We should make Canada the 51st State!

[Alceste]

No. I was addressing your concurrence with the private prison conspiracy.
As for the source of slave labor, prisoners are not so productive that it pays to
incarcerate them for that purpose....except perhaps in The Shawshank Redemption.


I wonder when it will start being about reformation.


Aye, it seems the whole country has been & still is headed in a less than optimum direction.

Judges in the US have been caught taking kickbacks from private prison operators to sentence more and longer jail terms. So, there's that. Apart from the illegal stuff, corporate prison operators contribute handsomely to all those "tough on crime" politicians you speak of. Maybe try google before dismissing every allegation of corruption you hear of as a lizard people calibre feat of the imagination.

 

[dust1n]

What I argue is that when we voters see such corruption, eg, Obama's
relationship with Wall St, we should toss'm out of office...not re-elect'm.
If pols get the message that we'll oust any who push a misguided law &
order agenda, then we'll see change.

Well, I agree with ya there, but it's increasingly difficult to throw anyone out of office considering their are only two political groups, who ceaselessly fight to ensure no 3rd party can even get in a televised debate.

That being said, I have incredibly low expectations for the voters of America.

 

[Alceste]

Dustin for the fact bomb win!

 

[dust1n]

Dustin for the fact bomb win!

Heh, thanks.

 

[Revoltingest]

Well, I agree with ya there, but it's increasingly difficult to throw anyone out of office considering their are only two political groups, who ceaselessly fight to ensure no 3rd party can even get in a televised debate.
That being said, I have incredibly low expectations for the voters of America.

With a resigned attitude like, why bother to complain about the prison industrial
complex conspiracy? The real problem is that we get the government we (not
including me) deserve.

 

[Alceste]

For the interested, one of the articles that influenced my opinion on the subject was this one:
How private prisons game the system - Salon.com

There are many others, but they are all much of a muchness.

I'd be happy to read any equally credible arguments from the other side, if you guys actually read stuff before spouting opinions.

 

[Revoltingest]

Judges in the US have been caught taking kickbacks from private prison operators to sentence more and longer jail terms. So, there's that. Apart from the illegal stuff, corporate prison operators contribute handsomely to all those "tough on crime" politicians you speak of. Maybe try google before dismissing every allegation of corruption you hear of as a lizard people calibre feat of the imagination.

You're missing the distinction between isolated corruption (which existed even in gov
run prisons, & is not in dispute) & the claim of a conspiracy which drives public policy
to imprison vast numbers of people.

 

[Alceste]

You're missing the distinction between isolated corruption (which existed even in gov
run prisons, & is not in dispute) & the claim of a conspiracy which drives public policy
to imprison vast numbers of people.

I didn't claim there was a conspiracy. That was one of your famous straw men.

 

[Revoltingest]

Heh, thanks.

Before you start celebrating some kind of win with your amen chorus....
I briefly perused some of your voluminous posts, & noticed that you're citing money
spent on lobbying by prison companies (something not in dispute) without actually
stating what it is they're lobbying for. It doesn't establish a causal relationship
between privatization & increased incarceration. So far, it looks like a Gish Gallop.
Could you cull any portions which address the causal link?

 

[Alceste]

Before you start celebrating some kind of win with your amen chorus....
I briefly perused some of your voluminous posts, & noticed that you're citing money
spent on lobbying by prison companies (something not in dispute) without actually
stating what it is they're lobbying for. It doesn't establish a causal relationship
between privatization & increased incarceration. So far, it looks like a Gish Gallop.
Could you cull any portions which address the causal link?

The salon article I posted quotes several internal documents featuring prison profiteers openly stating that their profits depend on high and growing incarceration rates and long sentences. Some of them moonlight on a committee that crafts laws for the benefit of various corporations to pass on to their political allies. The nature of those laws is to encourage (and sometimes compel) increasingly harsh sentencing.

Did you think they were not driven by the profit motive or something? I get that you're skeptical, I just wonder what YOU thought they were doing, if not trying to get more inmates in order to increase their profits.

 

[Revoltingest]

The salon article I posted quotes several internal documents featuring prison profiteers openly stating that their profits depend on high and growing incarceration rates and long sentences. Some of them moonlight on a committee that crafts laws for the benefit of various corporations to pass on to their political allies. The nature of those laws is to encourage (and sometimes compel) increasingly harsh sentencing.

Did you think they were not driven by the profit motive or something? I get that you're skeptical, I just wonder what YOU thought they were doing, if not trying to get more inmates in order to increase their profits.

I didn't notice such a post, but after reading many salon.com articles, I'll not
waste my time to see that your inference even matches their propaganda.

 

[Huey09]

I agree and think that's fair game. Personally, I would not buy any product that I knew was made in a prison. So let's move to end the practice. The thing is now we have all these inmate sitting around... now what? I'd prefer to see them doing public works myself and not making anyone money.

That is a reasonable compromise. The chance to leave the prison to do work cleaning public parks should only be for prisoners on their way to Good Behavior release or on lesser charges. People who are in for life for crimes like charles manson...no outside for them. For the prisoners who are left I haven't schooled myself in psychology but this might be something to try for certain individuals for assault and manslaughter(I don't know what to do with full out murderers though.

Um, Ok.

I thought it was sarcasm I have a horrible time reading moods through letters.

That is the theory, but the execution of the model hasn't been particularly productive to date.

I agree but how do you change from the imperfect model to a more realistic model? As a taxpayer, how much are you willing to pay to see this improved?

I would like my taxes diverted more towards structure repair(Our highways and bridges are falling apart!) But I would give more after other reforms to our tax cuts favored towards the rich.

Apologies. I just got the whiff that you didn't think vast swaths of the prison population should be in jail.

Its fine, but no I do want people who are causing absolute disturbance in society need to be removed and reformed.

What? I'm in Canada. We have a revolving door on our prisons and remand centers. Recidivism rates are abysmal and in theory, the only way out of that cycle is through education.

I apologize, I never knew this. And I agree that education is the only way out of this horrible cycle.

It's against Federal Law in virtually all countries on the planet. That's why, though I do agree that incarcerating people for small quantities of pot is mean spirited.

Not just mean spirited but a ridiculous criminalization of a plant.

Well, maybe if they understood that pot wasn't worth the time, they might change their behavior. Another unsavory side to this is that a rather lot of people who find themselves on the wrong side of the law are not the smartest inhabitants on the planet. Education can be a vexing process for such individuals and for educators alike.

Its 50% cunning and 50% luck. Smoking or ingesting weed is not a dumb thing to do anymore than drinking, in moderation its a wonderful relaxation hobby. But I agree that many are willfully ignorant and the process will be long process but I don't know other options we have?

 

[adi2d]

If we followed the OP suggestion who would we blame?



I'm on a stupid smart phone. Can someone post South park answer?

 

[Revoltingest]

If we followed the OP suggestion who would we blame?

Of course, we'd blame whichever state(s) were made from the fetid corpse that was Canuckistan.

 

[Alceste]

I didn't notice such a post, but after reading many salon.com articles, I'll not
waste my time to see that your inference even matches their propaganda.

Lol. Ok then. Carry on with your baseless opinions.

 

[Estro Felino]

ok...take Canada.
But in exchange, California, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico...shall be given back to Mexico

Estados Unidos Mejicanos

Bye, bye Hollywood

 

[Revoltingest]

Lol. Ok then. Carry on with your baseless opinions.

Oh, that's so cute that you believe your opinions are logical & evidenced.

 

[Father Heathen]

Because the US incarcerates people for minor offences to pad the profit margins of private prisons.
A disproportionate number of those people are black or Hispanic. It's slavery with a new haircut.

I agree that people shouldn't be imprisoned for victimless crimes. As for the racial proportions regarding arrests, should people of other races be encouraged to commit more crimes so that arrests can be of equal proportions? Or should police only arrest a single person of each race until they have one of every race before starting again, to ensure equal proportions?

 

[Alceste]

I agree that people shouldn't be imprisoned for victimless crimes. As for the racial proportions regarding arrests, should people of other races be encouraged to commit more crimes so that arrests can be of equal proportions? Or should police only arrest a single person of each race until they have one of every race before starting again, to ensure equal proportions?

People of other races do commit crimes at an equal rate to black and Hispanic people. They are simply arrested less often, acquitted more often, and sentenced more leniently than minorities if convicted. You can look that up if you like. It's not as if it's a big secret. It's been studied to death.

 

[Alceste]

Oh, that's so cute that you believe your opinions are logical & evidenced.

It's so cute that you that think "Revoltingest's gut instincts" even stands a chance against Dustin's shock and awe fact bombing of your vague, baseless skepticism.