What are Hamas' leaders thinking?

[Copernicus]

The same thought had occurred to me. But it may be a bridge too far. I have not so far seen any of the pundits suggesting Russian involvement, though there is little doubt it must suit Putin to have this blow up just when Congress is stating to argue about funding for Ukraine.

I listened to David Aaronovitch's "Briefing Room" on Radio 4 this evening, which was devoted to this topic. One of the interesting observations was the degree of sophistication of the Hamas attack, using drones and electronic countermeasures. This was way beyond a mere terrorist operation. They have been getting a lot of kit, and lot of training, from somewhere. Iran seems to be in the frame as the supplier. No one mentioned Russia - and in truth they must need all their gear for the Ukraine campaign.

That's certainly true, but Russia has been active in Africa and Syria, especially via its mercenary Wagner group. They could provide some of the training and expertise used in the Hamas attack. None of the equipment being used by Hamas was manufactured there, nor would any special training have been homegrown. Hamas may have expected Hezbollah to attack with more force from Lebanon, and they did launch a rocket attack that was short-lived. Perhaps they thought their brutal attack on Israel would get more external support than it did.

 

[Revoltingest]

Forgive me for wanting to achieve something useful.

That's an odd response.

 

[Revoltingest]

Hamas walk the walk on behalf of the Palestinians and whether they like it or not,hamas don’t give a crap for Palestinians,they’re only good as human shields to them,Hamas have at least been honest about their goal which is the annihilation of Israel and Jews based on a man flying on a donkey to Jerusalem,good luck with making peace with then.

To focus on the sins of Hamas alone is to
ignore Israel's oppression & mass murder
of Palestinians....which is why Hamas exists
& fights. Israel could seek peace & justice
for Palestinians....but it prefers to do what
it does, ie, unleash vengeance.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

To focus on the sins of Hamas alone is to
ignore Israel's oppression & mass murder
of Palestinians....which is why Hamas exists
& fights. Israel could seek peace & justice
for Palestinians....but it prefers to do what
it does, ie, unleash vengeance.

I guess my take, after watching some very violent footage, and as an american who is far removed from all of this, is to notice the extraordinarily salient brutality of the attackers. To attack civilians and brutalize them, without seeing it as a mistake, while filming it, without any shame, does seem disgusting. I can't imagine what exactly was running through the minds of the people who did that, specifically

Now if the Israeli army goes in, by ground, to the urban area of the Gaza strip, I fear that this is where a kind of moral trap may occur. Though I can't imagine that they would replicate the behavior that was just given them, I can still imagine things happening that may flip the current opinion of the moment

 

[Ebionite]

What is your take on why Hamas exists and why it can exist and have so much support in Gaza?

Hamas was created by Israeli and US intelligence services to counteract Yasser Arafat, Ron Paul explains – NaturalNews.com

The recent terror attack on Israel by Hamas is a senseless tragedy that we can already see is going to have lasting repercussions on world affairs, especially in the Middle East. Why, then, did the United States and Israel itself create Hamas back in the 1970s? Before Hamas was what it is today...

www.naturalnews.com

 

[Revoltingest]

I guess my take, after watching some very violent footage, and as an american who is far removed from all of this, is to notice the extraordinarily salient brutality of the attackers. To attack civilians and brutalize them, without seeing it as a mistake, while filming it, without any shame, does seem disgusting. I can't imagine what exactly was running through the minds of the people who did that, specifically

Now if the Israeli army goes in, by ground, to the urban area of the Gaza strip, I fear that this is where a kind of moral trap may occur. Though I can't imagine that they would replicate the behavior that was just given them, I can still imagine things happening that may flip the current opinion of the moment

Israel has already killed more Palestinians
than Hamas has killed Israelis. And they've
only just begun.

 

[We Never Know]

Hamas was created by Israeli and US intelligence services to counteract Yasser Arafat, Ron Paul explains – NaturalNews.com

The recent terror attack on Israel by Hamas is a senseless tragedy that we can already see is going to have lasting repercussions on world affairs, especially in the Middle East. Why, then, did the United States and Israel itself create Hamas back in the 1970s? Before Hamas was what it is today...

www.naturalnews.com

About your source...

"Natural News (formerly NewsTarget, which is now a separate sister site) is a far-right, anti-vaccination conspiracy theory and fake news website known for promoting alternative medicine, pseudoscience, disinformation, and far-right extremism.[1][9] The website began publishing articles in 2008 and is based in the United States.[1][6]"

Natural News - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Detailed Report​

Bias Rating: RIGHT CONSPIRACY-PSEUDOSCIENCE
Factual Reporting: VERY LOW
Country: USA
Press Freedom Rank: MOSTLY FREE
Media Type: Website
Traffic/Popularity: Minimal Traffic
MBFC Credibility Rating: LOW CREDIBILITY

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Israel has already killed more Palestinians
than Hamas has killed Israelis. And they've
only just begun.

I do not believe that they would intentionally brutalize people in the manner that we have all just seen. Now I am not a military expert, but it looks like in that area of the world, the urban density is such that whenever fighting occurs, it would incur unintentional losses. That just my hunch from noticing how things are built over there in the videos. So that's why I'd be worried about doing any kind of counter action, if I was making decisions in Israel. Because then, huge mistakes can happen, and that would very likely turn around a lot of popular opinion

But you're not really responding the main point of my post, which was to see if you noticed the very intentional brutality that we saw. It was a very special kind of intentional brutality, and I don't really know where it comes from, but it probably should be understood as being a special sort of awful. When that they attacked that music festival for example, that was not the mentality of an everyday army, it seems more like a mentality based on totally uncontrolled and unhinged psychotic urges

 

[Revoltingest]

I do not believe that they would intentionally brutalize people in the manner that we have all just seen. Now I am not a military expert, but it looks like in that area of the world, the urban density is such that whenever fighting occurs, it would incur unintentional losses. That just my hunch from noticing how things are built over there in the videos. So that's why I'd be worried about doing any kind of counter action, if I was making decisions in Israel. Because then, huge mistakes can happen, and that would very likely turn around a lot of popular opinion

But you're not really responding the main point of my post, which was to see if you noticed the very intentional brutality that we saw. It was a very special kind of intentional brutality, and I don't really know where it comes from, but it probably should be understood as being a special sort of awful. When that they attacked that music festival for example, that was not the mentality of an everyday army, it seems more like a mentality based on totally uncontrolled and unhinged psychotic urges

Intentional brutality exists on both sides.
Hamas commits heinous acts up close & personal.
Israel prefers the more distanced use of bombs.
But it also uses murder & torture. And it tolerates
civilian attacks on Palestinians....

MSN

Palestinian man, son attending funeral procession in West Bank shot dead​

I notice how there's such partisan focus on the
side one opposes....as thought that describes
what's going on. That's dysfunctional because
it deflects from addressing what's needed to
end hostilities.
What's the best goal?
1) Crushing Hamas & Palestinians.
2) Pursuing a solution.

 

[Ebionite]

Bias Rating: RIGHT CONSPIRACY-PSEUDOSCIENCE

https://www.txst.edu/philosophy/resources/fallacy-definitions/Ad-Hominem.html

 

[We Never Know]

Your logical fallacy is ad hominem

You attacked your opponent's character or personal traits in an attempt to undermine their argument.

yourlogicalfallacyis.com

I posted about your source, not you.
But if the shoe fits, wear it.

Your source is crap. So there's that.

 

[We Never Know]

Intentional brutality exists on both sides.
Hamas commits heinous acts up close & personal.
Israel prefers the more distanced use of bombs.
But it also uses murder & torture. And it tolerates
civilian attacks on Palestinians....

MSN

Palestinian man, son attending funeral procession in West Bank shot dead​

I notice how there's such partisan focus on the
side one opposes....as thought that describes
what's going on. That's dysfunctional because
it deflects from addressing what's needed to
end hostilities.
What's the best goal?
1) Crushing Hamas & Palestinians.
2) Pursuing a solution.

They are telling people to evacuate...

Israel tells UN to evacuate the northern Gaza Strip within 24 hours​

"The Israeli Ministry of Defense and the IDF notified the UN just before midnight local time to evacuate its staff and notify Palestinians living north of Wadi Gaza that they should evacuate to the southern part of the Gaza Strip in the next 24 hours, two sources with direct knowledge."

MSN

 

[Ebionite]

I posted about your source, not you.

It doesn't matter. Natural News was reporting other sources, and their political leaning or view on conspiracies is irrelevant. Your ad-hom relates to that irrelevancy.

Your source is crap.

Because anyone who reports facts that you don't like must be crap, right?

 

[Orbit]

They are telling people to evacuate...

Israel tells UN to evacuate the northern Gaza Strip within 24 hours​

"The Israeli Ministry of Defense and the IDF notified the UN just before midnight local time to evacuate its staff and notify Palestinians living north of Wadi Gaza that they should evacuate to the southern part of the Gaza Strip in the next 24 hours, two sources with direct knowledge."

MSN

It's ocean at their back and Israel to the North. Where are they supposed to go?

 

[We Never Know]

It's ocean at their back and Israel to the North. Where are they supposed to go?

I reckon to the southern part of the Gaza Strip which it says in the post

 

[Orbit]

I reckon to the southern part of the Gaza Strip which it says in the post

Missed that. 1 million people in 24 hours?

 

[We Never Know]

Missed that. 1 million people in 24 hours?

Lets hope they don't act like people in the path of a hurricaine, try to leave it the last minute.

 

[Revoltingest]

Missed that. 1 million people in 24 hours?

MSN

Excerpted....
Israeli planes bombed the Rafah border crossing between Gaza and Egypt on Tuesday, even as an Israeli military spokesman encouraged Palestinians to use the border post to flee to safety.

Independent Egyptian news outlet Mada Masr, citing an employee at the border checkpoint, reported that Egypt had closed the crossing gate after a warning that Israel would bomb it.


How is it possible for Israel to enter Gaza
without killing many civilians who can't leave?
Where can they go, & survive?
How will they get there?
I wonder who will take possession of all the
land in Gaza?

Questions are to ponder rather than answer.

 

[We Never Know]

I'm trying to imagine the discussions that occurred in Hamas HQ as they were planning this attack...

What goals did they have in mind?

Here's one of my theories, but I'd like to hear other theories, so maybe post your theory before hitting the spoiler button?

Spoiler: Hamas' goals

I think maybe Islamic martyrdom might have been one of the motivators?

A story titled the same as the OP..

What was Hamas thinking?​

For over three decades, it has had the same brutal idea of victory​

What was Hamas thinking? For over three decades, it has had the same brutal idea of victory

In the three and a half decades since it began as an underground militant group, Hamas has pursued a consistently violent strategy aimed at rolling back Israeli rule.

apnews.com

 

[Ebionite]

What was Hamas thinking?

"Hamas was encouraged and really started by Isreal and the United States to counteract Yasser Arafat.” ~ Ron Paul

"Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel's creation," Avner Cohen

Hamas was created by Israeli and US intelligence services to counteract Yasser Arafat, Ron Paul explains – NaturalNews.com

The recent terror attack on Israel by Hamas is a senseless tragedy that we can already see is going to have lasting repercussions on world affairs, especially in the Middle East. Why, then, did the United States and Israel itself create Hamas back in the 1970s? Before Hamas was what it is today...

www.naturalnews.com