What are the mistakes Muslims do when informing others about Islam?

[Autodidact]

wow wait a minute! he never said anything about killing non-Muslims. i am afraid you are making this calculation within your mind and act as if he did. this is not fair. he might love -any- Muslim more than any non-Muslim. it is not necessarily evil. evil would not try to communicate, in case you did not know

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What I'm saying is that someone else reads that, and it forms a piece of their view that it is good to kill "unbelievers." The view that one sort of people (unbelievers) is worth less than another (believers) is an evil view with evil consequences and should be combated wherever it is found. So my question is, is this an Islamic view?

And evil tries to communicate all the time. It communicates evil. Do you need examples?

 

[.lava]

What I'm saying is that someone else reads that, and it forms a piece of their view that it is good to kill "unbelievers." The view that one sort of people (unbelievers) is worth less than another (believers) is an evil view with evil consequences and should be combated wherever it is found. So my question is, is this an Islamic view?

And evil tries to communicate all the time. It communicates evil. Do you need examples?

i think it is silly, sorry, Autodidact. though i find that post unnecessary and heart breaking, i would not think someone wants to kill all mothers just because he loves his mother more than rest. there are tons of way to praise someone, hundreds of ways to express your love, while doing it so if you tend to insult others, you are either revengeful or very clummsy. i don't need to insult one to praise another.

evil communicates? we all do silly things and mistakes. we all sometimes drift in anger and say things we would not prefer to say in a calm mood. so to speak we all speak "evil" once in awhile but that's not being a evil-man. evil only has a agenda and if he speaks he only speaks for his agenda. i don't believe 301 has a agenda. he is sharing his opinions and how he sees stuff and you don't like what you are hearing. as a Muslim i would not feel proud of what i am hearing when a Muslim degrades existence of a non-Muslim just to praise his beloved Muslim friend. though i don't think it is evil. it only shows how much he loves and cares for his fellow Muslim brother. and no, of course he could have expressed the very same love without breaking your heart or disturbing your mind. but he did not. so go ask him whatever you want to know. just don't try to pull me into a personal stuff of yours. i already share what i think and feel when i want to. if you think it is not enough, then forgive me because real evil is in Muslim nations killing Muslims, stealing their future. it has become normal after all, isn't it? as if there is no war at all

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[LuisDantas]

Response: I'm referring to the actual definition of the word "attack". Whatever definition you choose, no one should ever be attacked because one disagrees with them.

I agree. And by that same token, I again manifest my worry about the image Islam has of Atheists.

 

[Badran]

I don't think judging is bad in itself. We all judge, and we need to and should. We need to be able to distinguish good from evil.

For example, the post we are discussing is immoral. It claims that Muslims are "more valuable" or "worth more" than non-believers. This way of looking at the world causes endless harm--it is the root of so much violence, oppression, injustice. It should be combated wherever it is found.

There is a tendency for some adherents of some religions not only to think this way, but to reduce their religiosity to this tribal mentality, which is actually not only not good, but a source of evil.

Again, the fact that an entire group of Muslims found nothing to comment on, sadly, comports with my predisposition that many Muslims are of this mentality. As I say, I think this mentality is a source of harm in the world, so apparently the way many Muslims practice Islam is a source of harm.

And we see this in practice. We see actual Muslims actually slaughtering people, including other innocent Muslims, based on their view of their religion.

I think this is what many non-Muslims find abhorrent, and, to get back to the OP, what anyone trying to explain or present Islam must content with. If you don't address it AND REPUDIATE IT, you're not going to get anywhere with overcoming our resistance to Islam.

There is nothing wrong with repudiating a certain action done by anybody. But that is not the issue here. When lesser things were done by Muslims in other threads, they have been criticized by some Muslims. The point is that his reaction was due to the specification against Fatihah, so he overreacted and it was obvious and didn't really need to be called out on it. However if your point is that Muslims usually don't criticize each other, then i say some do. May be the majority doesn't, here at RF, but some do and for those who don't, there have been reasons already given by other Muslim posters here.

As for evil things coming from Muslims and stuff. That's true. But it also happens for all sort of reasons. White people used to kill black people and think of them as a lesser sort of human beings just because they are black. My point is that this behavior is associated with certain people, and it is bad, but not because of religion or anything, other than there very own need to feel better or superior than others. Muslims kill for their religion today, and there is a lot of emphasis on that in the media. But Muslim countries are at war and there religion is being slandered or badly imaged in the western media. Also, there countries are not in good conditions at all. So, my point is, that this is a bad time for Muslims, so it's understandable that there will be such bad examples.

 

[Badran]

I agree. And by that same token, I again manifest my worry about the image Islam has of Atheists.

Being an Atheist means you don't believe in God, or inclined not to believe in God. That's up yo you. It is not damaging to us in any way. It's your choice, that has no effect on others.

I myself don't look at atheists any different than i look at anybody else. They are people who have different mentality and beliefs, and they are entitled to it. The mentality you speak of here, is an aspect of religionists from all religions. Their look at atheists is based on their belief, that it is the right thing to believe in God, and that atheists are the direct opposite of that, you can figure out the rest from here. As to how some people will handle this fact. But Islam or Muslims themselves have no special way they look at atheists from.

In other words, i don't assign certain bad attributes to someone just because he's an atheist.

 

[Badran]

There is a huge distinction from advocating a society where everyone is free to believe as they choose (secularism) and one where everyone is required to believe or act as if they believe the same thing (Islamic theocracy.)

Living in an Islamic society doesn't mean you have to be a Muslim, or act like one. Otherwise we wouldn't have special rules as to how to deal with non-muslims in an Islamic society.

 

[LuisDantas]

In other words, i don't assign certain bad attributes to someone just because he's an atheist.

And I praise you for that, Badran. Still, I can't help but feel that many Christians and perhaps most Muslins do indeed assume bad things about us.

Not so much with people of other religions, however.

 

[*Anne*]

And in fact we saw an actual case of a woman who is in danger of being killed by an Islamic government for this very reason. That is pure evil.

*nods* Forget advocating anything. At this point, I'd settle for simply not executing homosexuals.

Fatihah, I saw your response to my question. Many thanks.

 

[Badran]

And I praise you for that, Badran. Still, I can't help but feel that many Christians and perhaps most Muslins do indeed assume bad things about us.

Not so much with people of other religions, however.

Thanks, and may be it is less obvious or existent in other religions, but that will be for various reasons. Also, not most Muslims, some do for sure, but not most. How many Muslims here have said such things, i don't think there was too many.

 

[LuisDantas]

I disagree, but it would please me greatly to be wrong about that

 

[Badran]

I'm sure you'd rather find out that most Muslims have nothing against atheists or that they view them in a certain manner. I hope you see examples that shows you so.

 

[LuisDantas]

Oh, I've met those examples, for sure. And fine people you are, too.

 

[Paraprakrti]

What are the mistakes Muslims do when informing others about Islam?

In my experience, they assume they already understand what I follow.

 

[Fatihah]

Fatihah, I saw your response to my question. Many thanks.

Response: You're very welcome.

 

[Badran]

Most muslims recognise their are at least two islamic sects, Shia and Sunni, in contradiction to the prose of the quaran. So I would question the validity your statement, I believe it would be more correct to state.

Only in the eyes of Agnostics is it clear that the truth is Agnosticism. Only in the eyes of muslims is it clear that the truth is Islam. Only in the eyes of jews is it clear that the truth is Judaism. Only in the eyes of Christians is it clear that the truth is Christianity. In my particular case as an atheist is it clear that the truth is Science.

Are we not equally correct or equally wrong? There is no "in fact" as it is all subjective opinion not objective fact.

Bit like saying "You may think your great, but I know I am perfect". An obvious fallacy, and intolerably arrogant IMO.

I think Luminous makes a valid point. If you know how to use Venn diagrams, you would see every human is in fact born with and falls within the super-set of Agnostics with subsets of the various religions contained within the umbrella of Agnosticism. All religions must be learned as the child grows - it is not an innately natural process, religion is a manmade construct. Right on the fringe of agnosticism and mutually exclusive to most of the other groups is atheism (ie where the probability of God existing approaches zero).

I believe it requires the most learning and thinking to attain atheism. It is therefore beyond religion. At the other end of the scale, right in the center of our agnostic circle are the fanatically religious, those, I fear, that have a low ability to question the universe and yet accept fully what they are fed by mass, I feel sad for those particular flocks.

Humanity spans the entire circle of agnosticism with a fair degree of overlap of the various subsets, but some by definition are mutually exclusive. They are all humanity, the differences are irrelevant and anthropocentric and tend to inhibit a global holistic approach to world problems.

Cheers

When people are born, they meet the requirements of being called agnostics, because they are not committed to any certain religion and because they don't know anything. They didn't choose or decide that they don't know, they just don't. But they also meet the requirements of Islam in that they are in total submission to their nature, which in our belief was created by god. So, in other words they are Muslims, because they submit to God. They have not yet refused or gone willingly against any of God's rules. So, from our perspective, it's not so far fetched to say that in that context, they are born Muslims (submitters) to God. So i agree that it's a matter of perspective.

 

[Wotan]

Even with all your capitalisations and whatnot, I still don't see how it makes the case that all Muslims must either be clones of one another, or Islam is false.

More of the defective reasoning Autodidact was using i think.



Just as I'm sure you believe the laws of your society/belief system/ideology/whatever should be implemented also. Does that mean all of you need to be clones of one another? Come on, you're not making a lot of sense.

No I do NOT. A major difference between us. I have NO desire to force you to act like you believed anything. Believe whatevere myth you like - as long as you pratice the 11th commendsament no one cares. Least of all ME.

But you are not content with that.

 

[Abu Rashid]

Most muslims recognise their are at least two islamic sects, Shia and Sunni, in contradiction to the prose of the quaran

I do not recognise two sects. I recognise the mainstream (ie. about 90% of Muslims) which is what the word sunni is actually a short form for (ahl as-sunnah wal-jamah = people of the mainstream way of the prophet) and then the Shi'a, a word which actually means partisans or sectarians. Then some insignificant little groups who don't even have enough numbers that they're worth mentioning. Unlike Christianity, Islam is fairly orthodox.

How that supposedly contradicts the 'prose' of the Qur'an though is a mystery to me, care to elaborate on that one?

 

[Abu Rashid]

No I do NOT. A major difference between us. I have NO desire to force you to act like you believed anything. Believe whatevere myth you like - as long as you pratice the 11th commendsament no one cares. Least of all ME.

But you are not content with that

So if I lived in your society, and I killed, stole, raped, pillaged, drove like a maniac and burnt your house down, you'd be quite cool with that? I could do those kinds of things in your society, and you'd have no qualms with it whatsoever? I find that a little hard to believe sorry. You would like people to adhere to the laws of your society, I am pretty sure. You might not consider it enforcing your beliefs, but it is.

 

[Wotan]

Living in an Islamic society doesn't mean you have to be a Muslim, or act like one. Otherwise we wouldn't have special rules as to how to deal with non-muslims in an Islamic society.

But you see THAT is the problem That you HAVE special rules for non-believers. Belief or lack of it should have no legal status at ALL. Zero. The very fact that you single out those people for "special rules" is disgusting.

In a free society there would be no NEED for "special rules." The fact that Islam needs them tells us it is an autocratic totalitarian system that seeks to impose it mythology on everyone else.

 

[Kerr]

So if I lived in your society, and I killed, stole, raped, pillaged, drove like a maniac and burnt your house down, you'd be quite cool with that? I could do those kinds of things in your society, and you'd have no qualms with it whatsoever? I find that a little hard to believe sorry. You would like people to adhere to the laws of your society, I am pretty sure. You might not consider it enforcing your beliefs, but it is.

If so then the country I am living in is forcing beliefs upon me since I disagree with how the society works.