What came before the Big Bang?

[Ouroboros]

First the simplest of elements and what you can do with it......
hydrogen and light.

Quarks in play.

Then the heavier elements and bestowing various but firm characters on each.

Then more quarks in play.

Then collection of said chemistry in little non-fusion balls.(planets)

Then the sorting of chemistry in planetary weather.

And quarks keep on playing.

Then life.

It's all part of life.

God as Someone that likes chemistry and science?......sure.....

No. God as the substrate to chemistry and science.

(and we are kinda like software as we redesign what we think our lives should be)

Eh. sure. If you want to think it that way.

The software is the spirit of the computer. What came first? The program or the RAM?

The hardware came first.

Then the first electric impulse came first, but not caused by the hardware.

The spirit of BIOS came alive, and it was first too.

Then the harddrive spun up, for the first time.

And the first OS was loaded into the RAM.

All because of a truckload of people through hundreds of years and lots of created technology and robots and a world we exist in all pre-existed before the "firsts" existed in your computer.

Everything is or has a first at some point. And all interconnects.

 

[Thief]

All or nothing?

Yet it remains ...the starting 'point' was singular.

The 'second' point cannot be allowed....and when it is.....infinity is simultaneous.

 

[Ouroboros]

All or nothing?

All interconnects.

Yet it remains ...the starting 'point' was singular.

Yet a limit function going to infinity. The point of singularity is like lim(1/x) for x->0(+). The time for the starting point then become eternal and infinite past.

The 'second' point cannot be allowed....and when it is.....infinity is simultaneous.

The second point doesn't exist.

Spirit is substance.

Substance is spirit.

 

[Thief]

All interconnects.


Yet a limit function going to infinity. The point of singularity is like lim(1/x) for x->0(+). The time for the starting point then become eternal and infinite past.


The second point doesn't exist.

DARN!...we almost agreed!
But really.....as that 'moment' gels and the secondary appears.....
so too infinity.

 

[Ouroboros]

DARN!...we almost agreed!
But really.....as that 'moment' gels and the secondary appears.....
so too infinity.

Substance begets spirit.

Spirit begets substance.

Substance begets spirit.

...

It's all the same.

---

Every moment you live and experience is a new moment.
The world is being the "First Cause", creating each and every moment in your life right now, right here.
Your spirit rise up from these ashes of matter, and can observe and experience the world.
By doing so, the superpositions of matter collapses to a given timeline.
It all connects. Information, process, time, space, "spirit", substance, existence, ...
Time having a beginning is just our perception. The timeline, the set of moments, is infinite. There never was a true "first".

 

[Thief]

Substance begets spirit.

Spirit begets substance.

Substance begets spirit.

...

It's all the same.

---

Every moment you live and experience is a new moment.
The world is being the "First Cause", creating each and every moment in your life right now, right here.
Your spirit rise up from these ashes of matter, and can observe and experience the world.
By doing so, the superpositions of matter collapses to a given timeline.
It all connects. Information, process, time, space, "spirit", substance, existence, ...
Time having a beginning is just our perception. The timeline, the set of moments, is infinite. There never was a true "first".

I might agree that time does not exist.....but linear motion does.

The past, present and future are linked....but the one direction only sign cannot be disobeyed.

I would concede a blend of spirit and substance....here we are....

for now.

 

[Revoltingest]

I might agree that time does not exist.....but linear motion does.

Given that motion is a change in location over time, how would motion exist without time?

 

[Thief]

Given that motion is a change in location over time, how would motion exist without time?

Motion results as an applied force.
Time is neither force or substance.

It is only a measurement.

 

[Revoltingest]

Motion results as an applied force.
Time is neither force or substance.
It is only a measurement.

Only a measurement?
Tell me that the next time you don't have enuf of it!
Anyway, how can we measure time if it doesn't even exist?

 

[metis]

Motion results as an applied force.
Time is neither force or substance.

It is only a measurement.

Time is often measured but one doesn't need to measure it in order to realize time has elapsed. Any movement of any type implies a change in time-- measured or not.

 

[Ouroboros]

I might agree that time does not exist.....but linear motion does.

Not in quantum mechanics it seems. A particle can somehow exist in multiple places based on a statistical equation. A physicist explained to me how quantum tunneling worked. Can't say I understand, but when you get down to quantum level, things aren't linear anymore. They're high-level dimensional.

The past, present and future are linked....but the one direction only sign cannot be disobeyed.

Except for when they make experiments where light travels backwards in time. Or something like that. There was some experiment where the cause-effect-temporality was reversed.

I would concede a blend of spirit and substance....here we are....

for now.

Good. I believe they are different modes of the same. Spirit is a word. The thing that's the "same" doesn't have a name. As soon as we give it a name, we give it a meaning and definition. We can't define what is undefinable. We can't name what is unnamable. This thing that is beyond all understanding didn't just cause the linear existence of this world, but is constantly the foundation and cause for every moment of our existence. There isn't a first cause. There are only continuous causation making this world to be this world. The first cause is always now.

 

[godnotgod]

I believe they are different modes of the same. Spirit is a word. The thing that's the "same" doesn't have a name. As soon as we give it a name, we give it a meaning and definition. We can't define what is undefinable. We can't name what is unnamable. This thing that is beyond all understanding didn't just cause the linear existence of this world, but is constantly the foundation and cause for every moment of our existence. There isn't a first cause. There are only continuous causation making this world to be this world. The first cause is always now.

Or perhaps more like a 'now you see it; now you don't kind of a seemingly cause and effect condition, in which the only reality is the indefinable, invisible Tao, and the phenomenal world it's manifestation.

The way the Hindus see it, the manifested world, ie; 'creation', lasts for millions of years and comes in 4 phases called kalpas. Then it ends in total destruction, But this world is but a dream of the sleeping godhead, and upon his awakening, vanishes, whereupon he walks in the Radiant state for a period of 4 kalpas, and then goes to sleep again, dreaming another yet another world. This cyclical scenario is consistent with the workings of nature. But only that which manifests it is still and real, and is sometimes termed as 'Ultimate Reality', 'Tao', 'The Absolute', 'Brahman', etc.

 

[Ouroboros]

Or perhaps more like a 'now you see it; now you don't kind of a seemingly cause and effect condition, in which the only reality is the indefinable, invisible Tao, and the phenomenal world it's manifestation.

Or like looking at a undefined position in a non-continuous function. Try to find 1/x for x=0. We can only go towards it, but never reach it.

The way the Hindus see it, the manifested world, ie; 'creation', lasts for millions of years and comes in 4 phases called kalpas. Then it ends in total destruction, But this world is but a dream of the sleeping godhead, and upon his awakening, vanishes, whereupon he walks in the Radiant state for a period of 4 kalpas, and then goes to sleep again, dreaming another yet another world. This cyclical scenario is consistent with the workings of nature. But only that which manifests it is still and real, and is sometimes termed as 'Ultimate Reality', 'Tao', 'The Absolute', 'Brahman', etc.

Exactly.

I remember that story from the Joseph Campbell material. I love that illustration.

 

[Thief]

Not in quantum mechanics it seems. A particle can somehow exist in multiple places based on a statistical equation. A physicist explained to me how quantum tunneling worked. Can't say I understand, but when you get down to quantum level, things aren't linear anymore. They're high-level dimensional.


Except for when they make experiments where light travels backwards in time. Or something like that. There was some experiment where the cause-effect-temporality was reversed.



Good. I believe they are different modes of the same. Spirit is a word. The thing that's the "same" doesn't have a name. As soon as we give it a name, we give it a meaning and definition. We can't define what is undefinable. We can't name what is unnamable. This thing that is beyond all understanding didn't just cause the linear existence of this world, but is constantly the foundation and cause for every moment of our existence. There isn't a first cause. There are only continuous causation making this world to be this world. The first cause is always now.

'it seems'....'can somehow'....'can't say (you) understand...'or something like that'....

In the beginning is something I CAN be sure of.

And my God doesn't have a name.

You can't take away the past.....now is so very fleeting....
Tomorrow never gets here.

Time is a measurement.
A cognitive device created by Man to serve Man.

It is not a force or a substance.
You can find it only on a chalkboard.

 

[godnotgod]

You can't take away the past.....now is so very fleeting....
Tomorrow never gets here.

If you still experience the present as 'fleeting' you are still operating in the world of time. The present is eternity. When was there ever a moment when the present did not exist?

 

[Thief]

If you still experience the present as 'fleeting' you are still operating in the world of time. The present is eternity. When was there ever a moment when the present did not exist?

Your question is inaccurate.
Please reconsider.

 

[godnotgod]

Your question is inaccurate.
Please reconsider.

So you are saying that at some time the present did NOT exist?

Please understand that when I say 'present', I am not referring to the current second as measured by the clock; I am referring to this timeless present moment, which is just one eternal moment, timeless and still, within which everything occurs.

 

[Gordian Knot]

If you still experience the present as 'fleeting' you are still operating in the world of time. The present is eternity. When was there ever a moment when the present did not exist?

If we understand the early cosmology of the universe, the only time there was never a 'present' was before the Big Bang. Time was created with everything else at the moment of the Big Bang.

 

[godnotgod]

If we understand the early cosmology of the universe, the only time there was never a 'present' was before the Big Bang. Time was created with everything else at the moment of the Big Bang.

Please re-read my post carefully: when I use the term 'present moment', I am not referring to time at all; I am referring to the 'timeless' present, which, essentially, is eternity itself. It is within this timeless present that everything exists and not-exists. Bottom line is that the BB is an event in consciousness, which is not limited by time or space.

 

[Gordian Knot]

Ah, I see. Should have read your post more closely. You are asking a question more of philosophy than science? You seem to be providing the question and the answer in your own post.

You defined the present as eternity. So why would you ask if there ever was a moment when the present did not exist? According to your definition the answer is obvious. Eternity is, well, eternal. So, no, there can never have been a moment when the present did not exist.

Or, I'm still missing something (not for the first time!).