Dictionary of the Bible, p. 217, Vol. 2;

6. The New Brown-Driver-Briggs-Gesenius Hebrew-English Lexicon, p. 43, Hendrickson publ.,1979;

7. Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, #2316 (4.), Thayer, Baker Book House, 1984 printing;

8. The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, p. 132, Vol. 1; and p. 1265, Vol. 2, Eerdmans, 1984;

9. The NIV Study Bible, footnotes for Ps. 45:6; Ps. 82:1, 6; and Jn 10:34; Zondervan, 1985;

10. New American Bible, St. Joseph ed., footnote for Ps. 45:7; 82:1; Jn 10:34; 1970 ed.;

11. A. T. Robertson, Word Pictures, Vol. 5, pp. 188-189;

12. William G. T. Shedd, Dogmatic Theology, Vol. 1, pp. 317, 324, Nelson Publ., 1980 printing;

13. Murray J. Harris, Jesus As God, p. 202, (angels, judges, kings) Baker Book House, 1992;

14. William Barclay, The Gospel of John, V. 2, Daily Study Bible Series, pp. 77, 78, Westminster Press, 1975;

15. The New John Gill Exposition of the Entire Bible (John 10:34 and Ps. 82:6);

16. The Fourfold Gospel (Note for John 10:35);

17. Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible - Jamieson, Fausset, Brown (John 10:34-36);

18. Matthew Henry Complete Commentary on the Whole Bible (Ps. 82:6-8 and John 10:35);

19. John Wesley's Explanatory Notes on the Whole Bible (Ps. 82:1).

20. Theological Dictionary of the New Testament ('Little Kittel'), - p. 328, Eerdmans Publishing Co., 1985.

21. The Expositor’s Greek Testament, pp. 794-795, Vol. 1, Eerdmans Publishing Co.

22. The Amplified Bible, Ps. 82:1, 6 and John 10:34, 35, Zondervan Publ., 1965.

23. Barnes' Notes on the New Testament, John 10:34, 35.

24. B. W. Johnson's People's New Testament, John 10:34-36.

25. The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Zondervan, 1986, Vol. 3, p. 187.

26. Fairbairn’s Imperial Standard Bible Encyclopedia, p. 24, vol. III, Zondervan, 1957 reprint.

27. Theological Dictionary, Rahner and Vorgrimler, p. 20, Herder and Herder, 1965.

28. Pastor Jon Courson, The Gospel According to John.

29. Vincent’s New Testament Word Studies, John 10:36.

30. C. J. Ellicott, John 10:34, Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers.

(Also John 10:34, 35 - CEV; TEV; GodsWord; The Message; NLT; NIRV)

And, of course, the highly respected and highly popular Hellenic Jewish writer, Philo, had the same understanding for “God”/“a god” about the same time the NT was written.

And the earliest Christians like the highly respected NT scholar Origen (see DEF note #1) and others - - including Tertullian; Justin Martyr; Hippolytus; Clement of Alexandria; Theophilus (p. 9, DEF study); the writer of “The Epistle to Diognetus”; and even hyper-trinitarians St. Athanasius and St. Augustine - - also had this understanding for “a god.”

Tigger, keep telling them:
“God” is a title and a superlative adjective.

Obviously ‘superlative’ and ‘adjective’ are not words they are aware of so they lay those aside…

Yes, ANYONE who is ‘Majestic’ above all others by context … is A GOD over his rivals.

Motor Racing, Grand Prix: Lewis Hamilton is A GOD of his sport. At THIS TIME he is THE GOD of his sport… there is no higher greater better performing person in his class (see the CONTEXT, there?)

Ok, great posts but need more in-depth detail … not fir dogknox but fir others reading your posts!!

 

[Dogknox20]

................................................................
Cardinal Newman was “one of the most influential English Catholics of all time ... universally revered at the time of his death.” - The Columbia Viking Desk Encyclopedia, 1968, v. 2, p. 758.

Cardinal Newman wrote that the Christian creeds before Constantine’s time (he was Emperor from 306 to 337 A.D.) did not make any mention of a trinity understanding.

“They made mention indeed of a Three; but that there is any mystery in the doctrine, that they are coequal, co-eternal, all increate, all omnipotent, all incomprehensible, is not stated, and never could be gathered from them.” - The Development of Christian Doctrine, pp. 15-16.

The first Christians were all Jews. They had come to believe the apostles’ message that Jesus was the promised Saviour of God’s people. ‘Jesus is the Messiah (Christ)’ summed up all that the Jews were called upon to accept. .... But all early Christian theology was Jewish - pp. 101, 102, The History of Christianity (trinitarian), Lion.

Consequently, the Early Church was primarily Jewish and existed within Judaism. - p. 59, Christianity Through the Centuries, Cairns (trinitarian), Zondervan Publ. (trinitarian), 1977 ed.

In [the first century] churches were still regarded as synagogues, whose members .... professed monotheism in the same terms as did the Jews. They used the Hebrew Scriptures, and they took messianism, the eschatology (even angelology), and the ethics of Judaism for granted... - pp. 121-122, The Rise of Christianity, W. H. C. Frend (trinitarian), Fortress Press (trinitarian), 1985.

The leaders of Judaism simply did not allow those within their religion to teach or believe in any other God. If Christians had believed this most blasphemous trinitarian (or even “binitarian”) “knowledge” of God, the Jews would have killed them immediately. At the very least they would have been driven out at once. And, if they miraculously had been allowed to exist along with the other Jews, there would have been nothing that would have been more emphatically written and taught during that period than the blasphemous “God” of the Christians (and the equally loud defense of a “trinity” God by the Christians themselves)! But there were no such teachings, writings, or defenses by the Jews or by the Christians. And there was not even a mention of such a thing by the contemporary pagan writers who wrote about those Christians and those Jews!

“Moreover, It may be questioned whether any Ante-nicene [before 325 A.D.] father distinctly affirms either the numerical Unity or the Coequality of the Three Persons; except perhaps the heterodox Tertullian, and that chiefly in a work written after he had become a Montanist” - pp 17-18, Cardinal Newman, The Development of Christian Doctrine.



“It is hard to avoid the conclusion that the Christian theologians of the second and third centuries, even theologians of the rank of Origen...came to see the Logos [the Word, Christ] as a god of second rank.” - The Encyclopedia of Religion, Macmillan Publ., 1987, Vol. 9, p. 15.

But when trinitarian translators find Jesus called theos (“a god”) in these earliest writings, they most often translate it as “God” instead!

So, after more than 1600 years of trinitarian dominance, recopying, redefinition, rewording, and selective translating, it should not be surprising that the trinitarian translations of the existing copies of the manuscripts of those early Christian writers will at times appear trinitarian.

What would be very surprising would be, given the above conditions, that there would be any support for a non-trinitarian doctrine still left in modern trinitarian translations of the writings of these earliest Christians!

We can see from the very early creeds that the churches of that time were not trinitarian. Now let's see if any of that truth still remains in the trinitarian-reworked letters of the Apostolic Fathers and the Ante-Nicene Fathers.

Trinitarian scholar, minister, and missionary, H. R. Boer admits: The very first Christians to really discuss Jesus’ relationship to God in their writings were the Apologists.

“Justin and the other Apologists therefore taught that the Son is a creature. He is a high creature, a creature powerful enough to create the world, but nevertheless, a creature. In theology this relationship of the Son to the Father is called Subordinationism. The Son is subordinate, that is, secondary to, dependent upon, and caused by the Father.” - p. 110, A Short History of the Early Church, Eerdmans (trinitarian), 1976.

Other respected trinitarian scholars agree.

“Before the Council of Nicaea (AD 325) all theologians viewed the Son as in one way or another subordinate to the Father.” - pp. 112-113, Eerdman’s Handbook to the History of Christianity (trinitarian), 1977; and p. 114, The History of Christianity, A Lion Handbook, Lion Publishing, 1990 revised ed.

“The formulation ‘One God in three persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian Dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers [those very first Christians who had known and been taught by the Apostles and their disciples], there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.” - New Catholic Encyclopedia, p. 299, v. 14, 1967.

Alvan Lamson is especially straightforward:

“The modern popular doctrine of the Trinity ... derives no support from the language of Justin [Martyr]: and this observation may be extended to all the ante-Nicene Fathers; that is, to all Christian writers for three centuries after the birth of Christ. It is true, they speak of the Father, Son, and ... Holy Spirit, but not as co-equal, not as one numerical essence, not as Three in One, in any sense now admitted by Trinitarians. The very reverse is the fact.” - Alvan Lamson, The Church of the First Three Centuries.
(TBC)

.
I reply Cardinal Newman was a Christian... Cardinal Newman a very educated man believed in The Trinity! He believed and taught "Jesus is God"!
Christians have grown in their understanding of truth! Cardinal Newman wrote about the History of Christianity!
tigger2 You mention the council of Nicaea (AD 325) it was at this council they removed "Arius" as a heretic a False Teacher!

2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.

This Scripture Prophecy proved true with Arius; He was AMONG Christians until he was removed as a "False Teacher"!
This prophesy tells you "The Christian Church is "The Way Of Truth"!
tigger2 This prophesy is telling you "Your Church cannot be the way of truth!" You and your church believe as Arius The False Teacher believed and taught

 

[Dogknox20]

What is worse, adding the single letter "a" to create a grammatically sentence or adding 32 incorrect letters to support a doctrine with false text?

Dogknox20 complained : “The JW has added the letter "A" to their bible so it reads...
....................In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was "A" god.................”

While I am fine with either translation, I find it quite hypocritical that you complain the Jehovahs Witnesses added a single, grammatically correct letter to a text while you add 32 (thirty two) letters to create a false text that now says : “No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.”

Who is being more hypocritical, the one who adds one letter to create a grammatically correct sentence or another who adds 32 (THIRTY TWO) letters to create a false sentence and tries to pass that off as "authentic" to influence readers?

@Dogknox20, the Church of Constantine was never the same as the original church of Jesus and creating false and erroneous text to create the appearance of legitimacy doesn’t work in the age of educated people who can either read greek or look up the authentic text for themselves.

Christians to not need to feel any obligation at all to accept the church of constantine, but if they are seeking Christianity, then they should seek the gathering/ekkesia/church of Jesus Christ instead.


As an aside Dogknox20, I LIKE your point about the Word being divine ("the" God or "a" God john 1:1c) and the Word being made flesh and living among us (john 1:14) indicating Jesus WAS the Word that John 1:1c referred to. I think this specific point is good logic.



Clear
φυακσεδρσεω

Clear cry and complain all you want you cannot change history!
Historical fact.. Christians worship Jesus; "Jesus is God!" NOT....

Clear not one of the 60 plus scripture scholars have the letter "A" before the word God in John 1!... NO NOT ONE!
What is worse? Adding the letter "A" tells us "JW's believe in more then one God!" FACT: Pagans believe in more then one God.. Satan wants to be worshiped as God! Satan would push for a belief in more then one god! Logic says.. Satan would downplay Jesus' divinity to build up and encourage his followers to worship himself!

What is worse? Nothing is worse.. It changes the whole meaning of the text! IF.....

Clear if the JW's restored the text to how it was written it would point them to Jesus' divinity and salvation In Jesus! If they restored the text to how it was first written it would tell us "They are Christian and not Pagan"!

 

[Dogknox20]

Yes, ONLY God is Good and Jesus CLEARLY rebuked the man for calling him ‘Good’ because Jesus himself NEVER believed he is God to be called ‘Good’!

The fact that YOU agreed ‘Only God is Good’ and yet failed to understand why Jesus rebuked the man for calling him Good tells us you, Dogknox20 is a man and Dogknox20 is NONSENSE…. Only Dogknox20 is NONSENSE!

Our goal is to be united with the ONE and ONLY TRUE God! To be united with the ONE and ONLY TRUE God we MUST reject NONSENSE!


REPEATING NONSENSE… YET AGAIN!!!

You can brainwash yourself like a lunatic cult-follower by chanting ‘Jesus is God…Jesus is God…’ day in and day out, BUT that does NOT change the fact Jesus IS NOT God and ‘the Word (of God)’ is NOT an exclusive reference to Jesus!!

In the English-translated Bibles today, ‘W/word’ is translated from the Greek ‘logos’.

The word “logos”, Strong’s G3056 outlined ‘logos’ as, among others: of speech, as a word uttered by a living voice, the sayings of God and its use as respect to the MIND alone - reason, the mental faculty of thinking, meditating, reasoning, calculating. Thus, the definition of ‘logos’ itself is based on two basic lines of thought. One is the mind and products of the mind like “reason,” (so “logic” is related to logos) and the other is the expression of that reason as a “word,” “saying,” or “command”.

The Bible itself demonstrates the wide range of meaning ‘logos’ has. Here’s a few examples of how the original Greek ‘logos’ have been translated in the Bible:

speaking; words you say (Rom. 15:18, “what I have said and done”).
a statement you make (Luke 20:20, “they might catch him in some statement).
a question (Matt. 21:24, “I will also ask you one question”).
preaching (1 Tim. 5:17, “especially those whose work is preaching and teaching).
command (Gal. 5:14, “the entire law is summed up in a single command”).
proverb; saying (John 4:37, “thus the saying, ‘One sows, and another reaps’”).
message; instruction; proclamation (Luke 4:32, “his message had authority”).
assertion; declaration; teaching (John 6:60, “this is a hard teaching”).

All the above underlined italic words are translated from the Greek word “logos” just as the ‘Word’ in John 1.

You think ‘Logos’ is only found in John 1??? Saying the ‘Word’ (Logos) in John 1 is Jesus reflects your INABILITY to understand the Greek’s usage of ‘logos’ as it was translated in your Bible.


You forgot or choose to ignore that in Isaiah 45:5, God Himself had CLEARLY said besides Him, there’s no other God!! If God Himself had made THAT claim of who He is, then, any other sayings that said or implied that there’s ANOTHER God are just NONSENSE!

You think the authors/writers of the Book of John or any other Books, can abrogate the Words of God in Isaiah 45:5??? THINK!! As I said your FALSE belief is what Satan wants you to believe!!!


That’s what people, like you, who cannot understand the Greek's usage of ‘logos’, a masculine noun, will say and believe – poor soul!!


Psalm 148 is about the One and Only True God, NOT about Jesus. Are you taking the readers here as fools, hoping they will read your above quote (with no passage name) as a reference to Jesus??? You ARE NOT just talking NONSENSE, YOU ARE ALSO a man of ZERO INTEGRITY!!


As I have said earlier if God Himself had CLEARLY said besides Him, there’s no other God, then, any other sayings that said or implied that there’s ANOTHER God are just NONSENSE!!!

Paul himself may not see Jesus as God because before Paul wrote “The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation” – Colossians 1:15, Paul refers to God exclusively as the Father of Jesus Christ - “We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, ….” – Colossians 1:3. If Paul believed Jesus is God then he would have said “We always thank our Lord and God Jesus Christ…” BUT he did NOT say that now did he??

I also notice most of the time you like to quote verses WITHOUT indicating from which passage you picked that. The reason you did not name those passages is that it would be easier for you to cherry-pick verses and then cut and paste them to present those verses AS IF they came from the same passage and therefore they are in the same context!!

Here, clearly, you cherry-picked Colossians 1:15, then Revelation 22:16 and you conclude your argument with Revelation 22:6! Then, cunningly, you present those cherry-picked verses as one flowing passage as if they are ALL in the same context!! What a FAKE!!

Why do you need to resort to such low tactics to present your arguments??? Are you are inspired by Satan or your FALSE preachers/church told you so???

I sincerely hope your low tactics and your NONSENSE are your own and you are NOT representing the Trinitarian community as a whole - if you are, then you are a poor representative to the Trinitarian community!!

Here’s the fact - by continuing to present NONSENSE, you are just exposing yourself as A FAKE, Dogknox20! As I said earlier, YOU ARE A MAN of ZERO INTEGRITY!!

.
JerryMyers Jesus is God..... Only God is Good! Why did they call Jesus good?! Jesus is pointing out to them, Only God is perfect.. And Jesus is Perfect!
The Man Jesus is living in a fallen world.... Jesus dies as a fallen man.. Because Jesus is PERFECT "Without sin" he rises; it is sin that brings death Jesus being PERFECT was sinless and rises!

JerryMyers John 1 tells you Jesus is GOD! Cry and complain all you want "Christians have always taught "Jesus is God"!

Jesus is my Salvation Luke 1 tells you Jesus is God!
the mother of my Lord should come to me?
&
“Praise be to the Lord, the God of Israel,
because he has come to his people and redeemed them.

Matthew 1 tells you Jesus is God!
they will call him Immanuel” (which means “God with us”).

Mark 1 tells you Jesus is God!
“I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,” says the Lord Almighty.

JerryMyers DID YOU SEE IT? prepare the way before me.
ME Means GOD!
John prepares the way before Jesus!
&
A voice of one calling:
“In the wilderness prepare
the way for the Lord;
make straight in the desert
a highway for our God.

JerryMyers WHO is GOD? Jesus is God!..... a highway for our God.

 

[Dogknox20]

Yes, ONLY God is Good and Jesus CLEARLY rebuked the man for calling him ‘Good’ because Jesus himself NEVER believed he is God to be called ‘Good’!

The fact that YOU agreed ‘Only God is Good’ and yet failed to understand why Jesus rebuked the man for calling him Good tells us you, Dogknox20 is a man and Dogknox20 is NONSENSE…. Only Dogknox20 is NONSENSE!

Our goal is to be united with the ONE and ONLY TRUE God! To be united with the ONE and ONLY TRUE God we MUST reject NONSENSE!


REPEATING NONSENSE… YET AGAIN!!!

You can brainwash yourself like a lunatic cult-follower by chanting ‘Jesus is God…Jesus is God…’ day in and day out, BUT that does NOT change the fact Jesus IS NOT God and ‘the Word (of God)’ is NOT an exclusive reference to Jesus!!

In the English-translated Bibles today, ‘W/word’ is translated from the Greek ‘logos’.

The word “logos”, Strong’s G3056 outlined ‘logos’ as, among others: of speech, as a word uttered by a living voice, the sayings of God and its use as respect to the MIND alone - reason, the mental faculty of thinking, meditating, reasoning, calculating. Thus, the definition of ‘logos’ itself is based on two basic lines of thought. One is the mind and products of the mind like “reason,” (so “logic” is related to logos) and the other is the expression of that reason as a “word,” “saying,” or “command”.

The Bible itself demonstrates the wide range of meaning ‘logos’ has. Here’s a few examples of how the original Greek ‘logos’ have been translated in the Bible:

speaking; words you say (Rom. 15:18, “what I have said and done”).
a statement you make (Luke 20:20, “they might catch him in some statement).
a question (Matt. 21:24, “I will also ask you one question”).
preaching (1 Tim. 5:17, “especially those whose work is preaching and teaching).
command (Gal. 5:14, “the entire law is summed up in a single command”).
proverb; saying (John 4:37, “thus the saying, ‘One sows, and another reaps’”).
message; instruction; proclamation (Luke 4:32, “his message had authority”).
assertion; declaration; teaching (John 6:60, “this is a hard teaching”).

All the above underlined italic words are translated from the Greek word “logos” just as the ‘Word’ in John 1.

You think ‘Logos’ is only found in John 1??? Saying the ‘Word’ (Logos) in John 1 is Jesus reflects your INABILITY to understand the Greek’s usage of ‘logos’ as it was translated in your Bible.


You forgot or choose to ignore that in Isaiah 45:5, God Himself had CLEARLY said besides Him, there’s no other God!! If God Himself had made THAT claim of who He is, then, any other sayings that said or implied that there’s ANOTHER God are just NONSENSE!

You think the authors/writers of the Book of John or any other Books, can abrogate the Words of God in Isaiah 45:5??? THINK!! As I said your FALSE belief is what Satan wants you to believe!!!


That’s what people, like you, who cannot understand the Greek's usage of ‘logos’, a masculine noun, will say and believe – poor soul!!


Psalm 148 is about the One and Only True God, NOT about Jesus. Are you taking the readers here as fools, hoping they will read your above quote (with no passage name) as a reference to Jesus??? You ARE NOT just talking NONSENSE, YOU ARE ALSO a man of ZERO INTEGRITY!!


As I have said earlier if God Himself had CLEARLY said besides Him, there’s no other God, then, any other sayings that said or implied that there’s ANOTHER God are just NONSENSE!!!

Paul himself may not see Jesus as God because before Paul wrote “The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation” – Colossians 1:15, Paul refers to God exclusively as the Father of Jesus Christ - “We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, ….” – Colossians 1:3. If Paul believed Jesus is God then he would have said “We always thank our Lord and God Jesus Christ…” BUT he did NOT say that now did he??

I also notice most of the time you like to quote verses WITHOUT indicating from which passage you picked that. The reason you did not name those passages is that it would be easier for you to cherry-pick verses and then cut and paste them to present those verses AS IF they came from the same passage and therefore they are in the same context!!

Here, clearly, you cherry-picked Colossians 1:15, then Revelation 22:16 and you conclude your argument with Revelation 22:6! Then, cunningly, you present those cherry-picked verses as one flowing passage as if they are ALL in the same context!! What a FAKE!!

Why do you need to resort to such low tactics to present your arguments??? Are you are inspired by Satan or your FALSE preachers/church told you so???

I sincerely hope your low tactics and your NONSENSE are your own and you are NOT representing the Trinitarian community as a whole - if you are, then you are a poor representative to the Trinitarian community!!

Here’s the fact - by continuing to present NONSENSE, you are just exposing yourself as A FAKE, Dogknox20! As I said earlier, YOU ARE A MAN of ZERO INTEGRITY!!

.
YOUR WORDS....
As I have said earlier if God Himself had CLEARLY said besides Him, there’s no other God, then, any other sayings that said or implied that there’s ANOTHER God are just NONSENSE!!!

The bible of the JW's; New World Translation.. Points to this NONSENSE! (below)
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was A god.

JerryMyers Need I say any more... You stuck your foot into your own mouth!

Not one of the over sixty plus Ligament Scripture Scholars have the latter "A" in John 1:1! NO NOT ONE....The letter "A" was added 1800 years after the Christian Church was established by Jesus!
Christians teach and Believe Jesus is God! Satan and his followers (His Churches) teach "Jesus is NOT God"! They teach opposite to what Christians teach.. Satan is Anti-Christ!

 

[YoursTrue]

If you properly define the meaning of the word, ‘God’ or ‘A God’, then you would understand fully the difference and able to explain to others.

‘God’ is a TITLE…. It is like ‘King’, ‘Majesty’, ‘Supreme One’…

It is also an ADJECTIVE and a SUPERLATIVE ADJECTIVE at that. Therefore it is like: ‘Greatest’, ‘Most high’, ‘All powerful’, ‘Heroic’, ‘Noblest’…

But all these must be taken IN CONTEXT of the position in which it is used.

Therefore Jesus is THE MOST HIGH …OF HUMANITY (there is the CONTEXT)

But YHWH is “MOST HIGH’ of ‘ALL WHOM ARE CALLED ‘superlative adjective’.”

Jesus told the Jews that he DID NOT CALL HIMSELF ‘God’…!

He DIDNT call himself even ‘A GOD’!!

He told them that he ‘ONLY CALLED GOD HIS FATHER’!!!

And, in fact, he continued saying that THE GOD, his Father, the one whom the Jews believed in, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, himself called those ‘HEROES OF HUMANITY who received the word of this same God, “GODS”’.

Analyse the claim.l:

• ‘Heroes’ : ‘Gods’
• Context: ‘Of humanity’
• ‘Gods’: ‘Heroes of humanity’

Join the dots. It turns a complete circle of truth… each claim validating every other claim.

• Some Pagans BELIEVED themselves to be ‘Gods’
• Some Pagans believed they were Gods because they claimed they were sins of Gods
• Some pagan claimed that their Gods were in the wood and stone idols that they made to show material vision of their ethereal Gods!

And yet, even as THE ALMIGHTY (of all Almighties) called ‘mighty ones (of humanity)’ ‘GODs’ He, Jesus himself, did not even call himself anything of a superlative adjective! But only that God the almighty was his Father.

The tragic trinitarian twist tries to tempt the truth:

• How can it be that there could be a claim that Jesus was calling himself ‘God’ when he said ‘I DID NOT SAY I WAS GOD’?

So says the corrupters of scriptures!!

Better definition descriptions use the word ‘Deity’ to describe the entities that are called ‘Gods’.

This shows that the deities (the actual Being, whether spirit or flesh, wood or stone) is granted the TITLE of ‘God’… ‘GOD’ and ‘Gods’ are not the BEING itself but rather it is the TITLE of the Being.

And, in describing their Deity, they (as we as Christians also do) the highest superlative adjectives are given to them (Him).

So, as long as the CONTEXT is adhered to and fully understood by all (and that is the problem!!) then attributing a title of ‘God’ to someone of something is perfectly useful:

• ‘A judge is GOD in his courtroom’ for he is the RULER, the LAW (Maker/upholder), he is the FIRST AND LAST AUTHORITY (context:->) IN HIS COURTROOM
• ‘A Father in a well established household is GOD of his household’
• ‘A Principal is GOD of his School… because he upholds and provides the laws and directions in which his school moves’

Notice that in all these examples the ‘God’ is never the ULTIMATE GOD because there is ALWAYS a higher authority above them. For instance, even a judge is subject to federal laws above him!

So CONTEXT MATTERS.

Yes, context most certainly matters. So -- most people generally know what the word 'god' means - usually a super high power, over and above the one referring to him (or her, perhaps) as 'god.' (or goddess) Right? Perhaps we can look up definitions of what the word "god" means. Often spoken of in the male sense.
Here's one case, very interesting in my opinion, and see how you respond to it.
I looked up the word God in several dictionaries but came across this interesting statement in the simple English wikipedia, which starts out by saying --
"This article is about "God" in the context of monotheism. For the general concept of "a god", see Deity."
So interestingly enough, it speaks of God in the context of monotheism and a general concept in terms of deity. There's more, but how do you feel about that point?

 

[JerryMyers]

JerryMyers Jesus is God..... Only God is Good! Why did they call Jesus good?! Jesus is pointing out to them, Only God is perfect.. And Jesus is Perfect!
The Man Jesus is living in a fallen world.... Jesus dies as a fallen man.. Because Jesus is PERFECT "Without sin" he rises; it is sin that brings death Jesus being PERFECT was sinless and rises!

Talking NONSENSE…yet again!!

People can think and call Jesus anything they want BUT what REALLY MATTERS is what Jesus thinks and believe of himself!!

In Luke 18:19, Jesus rebuked the man for calling him ‘good’ because to Jesus, ONLY God is good and he’s NOT God to be called ‘good’!!
Your screw-up thinking logic CANNOT even understand simple verse like Luke 18:19, it’s no wonder that you would think and believe Jesus is God when there’s NOT a single verse in the whole Bible where God or His prophet, Jesus ever said or implied Jesus is God!! PROVE ME WRONG!!

You seem to care more about what people said rather than what God Almighty and His prophet Jesus said!! You are trying to preach the words of other people as scripture! YOU should heed the words of Jesus - “In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men” – Matthew 15:9

JerryMyers John 1 tells you Jesus is GOD! Cry and complain all you want "Christians have always taught "Jesus is God"!

Dogknox20, the author/writer of John 1 is NOT God nor is he even a prophet, so heed the words of Jesus in Matthew 15:9 - “In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men”

Jesus is my Salvation Luke 1 tells you Jesus is God!
the mother of my Lord should come to me?
& “Praise be to the Lord, the God of Israel,
because he has come to his people and redeemed them.
Matthew 1 tells you Jesus is God!
they will call him Immanuel” (which means “God with us”).
Mark 1 tells you Jesus is God!
“I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,” says the Lord Almighty.

NOPE! Luke 1, Matthew 1, Mark 1 passages DID NOT tell you Jesus is God or worship him as God!! Satan told you Jesus is God because Satan DO NOT want you to worship the One and Only True God!!

YOU should heed the words of Jesus - “In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men” – Matthew 15:9

JerryMyers DID YOU SEE IT? prepare the way before me.
ME Means GOD!
John prepares the way before Jesus!
&
A voice of one calling:
“In the wilderness prepare
the way for the Lord;
make straight in the desert
a highway for our God.
JerryMyers WHO is GOD? Jesus is God!..... a highway for our God.

Firstly, Mark 1 passage DID NOT read “……. prepare the way before me’, Mark 1 read “…… prepare the way before YOU”. You are confused between Mark 1 and Malachi 3!!

Secondly, ‘Prepare the way BEFORE me’ DOES NOT mean prepare the way FOR me!!
Dogknox20, DID YOU SEE IT? There’s a BIG difference between ‘BEFORE me’ and ‘FOR me’!!

The FACT is Jesus is NOT God, NEVER WAS, NEVER IS, and NEVER WILL BE, BUT it is Satan who wants you to believe Jesus is God!

Why you choose to follow Satan and NOT the eternal life as preached by Jesus is beyond my understanding. How can you ever find eternal life when you don’t even know who the true God is??!! Didn’t Jesus himself tell you in John 17:3, “Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the ONLY true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent” ??!

Your relentless chanting of ‘Jesus is God….Jesus is God…..’ in your effort to convince yourself and trying to preach the words of other people as scripture will ONLY fool yourself and further expose yourself as a follower of Satan, NOT a follower of Jesus Christ. Jesus NEVER worshiped and prayed to himself (as God) but, he ONLY worships and prays to the One and Only True God – so, why are you NOT emulating Jesus in his worship and in his prayers???