What came before the Big Bang?

[Thief]

Most of them tell me they don't even dream. Just darkness, they wake up later like time was missing. Some dream, see bright tunnels, probably the bright light from the hospital bed as doctors try and revive them.

That tunnel vision has a physical cause.
As the flow of blood shuts down.....the peripheral vision goes first.

That light at the end of the tunnel is the last bit of light your eyes see.

Missing time?.....sure.
Time doesn't exist anyway.

 

[godnotgod]

Nay...not at all.

Spirit is forever.

Of course the Spirit of God is unique.
Seems He was there before the 'bang'.

You're still confusing the two.

The urge for survival is biological.

The notion of an afterlife is based upon the desire to freeze reality into a permanent state we call 'Paradise'. Our experience in this life is comprised of temporal joy and temporal sorrow. Life is temporal. So we create a concept of eternal happiness beyond life, not realizing that Absolute Joy is available right now.

 

[Thief]

You're still confusing the two.

The urge for survival is biological.

The notion of an afterlife is based upon the desire to freeze reality into a permanent state we call 'Paradise'. Our experience in this life is comprised of temporal joy and temporal sorrow. Life is temporal. So we create a concept of eternal happiness beyond life, not realizing that Absolute Joy is available right now.

Yeah well...I don't want my spirit to die.

I think I'll feel better....later on.

 

[godnotgod]

Yeah well...I don't want my spirit to die.

I think I'll feel better....later on.

Is spirit subject to death?

 

[Thief]

Is spirit subject to death?

yeah (or can be)...

Fear not anyone who would harm the flesh....fear instead He who is able to rend the soul.
So I've read.

 

[gnostic]

Fear not anyone who would harm the flesh....fear instead He who is able to rend the soul.
So I've read.

I don't think soul exist, but judging by my understanding of the soul, is that even possible?

 

[Thief]

I don't think soul exist, but judging by my understanding of the soul, is that even possible?

I think it is.

You cannot escape your flesh as is.
No matter your suffering....your stuck in there.

No indication you can get out when you're dead.
That box you go into goes into the ground.
Eternal darkness is physically real.

If THAT level of solitude confinement fails to destroy......
then you are more than human.

 

[godnotgod]

I think it is.

You cannot escape your flesh as is.
No matter your suffering....your stuck in there.

No indication you can get out when you're dead.
That box you go into go into the ground.
Eternal darkness is physically real.

If THAT level of solitude confinement fails to destroy......
then you are more than human.

If we are spirits that chose to incarnate, why would we want to escape, unless we forgot what the game was; unless we somehow forgot who we originally were, and became literally hypnotized by the world, losing ourselves in the state of Identificaiton. If that is the case, and it certainly appears to be*, then Awakening is in order, but the reinforcements that keep us asleep are extremely powerful. What are these forces? The Three Addictions: Power, Sensation, and Security, the constant pursuit of which keeps man in utter turmoil, blinded by his own greed, lust, and desire.

Once you awaken, there is no longer a desire for escape, because it is realized there is nothing to escape from. However, we CAN transcend, and be free, here, now.

You should pay more attention to the carpenter's parable of the Lilies of the Field, or what we Buddhists call 'The Wisdom of Insecurity', or, 'The Wisdom of No-Escape'. It's really all about just being fully here, now, and not being concerned too much about the future. You don't really need to be terrified about being locked into an eternal grave. That's just the wine talkiing. Get over it. Relax, and allow the Self to settle naturally onto itself. Then you'll be free of your anxiety.

Life!

Death!

Let's play cards!

*Babies have no desire to escape the flesh. They understand the game of Peek-A-Boo without ever having been taught, and seem perfectly at home in their bodies. It's only as they grow up do they lose their sense of spontaneous playfullness, taking life much too seriously, and become terrified of death, and seeing an illusory 'separation' of body and spirit to the point of internal conflict, a war, if you will, against the 'flesh'.

 

[Thief]

If we are spirits that chose to incarnate, why would we want to escape,

You are leaving this world whether you want to or not.

The terms are not yours to reset.

The only freedom you really have....the only point of control that is yours....
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

That's as close to 'terminology' as you can get.

Unless of course...you desire to be terminal.
You might call that an....escape.
Dust need not be judged.
Just swept out the Door.

 

[godnotgod]

You are leaving this world whether you want to or not.

What coming or going to or from any 'other' world is there? There is only THIS world, and all coming and going occur HERE. Show me the path where there is no coming and no going.

Dust need not be judged.
Just swept out the Door.

There is no such 'door'. That is a fantasy in your imagination.

 

[Thief]

What coming or going to or from any 'other' world is there? There is only THIS world, and all coming and going occur HERE. Show me the path where there is no coming and no going.

There is no such 'door'. That is a fantasy in your imagination.

I didn't make it up.
Such things have been around since the beginning.

 

[godnotgod]

I didn't make it up.
Such things have been around since the beginning.

Since the beginning of what? Your imagination?

 

[IHaveTheGift]

sadly, eternal regress fails as a theory and so does something from nothing, which to me leaves only one thing, an unknown force to us.
Call that God's.....
It's there, plain as day to us.

 

[godnotgod]

sadly, eternal regress fails as a theory and so does something from nothing....

Can you really have 'something' without nothing?

 

[Thief]

Since the beginning of what? Your imagination?

Refer to Genesis....you know the drill.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Do you believe in the Big Bang?

I see no reason to doubt it as of yet. It is a matter for science. However, based on a point I read farther on in the thread, the big-bang was at first seen as verifying Scripture and therefore was not willingly accepted at first by the science community. The big-bang says that there was a beginning just as Genesis does. Before that they thought that everything had always existed.

Do you think it was a superior being who created the Big Bang?

Yes. But it would not be seen that way any more than one might see an architect building a house. The design emanates from him, but he does not build it, this is given to other lesser powers.

Do you think the multiverse theory is a good explanation?

Yes, though I consider it far bigger than they. The multiverse is only a speck compared to what really is

Was it something else?

Evolving Consciousness, as all things are.

 

[gnostic]

Yes. But it would not be seen that way any more than one might see an architect building a house. The design emanates from him, but he does not build it, this is given to other lesser powers.

.

I always thought that the designer to be flawed or faulty argument, whether this designer be the watchmaker, or yours - architect.

But whether you use the watchmaker or architect ploys, you have to remember that in real life, there are direct evidences for the existence of a human watchmaker or human architect for the designs of watches or buildings.

There are no direct evidences to support god(s), creator(s) or intelligent designer(s) of the universe or nature. God, divine creator or intelligent designer is all based on blind faith, superstitions, wishful thinking or delusion.

The whole watchmaker analogy is based on misinformation, and preying on some gullible people, who don't understand the meaning of empirical evidences, even if a goblin was to jump out of hole and pinch their collective a** cheeks. :foot:

 

[Ouroboros]

.
The whole watchmaker analogy is based on misinformation, and preying on some gullible people, who don't understand the meaning of empirical evidences, even if a goblin was to jump out of hole and pinch their collective a** cheeks. :foot:

Also, the problem of the watchmaker argument is that God is some kind of handyman, carpenter, potter, or such. That God would have to physically build things by his hands, piece by piece, like Lego. What we see today in our high-tech world is production by automated procedures. Many designs now are automatically designed by smart programs (computer chips and motherboards, games, etc). So what we have in our world today is automation-designers instead of hands-on-designers. God as a watchmaker is thinking of God as a hands-on-designer and not an automation-designer, which in my opinion is a lesser and dumber god. A smart God would make software to design the world for him. Which means that the design we're seeing is designed by an automated process rather than God directly. (If one wants to think of God as smarter than the medieval version.)

 

[Thief]

Also, the problem of the watchmaker argument is that God is some kind of handyman, carpenter, potter, or such. That God would have to physically build things by his hands, piece by piece, like Lego. What we see today in our high-tech world is production by automated procedures. Many designs now are automatically designed by smart programs (computer chips and motherboards, games, etc). So what we have in our world today is automation-designers instead of hands-on-designers. God as a watchmaker is thinking of God as a hands-on-designer and not an automation-designer, which in my opinion is a lesser and dumber god. A smart God would make software to design the world for him. Which means that the design we're seeing is designed by an automated process rather than God directly. (If one wants to think of God as smarter than the medieval version.)

First the simplest of elements and what you can do with it......
hydrogen and light.

Then the heavier elements and bestowing various but firm characters on each.

Then collection of said chemistry in little non-fusion balls.(planets)

Then the sorting of chemistry in planetary weather.

Then life.

God as Someone that likes chemistry and science?......sure.....

(and we are kinda like software as we redesign what we think our lives should be)

 

[Robert.Evans]

.

I always thought that the designer to be flawed or faulty argument, whether this designer be the watchmaker, or yours - architect.

But whether you use the watchmaker or architect ploys, you have to remember that in real life, there are direct evidences for the existence of a human watchmaker or human architect for the designs of watches or buildings.

There are no direct evidences to support god(s), creator(s) or intelligent designer(s) of the universe or nature. God, divine creator or intelligent designer is all based on blind faith, superstitions, wishful thinking or delusion.

The whole watchmaker analogy is based on misinformation, and preying on some gullible people, who don't understand the meaning of empirical evidences, even if a goblin was to jump out of hole and pinch their collective a** cheeks. :foot:

I'm not getting into an argument with anyone is not willing to discuss it. The bible says clearly that those who do not see our blind and deluded. It is a very easy act to do if they are so in love with their physical senses. That is all.