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We can't choose to believe?

sandy whitelinger

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
ImmortalFlame said:
There's a difference between CHANGING beliefs and CHOOSING beliefs. Beliefs can change for all sorts of reasons, but the actual change itself is not a choice - it is the outcome of subconscious mental processes. You cannot change a belief purely as a voluntary act of will.
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Maybe you can't change your beliefs at will, but I can and have.
 
Kueid

Kueid

Avant-garde
ImmortalFlame said:
How? How can you CHOOSE that which you hold to be true?
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It's easier when you don't have an opinion formed, when you face a new fork in life and have two propositions that are equally true to you at the moment. When that happens the choosing is easier and it's like when you choose to respond an comment in the RF forum. Think for a moment HOW you make that choice and the answer will be clear, I hope.
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Willamena said:
A personal fact is some fact you hold that is indisputably the truth. Even if others verify it (and if your personal experience is questionable, remember that you've personally verified all these other people exist), it's still a fact that you hold. There is nothing inherently flawed about our personal experiences. Some can be mistaken, but 'missed' takes happen. The bottom line is that we can and do hold facts.


You can verify it further all you want, but that's further to the initial verification, which is objectivity. A belief is justified for simply having good reason to have it (good reason usually is just truth).


To know is for something to actually be true that you also happen to justifiably think is true. All bachelors are male. So, you'd better get out there and start independently verifying that every bachelor is male (a more difficult task in this modern world). I'll just wait here.
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Linguistic, man-made truths aren't related to what we are talking about. All bachelors are single because that is what the word bachelor means. We are discussing personal experience unverified by anyone or anything.
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
SpeaksForTheTrees said:
Radiation the force behind evolution and now in theory the rate of earths radiation levels should be lowering since creation slowing the rate of evolution .
Radiation pollution will ultimately force mutations not squeneced into the gene with unreliable consequence will distort science , kinda ironic .
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Evolutionary mutations are caused by mistakes in DNA duplication process, not radiation.
 
Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
leibowde84 said:
Linguistic, man-made truths aren't related to what we are talking about. All bachelors are single because that is what the word bachelor means. We are discussing personal experience unverified by anyone or anything.
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People don't make truth.
 
ImmortalFlame

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Kueid said:
It's easier when you don't have an opinion formed, when you face a new fork in life and have two propositions that are equally true to you at the moment. When that happens the choosing is easier and it's like when you choose to respond an comment in the RF forum. Think for a moment HOW you make that choice and the answer will be clear, I hope.
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This doesn't make any sense. If you evaluate two positions as being equally likely, then you still can't simply "choose" to believe one or the other - because you already believe the two positions as being equally likely. For instance, you can hold that when you flip a coin it is equally likely to land on heads or tails, and you can even choose to place a bet on whether it will land on heads or tails, but there is no way you can choose to believe (ie: actually assess as true) that it will land on either heads or tails because you have already assessed that it is an equally likely probability of being the other.

Please give me an example of a belief that you have "chosen". In other words, something that you consciously and voluntarily decided to accept as true.
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
q konn said:
Many people verify their religious beliefs.
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Ok, but that is irrelevant here. We are discussing the need for verification when it comes to personal experience due to the unreliable nature of subjective experience in general, not verification for religious beliefs.
 
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