What are the best and worst things about heaven?

[YoursTrue]

The bible (Mark, Matthew, Luke) also says that the Kingdom would be established in the lifetime of some of Jesus' hearers ... but speaking for myself, I think running 2,000 years or so late is way over the top, the same thing as not happening.

OK, I believe you are misunderstanding what Jesus meant. Many people, including back in the first century forward, certainly misunderstood in various ways what Jesus was actually saying. And many also persecuted his followers. Some believed and some did not. It's as simple as that for the beginning.

 

[Trailblazer]

Bring it on!

There are two jokes.

A Baha'i dies and is met at the Gates of Heaven by St. Peter, who welcomes him and offers to show him around to get him oriented. "Heaven," St. Peter says, "is like a huge mansion, with lots of rooms in it. Here, for example, is the room where all of the Jews stay." He opens a door and lets him look inside, where a great many Jews are living.

"Over here," St. Peter says, "is where the Muslims stay." Again, he opens the door and lets the Baha'i look in for a few minutes. "This next room is for the Buddhists." Again, he is shown a room full of people. This goes on for a time, until St. Peter suddenly urges him to remain quiet, and they tiptoe past one more door. Once they're past it, the Baha'i asks, "What's in there, and why do we have to be so quiet?"

"Ah," St. Peter says. "That's where the Christians live. They like to think they're the only ones up here."
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A Baha'i dies and is met at the Gates of Heaven by St. Peter, who welcomes him and offers to show him around to get him oriented. To make this short, I'll just say he goes through the same deal as in the previous joke, except he gets to see the Christians. Finally, they come to one last door, which St. Peter opens. "This was built for the Baha'is," he says. But when the Baha'i looks in, he finds that the room is empty!

"Oh no!" he cries. "This can't be! How can I be the only Baha'i here??"
"Calm down," St. Peter says. "The Baha'is are all off travel teaching in hell."

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I wouldn't say all JWs, because, as I mentioned in my previous post, my evangelism team and I were able to persuade a few of them to convert to evangelical Christianity once they stopped heckling and arguing with us. I taught and mentored some of them as they trained to be street preachers.

You didn’t answer my questions. (You didn’t even respond.)

As a part of Christendom, you had nothing to offer.
I know you didn’t. I didn’t either, before I came into the Truth.

And as I told you before, we don’t heckle; and I’ll call you on it.

I used to believe your posts were honest. But now you’ve ruined your credibility with me.

The day is coming - soon - when Jehovah God will deal with your “spirits”, and you’ll find out the truth.
I hope you’ll be able to accept it.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I believe when confronted with the truth JWs flee.

If this were true, we wouldn’t go from door to door. Would we?

One thing about it, though: We try not to argue over Scripture. But we’ll confront any issue, calmly. Try us, the next time we’re at your door.

 

[blü 2]

OK, I believe you are misunderstanding what Jesus meant. Many people, including back in the first century forward, certainly misunderstood in various ways what Jesus was actually saying. And many also persecuted his followers. Some believed and some did not. It's as simple as that for the beginning.

That sounds to me like you're trying to rationalize what proved to be a manifest fault in Jesus' performance. As you doubtless know, the politics amongst Jewish people at the time were highly charged with expectations of the apocalypse (though the chief job of the Son of Man when he arrived was to get rid of the Romans and restore Jewish independence). As you also know, the NT is ambiguous as to whether the Son of Man is Jesus or someone else (identified in non-biblical texts of the day as Enoch, who you'll recall didn't die but went to live with God in heaven). Some versions of Jesus speak as though they're the Son of Man, and some as though that's another person.

So the establishment of the Kingdom was closely associated with the politics of Jesus' time (the same politics, really, as led to the sack of Jerusalem in 70 CE).

That, in the minds of the synoptic authors, was what Jesus was actually saying. And it didn't happen.

 

[Martin]

It would get really boring after a while.

 

[dfnj]

What are the best and worst things about heaven?
I’ll start. There are a lot more things but these are my top 5.

Best things about heaven:

1. No more cars or traffic.
2. No more houses to take care of.
3. No more physical ailments or physical pain.
4. No more grief when loved ones die.
5. Seeing loved ones again.

Worst things about heaven:

1. There is no way of knowing what it will be like.
2. There is no itinerary.
3. There is no return ticket if we don’t like it.
4. Eternity is a long time.
5. There might be no animals there.

I think after we die we all go into the light, melt into the mind of God, and experience eternal heavenly bliss as time stops for our conscious self. Since there's no conscious self there's no judgment. Everyone melts back into the source until born again. Our mind's eye, the center point and the origin of our thoughts, for all of us, comes from the same source and for all of us returns back to the same source. Every conscious being is a sliver of God's mind.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

First, this….

Best things about heaven:

1. No more cars or traffic.
2. No more houses to take care of.
3. No more physical ailments or physical pain.
4. No more grief when loved ones die.
5. Seeing loved ones again.

Then….

Worst things about heaven:


1. There is no way of knowing what it will be like.

I hope you realize you just contradicted yourself.

2. There is no itinerary.

For those who are “chosen” (by God) to go to Heaven, there sure is an itinerary! A very important one!

 

[Hockeycowboy]

After death consciousness ends.

This actually agrees with what the Bible really teaches…
Genesis 3:19…. God told Adam (after he sinned), “YOU will return to the ground…to dust YOU will return.” God said nothing about Adam going to another realm.

Such ideas are from pagan Greek philosophy.

Ecclesiastes 9:5…. “The living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing at all.”
(It’s not talking about bodies here, bodies don’t “know” anything.
It is people - the person - that “know” things. Living people know they will die. And dead people “know nothing”!)

The only hope for humans to live again - according to the Bible - is the Resurrection! That’s it! — Acts 24:15
Until that time comes, everyone is ‘sleeping in death.’ — Acts 7:60; John 11:11-14; 1 Corinthians 15:6,18,20; 1 Thessalonians 4:14,15.

So this concept that the dead are dead, actually agrees with how atheists view death, that life ceases.

The Resurrection, though, coming at God’s “appointed time” (Revelation 11:18), is what keeps human death from being permanent.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

*Mod edit*

No, I do not go along with what Abdu'l-Baha said about there being no animals in heaven. There may or may not be any animals in heaven, I don't know, but it there aren't any it won't be for the unscientific reasons Abdu'l-Baha wrote about. I will have you know that many Baha'is reject what he said and believe there will be animals in heaven.

And this is your “lollipop”, ain’t it?

(You know what I mean.)

So really, in this instance, you’re basing your beliefs on ‘what you want to believe.’ Because you have no source, right?

Why?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

The mere fact that heaven is imagined to exist in another realm doesn't mean it does not exist, because people can imagine things that later turn out to exist.

As I've previously stated, I believe the spirit world may be entirely different from what those who believe in it expect. I feel the same is true for those who don't believe in an afterlife. Having said that, I believe that a person's character and the decisions they've made during their life, whether good or bad, can affect what happens to them in the afterlife. I also understand that Christians typically believe that they know what will happen to them after death based on their church's theological beliefs and biblical interpretations, but in my opinion, they are speculating just like everyone else. However, I have no valid reason to believe any of them. Given everything I've experienced for the last 45 years of my life, I truly believe that it would be intellectually dishonest of me to accept the Bible's multiple erratic depictions of the afterlife as absolute truth. In fact, I reject them all as being both inaccurate and misleading.

That said, I do not believe that heaven is a place where we go after we die, like a geographical location.

Of course, I don't believe in the biblical teachings of heaven or hell, nor do I believe that either is a geological location.

 

[Trailblazer]

And this is your “lollipop”, ain’t it?

(You know what I mean.)

So really, in this instance, you’re basing your beliefs on ‘what you want to believe.’ Because you have no source, right?

Why?

I said: "No, I do not go along with what Abdu'l-Baha said about there being no animals in heaven. There may or may not be any animals in heaven, I don't know, but it there aren't any it won't be for the unscientific reasons Abdu'l-Baha wrote about. I will have you know that many Baha'is reject what he said and believe there will be animals in heaven."

Where in that paragraph above did I say that I want to believe that there are animals in heaven? You are projecting that thought onto me.

It would be nice if there are animals in heaven, but I will accept whatever is in heaven even if there are no animals there.
Unlike the JWs, I do not insist upon anything being the case for my afterlife. Whatever God wills is what will happen.

There is no source that can definitely tell us if there will be animals in heaven, but even if they are not in heaven that does not mean they won't still exist somewhere after their bodies die. Nobody really knows.

 

[Trailblazer]

You didn’t answer my questions. (You didn’t even respond.)

As a part of Christendom, you had nothing to offer.
I know you didn’t. I didn’t either, before I came into the Truth.

As a part of the JW religion, you have nothing to offer @Sgt. Pepper, which is why she did not respond.
You also have nothing to offer me, nothing that I want.

The day is coming - soon - when Jehovah God will deal with your “spirits”, and you’ll find out the truth.
I hope you’ll be able to accept it.

Your truth is not the truth. It is only what you believe is the truth.
How arrogant can a religion be, to claim that all of Christendom is wrong and only their small sect is right.

The day is coming when God will deal with everyone, it is called judgment day.
I don't think you will find out the truth on that day, since I believe we get only one chance to recognize the truth and it is in this earthly life.

 

[Trailblazer]

I hope you realize you just contradicted yourself.

No, I did not contradict myself.
There are certain things we can know but that does not mean we can know what heaven will be like.

For those who are “chosen” (by God) to go to Heaven, there sure is an itinerary! A very important one!

And you think you know what that is?

 

[Tomef]

What are the best and worst things about heaven?
I’ll start. There are a lot more things but these are my top 5.

Best things about heaven:

1. No more cars or traffic.
2. No more houses to take care of.
3. No more physical ailments or physical pain.
4. No more grief when loved ones die.
5. Seeing loved ones again.

Worst things about heaven:

1. There is no way of knowing what it will be like.
2. There is no itinerary.
3. There is no return ticket if we don’t like it.
4. Eternity is a long time.
5. There might be no animals there.

1, it doesn’t exist, and 2, it doesn’t exist.

 

[Trailblazer]

1, it doesn’t exist, and 2, it doesn’t exist.

Why are those your best and worst things?

 

[Tomef]

Why are those your best and worst things?

If it existed, it sounds so unutterably dull that after a few thousand years people would be begging for death. For the second point, a fair number of people have wasted their lives in pursuit of it.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

As a part of the JW religion, you have nothing to offer @Sgt. Pepper, which is why she did not respond.

That is one reason why. The other reason being that arguing with him about my past experiences with rude JWs is a pointless endeavor, in my opinion. I also don't feel obligated to convince him that I've had negative interactions with JWs. Honestly, it makes no difference to me if he believes me or not.

Your truth is not the truth. It is only what you believe is the truth.
How arrogant can a religion be, to claim that all of Christendom is wrong and only their small sect is right.

Well said, in my opinion.

The day is coming when God will deal with everyone, it is called judgment day.

I think his idle threats are about as convincing as me telling him that Zeus is the source of absolute truth and that he will see it on judgment day, when it is too late for him. I think his fear tactics about God's judgment are moot and a waste of time to even consider. I no longer believe it, so it's absurd to me. To be honest, I also think his feeble scare tactic attempt was just as pathetic as searching through the older posts of another member and replying to a post that is nearly a year old in order to take a personal jab at that member. I think that's a pretty desperate endeavor to take a pot shot at someone else.

I don't think you will find out the truth on that day, since I believe we get only one chance to recognize the truth and it is in this earthly life.

It truly saddens me to say that I think you are correct about this. I understand from years of experience that confusion about the afterlife happens to many earthbound human spirits, and in my opinion, Christians are the most susceptible. I think one of the saddest interactions I've had with these spirits is when they linger in church buildings and ask me why they aren't in heaven yet or asleep in their grave. It's heartbreaking to me because they are truly confused.

 

[Trailblazer]

If it existed, it sounds so unutterably dull that after a few thousand years people would be begging for death.

You are preaching to the choir. If there is anything I hate it is being bored.
But here is the thing: Some peoples' conceptions of heaven do not represent what heaven will be like.

We have no idea what heaven will be like, except that it will not be a physical world, so we cannot know if it will be boring or dull.
I do not believe it will be boring or dull, based upon the Baha'i Writings noted below, but I still worry that it might not be all it is cracked up to be.

“O My servants! Sorrow not if, in these days and on this earthly plane, things contrary to your wishes have been ordained and manifested by God, for days of blissful joy, of heavenly delight, are assuredly in store for you. Worlds, holy and spiritually glorious, will be unveiled to your eyes. You are destined by Him, in this world and hereafter, to partake of their benefits, to share in their joys, and to obtain a portion of their sustaining grace. To each and every one of them you will, no doubt, attain.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 323-329

For the second point, a fair number of people have wasted their lives in pursuit of it.

I know that many believers pursue heaven but I do not think we should pursue heaven, and the following passage explains why we should not do that.

“WORSHIP thou God in such wise that if thy worship lead thee to the fire, no alteration in thine adoration would be produced, and so likewise if thy recompense should be paradise.... Fire and paradise both bow down and prostrate themselves before God. That which is worthy of His Essence is to worship Him for His sake, without fear of fire, or hope of paradise.

Although when true worship is offered, the worshipper is delivered from the fire, and entereth the paradise of God’s good-pleasure, yet such should not be the motive of his act. However, God’s favour and grace ever flow in accordance with the exigencies of His inscrutable wisdom.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Selections From the Writings of the Báb, Pages 77-78

reference.bahai.org

 

[Tomef]

We have no idea what heaven will be like, except that it will not be a physical world, so we cannot know if it will be boring or dull.

According to the Bible, everything is made of gold and gemstones and whoever goes there will be singing praises to god ‘forever and ever’. There’s no day, no night, no sleep.