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What came before the Big Bang?

godnotgod

Thou art That
Really? Yes mate, a room is a subset of a house. The house is greater than the room which is included in it.

I am a subset of the universe, I am a part of the universe - a lesser part than the whole.

And you, as a lesser 'part', are conscious.

To say you are a 'part' indicates that the universe is some sort of assembly. Is that really the case, or is it more that you are an outgrowth of the universe, in much the same way that an orange is an outgrowth of the orange tree? After all, you ARE an organic entity, yes?
 
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Thief

Rogue Theologian
And you, as a lesser 'part', are conscious.

To say you are a 'part' indicates that the universe is some sort of assembly. Is that really the case, or is it more that you are an outgrowth of the universe, in much the same way that an orange is an outgrowth of the orange tree? After all, you ARE an organic entity, yes?

For now.
 

Bunyip

pro scapegoat
And you, as a lesser 'part', are conscious.

To say you are a 'part' indicates that the universe is some sort of assembly.


Erm..no it doesn't. It indicates that I am a subset of a greater whole.

Is that really the case, or is it more that you are an outgrowth of the universe, in much the same way that an orange is an outgrowth of the orange tree? After all, you ARE an organic entity, yes?

I am organic, but what is the difference in your two scenarios? Trees and organic things are assemblies of smaller parts.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
It understands you because it encompasses all that you are, and much more; it's understanding is greater than your limited knowledge.
Again you jump the gun with the understanding part. Encompassing something doesn't really lend to understanding it. We encompass our body are greater than it yet so much happens we can't fathom nor understand even so it is the me the individual. Yea the viruses and heart cells and all probably think "oh there is a greater mind and it understand us", quite to the contrary actually we are oblivious.

edit: the parts only know enough to get their part of the job done, beyond that requires mind and even that isn't a guarantee of understanding any better
 

Aman777

Bible Believer
You didn't answer my questions, so there's no reason for me to move this discussion forward.

Take care.

Dear metis, What a unique way to run from the debate. Go to the other board because I just destroyed your argument there on Evolism. I predict that you will run away there too? Fool me and stick around. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
Dear metis, What a unique way to run from the debate. Go to the other board because I just destroyed your argument there on Evolism. I predict that you will run away there too? Fool me and stick around. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

Wow...

And you end that with "In Love"? Sheesh... Doesn't look like love to me, not one bit.
:eek:
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Dear metis, What a unique way to run from the debate. Go to the other board because I just destroyed your argument there on Evolism. I predict that you will run away there too? Fool me and stick around. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

This is what I asked you on post 1974 that you didn't deal with but simply walked around, not at all getting close to answering the question:

Why would God want us to believe in Him if He only made an appearance to only one small group of people in one very small area of the world during one short time period?

Secondly, I didn't see where you supposedly "destroyed" my argument, but I do believe you definitely "destroyed" me when it comes to having a vivid-imagination.

BTW, the "In Love" that you sign off with seems to be to be so out of place as it just seems to be a rather meaningless. You can't brag about supposedly "destroying" someone's position and the turn around and sign off by saying "In Love".
 

Aman777

Bible Believer
Nope. Genesis 1 clearly states that the Earth was created on the first day. It is not saying anything about creation 'elements':

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Dear gng, The heaven is Air, in Hebrew, and the earth is ground.

Genesis then goes on to say that the Earth was empty, meaning it had no life-forms upon it as yet; that there was yet no Sun; that water was already present on its surface. That means that the Earth as a planet was already created:

Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

Bet you didn't notice that the Water is not shown as being "created". Did you? Can you tell us WHY? You also keep Claiming that the Earth was already a Planet, and yet God tells us that the ground was formless, which is UnShaped, so HOW could it be a planet? Can you tell us what Dust is, unless it's ground without form? Why it's so empty if falls right through your fingers.

Your translation says that 'the ground was without form and empty or void ' on the first day, further indicating that the Earth was already formed, but that life-forms were not yet present upon its surface.

False, since you haven't noticed that there is NO Potter to mould the air, dust, and water, into physical form. This means you have NO idea of WHY God said, Let there be Light. Do you?

Then Genesis 1:9 states:

And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.”

This is supposed to have occurred on the third day. The writer of Genesis is confused. How can there be ground on the first day but does not 'appear' until the thrid?

Is it God's mistake or YOUR interpretation, which is totally false? You have swallowed the ancient Goatherder Theology and now you are REJECTING God's Word which you are trying to explain. The reason the ground or "Earth" (Capital E) is shown in Gen 1:9-10 is that the Creator entered the picture on the FIRST Day and He made the Firmament or boundary of the first Universe on the SECOND Day and Now, on the THIRD Day, the FIRST Earth, the EARTH of Adam is made. Can you tell us the Name of the Creator Who appeared on the FIRST Day? Gen 1:3

Basically, Genesis describes a watery world appearing first, and then land appears secondarily. That contradicts science, which tells us that the Earth was a spin-off from the Sun, meaning that the primary condition would have been a world of fire, not water:

That is because you have confused the firmament or world of Adam, which was made in the midst or MIDDLE of water, Gen 1:6-8 and totally surrounded by water, Gen 1:7 and was some 10k years ago "clean dissolved" Isaiah 24:19 in that SAME Water. Are you sure you have read the Bible?

Gradually the sun grew in size and the dusty disc cooled. Over millions of years the dust clustered into grains, then lumps, boulders and eventually planetesimals - chunks of rock big enough to have their own gravitational field. Some of these planetesimals became the embryonic forms of the planets in our solar system today.

True, but you are describing the Present Earth and NOT the first Earth which was totally destroyed in the Flood. It's the world that "Then Was" in ll Peter 3:5. You are describing the formation of our Earth, which will be BURNED. ll Peter 3:10

Slowly these rocky planets began to organise themselves, settling at a comfortable distance from the sun and finding their own orbit. Earth found its path as third planet from the sun. In the early days rocky pile-ups were still common, leaving craters on the surface of all of the planets.

Hey, you just explained a Biblical MYSTERY which proves that our world and the world of Adam were totally different. You have shown that our present Earth is a ROCK and is NOT "clean dissolved" in water as Adam's Earth was, since our Earth is covered with more than 70% Water, and does NOT dissolve. Does it?

Early Earth was a very different place to the planet we inhabit today. Initially the planet didn't have a crust, mantle and core, and instead all the elements were evenly mixed. There were no oceans nor continents and no atmosphere. Meteorite collisions, radioactive decay and planetary compression made Earth become hotter and hotter. After a few hundred million years the temperature of Earth reached 2,000C - the melting point of iron - and Earth's core was formed.

At this point much of the Earth was molten and there may have been a magma ocean at the surface. Gradually the Earth cooled and the planet settled out into a core, mantle and crust. This layering of the planet helped to trigger plate tectonics at the surface, and the Earth began to look a little more like the planet we know today.
Most geologists think Earth's atmosphere and oceans arrived about 4bn years ago - the product of multiple volcanic burps. Alternatively, they may have come from comets colliding with Earth and releasing water and gases at the surface.

How did our planet form? | Science | The Guardian

Get that? Atmosphere and oceans did not arrive until about 4 billion years ago, not 3 days! The temperature was around 2000 degrees after a few hundred million years, when the earth was still molten magma. So no vegetation; no life forms yet, as Genesis describes as having appeared within the first seven days. It took millions of years for the planets, including Earth, to form, not in an instant, as Genesis describes.

Genesis, as well as most of the rest of the Christian account, is a child's simplistic fantasy story, the product of the writer's colorful imagination.

All that cyber space used in a vain attempt to CLAIM that our Earth and Adam's are the SAME. I'm sorry for your Scriptural illiteracy. Is there anyone here who can support their Theories with Scripture? I'm beginning to doubt it. I see that my teaching abilites, if I have any, are sorely needed here. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Dear metis, Because when you discover that Jesus IS the Light of the first Day, the only Image of the invisible God, that when you've seen Jesus, you've seen the invisible Father which NO man has ever seen....you will realize that Jesus Christ IS God incarnate, physically, bodily, the ONLY God you will EVER see.

Jesus is YHWH of the Old Testament, the Almighty God, and He is the ALPHA and the OMEGA, the beginning and the end. IF you don't know Jesus, be prepared to stand before Him, for He is the Judge at the Judgment, and when you stand before a Being BRIGHTER than the Sun, your knees, like every mans will bow, before God. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

The above is what you posted that you claim had questions I didn't answer. Tell us, exactly where is there a question?

Frankly, it appears you've done a wonderful job "destroying" your own position through bearing falsehood.
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
Der Ouroboros, It's simple. God is Love and He is in me, and I am In Him, or In Love, God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman
The simple thing is that you were rude and then sign it with "in love".

If your God is self-righteous like that and claim to give love by being a jerk... then you can keep your God. Thank you very much.
 

Aman777

Bible Believer
This is what I asked you on post 1974 that you didn't deal with but simply walked around, not at all getting close to answering the question:

Dear metis, False. I answered your question and showed you that Jesus was NOT just known by people 2k years ago but was the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, the Incarnation of the invisible God. You just didn't like my post, so you have refused to accept my answer. Go back to my post of 1974 and you can see my answer which you don't agree with.

Secondly, I didn't see where you supposedly "destroyed" my argument, but I do believe you definitely "destroyed" me when it comes to having a vivid-imagination.

BTW, the "In Love" that you sign off with seems to be to be so out of place as it just seems to be a rather meaningless. You can't brag about supposedly "destroying" someone's position and the turn around and sign off by saying "In Love".

In Love is short for In Christ who IS the ONLY God you will ever see, as your knees bow before Him. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman
 

Aman777

Bible Believer
The simple thing is that you were rude and then sign it with "in love".

If your God is self-righteous like that and claim to give love by being a jerk... then you can keep your God. Thank you very much.

Dear Ouroboros, Thank you I will keep Jesus while you worship everything that passes. Am I correct? God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Dear metis, False. I answered your question and showed you that Jesus was NOT just known by people 2k years ago but was the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, the Incarnation of the invisible God. You just didn't like my post, so you have refused to accept my answer. Go back to my post of 1974 and you can see my answer which you don't agree with.

So, you're saying that all people at all times in all locations in the world saw and listened to Jesus? Can you point out where exactly in the "N.T." that is found?

In Love is short for In Christ who IS the ONLY God you will ever see, as your knees bow before Him. God Bless you.

:thud:
 

godnotgod

Thou art That
Again you jump the gun with the understanding part. Encompassing something doesn't really lend to understanding it. We encompass our body are greater than it yet so much happens we can't fathom nor understand even so it is the me the individual. Yea the viruses and heart cells and all probably think "oh there is a greater mind and it understand us", quite to the contrary actually we are oblivious.

edit: the parts only know enough to get their part of the job done, beyond that requires mind and even that isn't a guarantee of understanding any better

But in the case of the human body, it and all its 'parts', came out of something greater. It is this 'something greater' that has the understanding of who and what you are in your totality.
 

godnotgod

Thou art That
Erm..no it doesn't. It indicates that I am a subset of a greater whole.

Which, as I understand you, is to mean that everything that you are composed of, is contained within the superset of the greater whole, which, in this case, is the universe. Is that right?


I am organic, but what is the difference in your two scenarios? Trees and organic things are assemblies of smaller parts.
The point I am trying to make is that, as organic beings; as humans, we are not made, as in some kind of artifact, but grown. We grow out of the universe. To put it another way, we are a total action of the universe in the same way a wave is a total action of the ocean.

If you remove certain 'parts' of either an organic entity or an artifact, either may cease to function in whole or in part. But an artifact, like a piano or engine, for example, though rendered non-functional via disassembly, can generally be reassembled, while an organic entity cannot, at least not after it has ceased to function, ie; 'death'. To say that you are an assembly of various 'parts' does not tell the whole story. It is kind of like saying that a human being is nothing more than a chemical factory. It is reductionist thinking at its worst.
 
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Aman777

Bible Believer
So, you're saying that all people at all times in all locations in the world saw and listened to Jesus? Can you point out where exactly in the "N.T." that is found?

Dear metis, EVERY eye will NOT see Jesus until He comes at the end of time. At that time the Sun will be darkened and the Moon shall not put forth light:

Rev 1:7 Behold, He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen. http://www.blbclassic.org/study/tsk/tsk.cfm?b=Rev&c=1&v=8&t=KJVhttp://www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=1&t=KJV#conc/8http://www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=1&t=KJV#comm/8
http://www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=1&t=KJV#imgs/8http://www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=1&t=KJV#vrsn/8http://www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=1&t=KJV#dict/8
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Jesus is LORD. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman
 

godnotgod

Thou art That
True, but you are describing the Present Earth and NOT the first Earth which was totally destroyed in the Flood. It's the world that "Then Was" in ll Peter 3:5. You are describing the formation of our Earth, which will be BURNED. ll Peter 3:10

2 Peter 3:5 says nothing about a 'first Earth'. It clearly refers to THE earth, which would be the same earth you and I are on right now:

2 Peter 3:5
But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water.

The scientific evidence shows otherwise, as indicated by my previous post.

It was not the Earth that was 'totally destroyed' in the Flood. That is ridiculous, because in order to have a flood, there must be something there (eg a planet) for a flood to occur upon. If there was even such a 'world-wide' flood, only what existed on the surface would have been affected. The planet Earth itself was unfazed.

Again, you are making things up that aren't actually there.
 
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Aman777

Bible Believer
Originally Posted by Aman777
Dear metis, Because when you discover that Jesus IS the Light of the first Day, the only Image of the invisible God, that when you've seen Jesus, you've seen the invisible Father which NO man has ever seen....you will realize that Jesus Christ IS God incarnate, physically, bodily, the ONLY God you will EVER see.

Jesus is YHWH of the Old Testament, the Almighty God, and He is the ALPHA and the OMEGA, the beginning and the end. IF you don't know Jesus, be prepared to stand before Him, for He is the Judge at the Judgment, and when you stand before a Being BRIGHTER than the Sun, your knees, like every mans will bow, before God. God Bless you.



The above is what you posted that you claim had questions I didn't answer. Tell us, exactly where is there a question?

Dear metis, You are confused. You are the one who posted that I didn't answer YOUR questions. I did, but you didn't like my answers. Now, you claim that I asked questions? You are confused, or trying to muddy the water in order to avoid embarrassment.

Frankly, it appears you've done a wonderful job "destroying" your own position through bearing falsehood.

No. I said Jesus to someone who gets really confused trying to explain Scripture without referring to the Creator. Jesus IS the only physical God ever formed or that ever will be formed. Isa 43:10 And don't go thinking that I'm a JW since the only way you can get that name is to "add to" what is actually written. The name of Jesus in the Old Testament is YHWH, interpreted as LORD God by the King James translators. Without Him was not anything made which was made. Jhn 1:3 God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman
 
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