• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

We should make Canada the 51st State!

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Psh, if anyone claims that private corporations either a.) don't profit off increased incarcerations and b.) consistently lobby to maintain vigilant laws is desperate not to acknowledge it.
Evidence that they influence public policy to the claimed extent?
Do you dismiss the link between voters electing simplistic law &
order candidates & laws which put so many in prison?

That's not to say government profits aren't brutal, or corrupt, etc.
But their isn't anyone you can point to who profits off of it.
Perhaps you see profit as evil, & lack of profit as good.
But there can be good in profit making companies, & great evil among
those who don't seek profit. Must I point to China, N Korea & the old
USSR to show the dangers of proffered altruism?
This obsession with the boogeyman of privately run prisons can delude
one into ignoring the culpability of leaders one votes for.
 

Huey09

He who struggles with God
Psh, if anyone claims that private corporations either a.) don't profit off increased incarcerations and b.) don't consistently lobby to maintain vigilant laws is desperate not to acknowledge it.

That's not to say government profits aren't brutal, or corrupt, etc. But their isn't anyone you can point to who profits off of it.

Thank for not mocking me as a conspiracy theorist simply because I don't see a democratic president having all the blame. Its annoying that people put anything that involves corporations with the Illuminati(which I don't believe in) or think the Koch Brothers are just very wealthy good intention businessmen.
 

dust1n

Zindīq
Evidence that they influence public policy to the claimed extent?
Do you dismiss the link between voters electing simplistic law &
order candidates & laws which put so many in prison?

Perhaps you see profit as evil, & lack of profit as good.
But there can be good in profit making companies, & great evil among
those who don't seek profit. Must I point to China, N Korea & the old
USSR to show the dangers of proffered altruism?
This obsession with the boogeyman of privately run prisons can delude
one into ignoring the culpability of leaders one votes for.

I'll provide evidence when I get off work.

Um, I'm not unaware of how crony capitalism works. Elected officials participate in what is essentially a two way street.
 

dust1n

Zindīq
Thank for not mocking me as a conspiracy theorist simply because I don't see a democratic president having all the blame. Its annoying that people put anything that involves corporations with the Illuminati(which I don't believe in) or think the Koch Brothers are just very wealthy good intention businessmen.

Oh, don't worry about. It's the classic tactic of people to dismiss a conspiracy theory by painting them the same as all other crazy, ridiculous conspiracy theory. As if conspiracies have never taken place before. :sarcastic
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I'll provide evidence when I get off work.

Um, I'm not unaware of how crony capitalism works. Elected officials participate in what is essentially a two way street.
What I argue is that when we voters see such corruption, eg, Obama's
relationship with Wall St, we should toss'm out of office...not re-elect'm.
If pols get the message that we'll oust any who push a misguided law &
order agenda, then we'll see change.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
I said once source my friend. I have more

The Prison Industry in the United States: Big Business or a New Form of Slavery? | Global Research

21st-Century Slaves: How Corporations Exploit Prison Labor | Alternet

Would you like me to quote the articles or do you have time to read them?they're not that long
Hahahaha. How about something that is not part of the hard left echo chamber.

For example, from "GlobalResearch's About page":
The Global Research website was established on the 9th of September 2001, two days before the tragic events of September 11. Barely a few days later, Global Research had become a major news source on the New World Order and Washington’s “war on terrorism”. Since September 2001, we have established an extensive archive of news articles, in-depth reports and analysis on issues which are barely covered by the mainstream media.
In an era of media disinformation, our focus has essentially been to center on the “unspoken truth”.
Heck, just look at some of their other topics. :) Then again, perhaps I shouldn't encourage that.

And Alternut is well, AlterNut.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
What makes you think they'd buy it?
Americastan would likely have to attack & defeat Canuckistan,
& force'm to take Michiganistan as punishment.
I am confident saying that we do not want Michigan.

Don't make us come down there and burn down the White House again, son.
 

Huey09

He who struggles with God
Hahahaha. How about something that is not part of the hard left echo chamber.

For example, from "GlobalResearch's About page":
Heck, just look at some of their other topics. :) Then again, perhaps I shouldn't encourage that.

And Alternut is well, AlterNut.

If all you're gonna do is behave like a child while I'm trying to be civil and have a discussion can you at least stick to "nyah nyah boo boo"? It an oldie but goodie :facepalm:

Military Turns To Prison Labor For $100 Million In Uniforms -- At $2-Per-Hour Wages
Demanufacturing Wal-Mart: Profiting From Prison Labor | Al Norman

Now if after this you simply say "I'm right you're wrong" it might be better to agree to disagree instead of testing your rapier wit on me what do you say?
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I am confident saying that we do not want Michigan.

Don't make us come down there and burn down the White House again, son.

We would be so much the envy of Canada, but that would work only if we could send you our Republicans.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
If all you're gonna do is behave like a child while I'm trying to be civil and have a discussion can you at least stick to "nyah nyah boo boo"? It an oldie but goodie :facepalm:

Military Turns To Prison Labor For $100 Million In Uniforms -- At $2-Per-Hour Wages
Demanufacturing Wal-Mart: Profiting From Prison Labor*|*Al Norman

Now if after this you simply say "I'm right you're wrong" it might be better to agree to disagree instead of testing your rapier wit on me what do you say?
I suppose what I object to is the obvious spin doctoring in each of these articles you have posted. Do you think the inmates should be making $15.00 an hour? Do you think it is wrong to imprison people for breaking the law? What is your solution? BTW: This is all way, way, way off topic, but then, this is RF.
 

Huey09

He who struggles with God
I suppose what I object to is the obvious spin doctoring in each of these articles you have posted. Do you think the inmates should be making $15.00 an hour?

First, that sounds like the spinning you accuse me of. Second, I don't want prisoners to be used as a cheap alternative for corporations and businesses to make an easy buck. You know how many jobs making military uniforms could have provided? Not just military uniforms but other productions in places like Walmart.

Do you think it is wrong to imprison people for breaking the law? What is your solution?

A strange and almost insulting question. Yes I believe murderers, rapists and white collar criminals who rob others should be put away. But I thought prison was suppose to reform you? Perhaps our government can find a way to help ex cons get a livable job away from their criminal environment the way half houses look after drug addicts(although hopefully better than that but I digress) Where do you see that? Give me any statistic that show prisoners who go to jail for offenses are not likely to come back.Another problem I wonder is why possession of marijuana that causes no harm to anyone involved save for its high value as contraband can place you in federal prisons for years with murderers and rapist. What kind of reforming is that? To teach them how to be a felon instead of a war on drugs bystander?
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
First, that sounds like the spinning you accuse me of. Second, I don't want prisoners to be used as a cheap alternative for corporations and businesses to make an easy buck. You know how many jobs making military uniforms could have provided? Not just military uniforms but other productions in places like Walmart.
I agree and think that's fair game. Personally, I would not buy any product that I knew was made in a prison. So let's move to end the practice. The thing is now we have all these inmate sitting around... now what? I'd prefer to see them doing public works myself and not making anyone money.

A strange and almost insulting question.
Um, Ok.

Yes I believe murderers, rapists and white collar criminals who rob others should be put away. But I thought prison was suppose to reform you?
That is the theory, but the execution of the model hasn't been particularly productive to date.

Perhaps our government can find a way to help ex cons get a livable job away from their criminal environment the way half houses look after drug addicts(although hopefully better than that but I digress)
I agree but how do you change from the imperfect model to a more realistic model? As a taxpayer, how much are you willing to pay to see this improved?

Where do you see that?
Apologies. I just got the whiff that you didn't think vast swaths of the prison population should be in jail.

Give me any statistic that show prisoners who go to jail for offenses are not likely to come back.
What? I'm in Canada. We have a revolving door on our prisons and remand centers. Recidivism rates are abysmal and in theory, the only way out of that cycle is through education.

Another problem I wonder is why possession of marijuana that causes no harm to anyone involved save for its high value as contraband can place you in federal prisons for years with murderers and rapist.
It's against Federal Law in virtually all countries on the planet. That's why, though I do agree that incarcerating people for small quantities of pot is mean spirited.

What kind of reforming is that? To teach them how to be a felon instead of a war on drugs bystander?
Well, maybe if they understood that pot wasn't worth the time, they might change their behavior. Another unsavory side to this is that a rather lot of people who find themselves on the wrong side of the law are not the smartest inhabitants on the planet. Education can be a vexing process for such individuals and for educators alike.
 

dust1n

Zindīq
As requested:

Corrections Corporation of America - SourceWatch

CCA and its hired lobbying firms have spent about $21.1 million lobbying Congress and federal agencies from 1998 to August 2014, according to the Center for Responsive Politics (CRP).[12]

At the state level, the company has hired 272 lobbyists in 37 states from 2003 to 2012, according to the National Institute on Money in State Politics.[117]

While additional firms have been used previously, from 2010 to 2013, CCA exclusively hired three outside lobbying firms for its federal lobbying, in addition to their in-house lobbyists. These firms include: McBee Strategic Consulting, Mehlman Vogel Castagnetti Inc., and Akin Gump et al. During this time (as well as in 2008 and 2009), the company's total federal lobbying expenses were around $1 million per year. This was a decline from the years 2004 to 2007, when lobbying expenditures were between $1.9 and $3.4 million per year.[12]

Although 2004 and 2005 were the two years of highest lobbying expenses, 2007 was the third largest spending year, largely because of the seven bills CCA lobbied for or against that year. The bill with the most reports, H.R. 1889, known as the "Private Prison Information Act of 2007," would have required private prisons to be subject to FOIA requests just as federal prisons and correctional facilities are. CCA vehemently opposed the bill. That and all similar bills have either died in or before subcommittee hearings, according to for-profit prison scholar Christopher Petrella.[118] CCA and its hired firms also lobbied heavily against another bill to end the use of private prisons for incarcerating inmates, H.R. 1890 or the "Public Safety Act."[119]

In the first half of 2014, CCA and its hired firms spent $530,000 on lobbying at the federal level, employing 25 lobbyists, 80 percent of whom have "revolving door" connections.[12]

Beyond bills directly impacting the private prison system, CCA has a possible stake in possible immigration reform, when new pathways to citizenship could disrupt the number of people detained in private prisons for their immigration status. A CCA spokesperson denied the company's involvement in immigration reform to The Nation in February 2013,[34] but lobbying reports show its efforts regarding border security bills in 2007-2008, such as the Border Security Act, and appropriations bills for the Department of Homeland Security. In 2014, CCA reported lobbying on bills related to funding for Homeland Security and Immigration and Customs Enforcement.[120]

The Nation wrote of CCA's likely interests regarding immigration reform:
"On the one hand, a pathway to citizenship and legal reforms sought by advocates could reduce the number of immigrants detained by CCA and its competitors in the private prison industry. 'Private prison corporations have an enormous stake in immigration reform,' says Bob Libal, a prison reform advocate with Grassroots Leadership. 'A reform that provides a timely pathway to citizenship without further criminalizing migration would be a huge hit to the industry,' he says."[34] Grassroots Leadership also discussed the actions of CCA's in-house lobbyists on the Department of Homeland Security appropriations bills:[121]

"Bart Velhulst, Jeremy Wiley, and Kelli Cheever, CCA's in-house lobbyists, were paid $1,070,000 in 2011 and $980,000 in 2012. They lobbied on the Department of Homeland Security Appropriations Bill, particularly on provisions related to ICE detention; as well as the House of Representatives and the Senate on homeland security issues related to the private prison industry."[121] At least as recently as 2010, CCA was a member of the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), which has not only promoted model legislation to privatize prisons, but also to put more people in prison through harsh sentencing laws and state-based anti-immigrant legislation.[122] Read more in the "Ties to the American Legislative Exchange Council" section.

Political Contributions


State Spending

CCA and its employees contributed $2.2 million in 28 states from 2003 to 2012, with contributions concentrated in California, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, and Idaho, according to the National Institute on Money in State Politics.[123]
(cont.)
 

dust1n

Zindīq
(cont.)

Federal Spending

In addition to its extensive federal lobbying efforts, CCA has a PAC to disburse donations to federal candidates. From 2002 to July 2014, the CCA PAC contributed $1.67 million to various federal candidates, according to CRP. The majority of CCA's contributions have generally gone to Republican candidates, though Democratic candidates have received over $100,000 from CCA since 2002.[124]

In 2012, the company's Political Action Committee spent $305,957, with 86 percent of the PAC's contributions in federal races going to Republican candidates, according to CRP.[125]

In 2012, a landmark year for extraordinary amounts of campaign money, the PAC's largest contribution went to Kevin McCarthy (R-CA), a longtime advocate of the private sector.[126]

Despite the extraordinary levels of election dollars spent in 2012, the PAC's largest contributions occurred during the 2006 elections, with its largest donation being to Sen. Mike DeWine (R-OH), an incumbent who struggled against fellow GOP challengers when DeWine tried to dub himself as an "independent."[127] In 2004, DeWine had helped CCA acquire a federal contract to operate a prison in Youngstown, Ohio -- a facility which had been closed down in 1997 after dangerous conditions, including 20 stabbings and 2 murders, came to light.[128]

Many political contributions from 2002 onward from the PAC, or from CCA individuals, have largely gone to candidates from Tennessee, Texas, Ohio, and Georgia, according to CRP.[129]

Corrections Corporation of America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

CCA lobbyists have worked to pass or defeat private prison legislation in many localities, including Texas, New York, Illinois and Tennessee.[33] CCA spent $17.4 million lobbying the Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement (ICE), the Office of Management and Budget, the Bureau of Prisons, both houses of Congress, and others between 2002 and 2012; including $1.9 million in campaign contributions.[34][35]

According to the Boston Phoenix, CCA spent more than $2.7 million from 2006 through September 2008 on lobbying for stricter laws.[36] CCA responded that it does not lobby lawmakers to increase jail time or push for longer sentences under any circumstance, noting that it "educates officials on the benefits of public-private partnership but does not lobby on crime and sentencing policies."[34] Among its risk factors listed in its 10-K annual report as required by the SEC, CCA includes the following:

"The demand for our facilities and services could be adversely affected by the relaxation of enforcement efforts, leniency in conviction or parole standards and sentencing practices or through the decriminalization of certain activities that are currently proscribed by our criminal laws. For instance, any changes with respect to drugs and controlled substances or illegal immigration could affect the number of persons arrested, convicted, and sentenced, thereby potentially reducing demand for correctional facilities to house them."[23] At the federal level, the corporation's lobbying focuses largely on immigrant detention. In 2012, CCA spent $1,790,000 lobbying Congress and federal bureaucracies on issues relating to homeland security, law enforcement, immigrant detention, and information disclosure legislation.[37]
 
Last edited:

dust1n

Zindīq
GEO Group's parent company, Wackenhut Corporation, has funded the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC).[29] GEO Group itself is also a member as of 2010, according to In These Times.[30]

While Wackenhut (later GEO) was a member of ALEC's crime Task Force, ALEC pushed legislation to privatize prisons, and at the same time advanced harsh sentencing bills to put more people in prison for more time, particularly "truth-in-sentencing" legislation calling for all violent offenders to serve 85 percent of their sentences before being eligible for release, and "three strikes you're out" bills requiring mandatory life imprisonment for a third felony conviction. These bills became law in a majority of states during the 1990s and early 2000s.

Between 2003 and 2010, ProPublica reports that GEO Group contributed to many candidates who have or had connections to ALEC.[31]

Lobbying

From 2004 to September 2013, GEO spent just over $3 million lobbying the federal government, with its biggest lobbying expenditures in 2010 at $660,000, according to the Center for Responsive Politics (CRP). They also employ two to three lobbying firms a year. Most recently, their additional lobbyists and firms have included Lionel ‘Leo’ Aguirre, Podesta Group, Navigators Global LLC, Public Policy Partners, and Bryan Cave LLP.[120]

Most of the bills GEO Group lobbies for at the federal level are homeland security, immigration, and appropriations bills. For example, in 2013, GEO Group heavily lobbied for H.R. 2217, the Department of Homeland Security Appropriations act, and S. 744, the Border Security, Economic Opportunity and Immigration Modernization Act, according to CRP,[120] because they provided for more funding to border patrol, fences along borders, and more measures. While many other for-profit prison corporations, such as Corrections Corporation of America, try to deny their involvement in anti-immigration and enhanced border security bills, GEO CEO George Zoley admitted the company's political preferences in a 2011 letter to stakeholders:[121]

"At the federal level, initiatives related to border enforcement and immigration detention with an emphasis on criminal alien populations as well as the consolidation of existing detainee populations have continued to create demand for larger-scale, cost efficient facilities."[121] Aguirre, GEO Group’s top lobbyist, has been a lobbyist for the group exclusively since 2008. From 2008 to 2013, Aguirre has received $1.02 million in lobbying income from the company, just over one-third of GEO Group's total lobbying expenditures from 2004 to 2013, according to CRP.[120][122]

An article published by Grassroots Leadership reported that Aguirre lobbied the Department of Homeland Security, ICE, the United States Marshals, the House of Representatives, the Department of Transportation, Department of Labor, and the Department of Justice in 2011 and 2012.[123]

In the states, GEO Group hired 142 lobbyists in 25 states from 2003 to 2012, according to the National Institute on Money in State Politics (NIMSP).[124]

Political Contributions

GEO Group and its employees have made nearly $2.3 million in political contributions to individuals and PACs at the federal level from 2004 to September 2013, according to CRP.[125]

GEO Group created a political action committee called the GEO Group Inc. PAC. The PAC was most active in the 2008 election, with its $353,259 in spending, followed closely by the 2012 election and 2010 election, with $331,425 and $305,580 spent respectively. The PAC raised more funds in the 2012 election cycle -- $470,564 -- than in any previous cycle, according to CRP.[126]

Most recent contributions to candidates and members in 2012 and 2014 include Robert B. Aderholt (R-AL), Henry Cuellar (D-TX), Mike Haridopolos (R-FL), Connie Mack (R-FL), and Andrew Crenshaw (R-FL), according to CRP.[127]

GEO Group and its employees also pumped over $3.2 million into state-level politics in 24 states from 2003 to 2012, including contributions to candidates for office, party committees, and ballot initiatives, according to the National Institute on Money in State Politics.[128]

The Justice Policy Institute wrote in 2011:

"private prison companies tend to concentrate their efforts in specific states, particularly California, Florida, and to a lesser degree, Georgia. Florida, the home of the GEO Group, not only has the second highest private prison population in the country, but has budgetary mandates that certain prison beds be privatized. Attention to California is likely based on the state having the largest incarcerated population, and the existence of a U.S. Supreme Court-order to reduce its overcrowded prison system by as many as 46,000 people over the next two years; private prison companies are offering policymakers a way to transfer, rather than reduce, the number of people they lock up."[9] Two-thirds of GEO Group's state-level spending went to California, Florida, and New Mexico, according to JPI.[9]
 
Last edited:

dust1n

Zindīq
That's not even including a large number of growing private prisons (such as Community Education Corporation), mainly because it is difficult to dig this stuff up once you start talking about small players. I'd have to look at newspapers or something.
 
Top