What came before the Big Bang?

[Thief]

It's a singularity.

A singularity by definition has infinite mass and time. It's division by zero. Describing and defining God is to claim that 1/0 is defined instead of undefined.

God is only axiomatic. You can't prove God or God's properties. God is the base, source, foundation, substrate, or scaffolding to existence itself. God is "causing" us, the world, atoms, reactions, energy, magnetism, though, all of it, at once, right here, right now. There's no a first cause, but a constant causes at any given point of existence. That's how God can theoretically be omniscience, knowing everything, because knowing is to experience. Through the world going through the process, and we experiencing the world, God is learning and knowing all. A crude analogy would be that we're the neurons, the cells in God's brain.

A popular theoretical physicist has been noted to report....infinity is a problem.

Apparently you have found a way around that problem?

 

[Ouroboros]

A popular theoretical physicist has been noted to report....infinity is a problem.

Apparently you have found a way around that problem?

If infinity is a problem, the God is a problem. You choose.

 

[godnotgod]

A popular theoretical physicist has been noted to report....infinity is a problem.

Apparently you have found a way around that problem?

I don't think there is a problem at all. There is only a problem for physics. Maybe the math is trying to tell us something.

 

[Thief]

I don't think there is a problem at all. There is only a problem for physics. Maybe the math is trying to tell us something.

I might agree....except the 'problem' keeps shifting.

And then when interviewed other mathematicians do fess up that some of the indications can only be covered by further discussions of items that are even more fantastic than the item they were trying to explain in the first place.

 

[`mud]

First....there was a void of nothing.
Possibly....God resided there.
And in this void, in which resided God, a singularity existed, along with God.
Probably, God grasped the singularity and caused a creation of everything within the void to become everything else.
Along that passing of endless, unmeasured, distance not traveled, the void persisted into which everything merged.
The expansion still continues, within what containment ?
And still some are asking, of what is the container made ?
~
What created the water, that seperated all the firmaments,
from where did the water come ?
Still confused am I
~
'mud

 

[godnotgod]

First....there was a void of nothing.
Possibly....God resided there.
And in this void, in which resided God, a singularity existed, along with God.
Probably, God grasped the singularity and caused a creation of everything within the void to become everything else.
Along that passing of endless, unmeasured, distance not traveled, the void persisted into which everything merged.
The expansion still continues, within what containment ?
And still some are asking, of what is the container made ?
~
What created the water, that seperated all the firmaments,
from where did the water come ?
Still confused am I
~
'mud

What if the water and all the rest of 'creation' is not real, not a creation at all, but more of a projection? I think you are making it much too complicated by positing a God separate from the Void and the singularity. Would it not be simpler if the Void and the singularity are none other than the divine nature itself? That what you see and what you are and what you don't see all are the Absolute, in disguise as those things, playing a fantastic game of Hide and Seek, in which It is playing all the parts simultaneously? One in which you are, at this very moment, pretending not to know; pretending confusion, as part of the character the divine nature is also playing?

What could be more compelling than that?

 

[godnotgod]

I might agree....except the 'problem' keeps shifting.

And then when interviewed other mathematicians do fess up that some of the indications can only be covered by further discussions of items that are even more fantastic than the item they were trying to explain in the first place.

Of course the 'problem' keeps shifting. It's the old story of the three blind men touching different parts of the elephant and claiming them to be the elephant.

 

[Thief]

Of course the 'problem' keeps shifting. It's the old story of the three blind men touching different parts of the elephant and claiming them to be the elephant.

Not at all.
The change is continual and eternal.

I don't believe in reincarnation like some people do.

I think the transformation is spiritual.

But I don't think you can see the elephant in the room.

 

[godnotgod]

Not at all.
The change is continual and eternal.

I don't believe in reincarnation like some people do.

I think the transformation is spiritual.

But I don't think you can see the elephant in the room.

We were talking about how the view of physics keeps changing. You decided to shape-shift the topic over to the spiritual.

You're making things up again, Thief.

 

[Thief]

We were talking about how the view of physics keeps changing. You decided to shape-shift the topic over to the spiritual.

You're making things up again, Thief.

Contrary to popular belief among non-believers....
I didn't create God.

 

[metis]

I don't believe in reincarnation like some people do.

Why don't you believe in reincarnation, in terms of exactly what is your opinion based on?

 

[Ouroboros]

Not at all.
The change is continual and eternal.

I don't believe in reincarnation like some people do.

I think the transformation is spiritual.

But I don't think you can see the elephant in the room.

Hang on. I'm just trying to understand your view on incarnation and transformation here.

When you say it's a spiritual transformation but not an reincarnation, then you're saying that you get a new spirit?

If you believe that you're getting a new body in Heaven but have the same spirit as you have here, then it is a form of reincarnation (new physical body, re-in-carna loosely translated back-into-flesh).

 

[outhouse]

Why don't you believe in reincarnation, in terms of exactly what is your opinion based on?

So far in the absence of evidence provided from this individual on all subjects, personal opinion is all I have seen.

 

[factseeker88]

So far in the absence of evidence provided from this individual on all subjects, personal opinion is all I have seen.

Blame it all on Hubble and his red shift theory.

“[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence. The only consequence is WHAT WE DO.” John Ruskin (1819 - 1900) [/FONT]

 

[Thief]

Hang on. I'm just trying to understand your view on incarnation and transformation here.

When you say it's a spiritual transformation but not an reincarnation, then you're saying that you get a new spirit?

If you believe that you're getting a new body in Heaven but have the same spirit as you have here, then it is a form of reincarnation (new physical body, re-in-carna loosely translated back-into-flesh).

INcarnation......would be a life into flesh.
REincarnation...would be a return to life in the flesh.

I believe the transformation to be spiritual.
We become in spirit what we really are.

Some of us will take wing.....some of us will crawl away.

 

[godnotgod]

INcarnation......would be a life into flesh.
REincarnation...would be a return to life in the flesh.

I believe the transformation to be spiritual.
We become in spirit what we really are.

Some of us will take wing.....some of us will crawl away.

There they go....the Mongol Hordes!

 

[Thief]

....and we enter into heaven like children....

So I've read.

 

[godnotgod]

....and we enter into heaven like children....

So I've read.

Not exactly. You must become as little children or you shall not enter into Paradise, but remember, the Carpenter told you that the kingdom of God is within you. So what does becoming as children mean? It means to see without judgement; without discrimination. But children are taught to discriminate via morality by their society, and then become people who fail to understand that the kingdom lies within, now, and not in some imaginary future time and place they call 'the afterlife'. There is no such thing; there is only one life, and this is it. When you awaken to the fact that Paradise lies within, the outer world then becomes transformed. We then see it as it actually is, rather than how our discriminating minds conceptualize it. We then see that what we previously saw as ordinary and mundane, is none other than the Miraculous itself. Of course, it is always just that way, but our vision was in need of correction, a vision distorted by expectation of reward; by desire. We don't need reward; Paradise is already given unconditionally.

 

[Thief]

Not exactly. You must become as little children or you shall not enter into Paradise, but remember, the Carpenter told you that the kingdom of God is within you. So what does becoming as children mean? It means to see without judgement; without discrimination. But children are taught to discriminate via morality by their society, and then become people who fail to understand that the kingdom lies within, now, and not in some imaginary future time and place they call 'the afterlife'. There is no such thing; there is only one life, and this is it. When you awaken to the fact that Paradise lies within, the outer world then becomes transformed. We then see it as it actually is, rather than how our discriminating minds conceptualize it. We then see that what we previously saw as ordinary and mundane, is none other than the Miraculous itself. Of course, it is always just that way, but our vision was in need of correction, a vision distorted by expectation of reward; by desire. We don't need reward; Paradise is already given unconditionally.

We are digressing sharply.
But for the moment.....Here's what I believe.

If you judge by sight you will be judged on sight.
If you judge by rumor you will be judged by hearsay.
If you judge at all make certain your own mind and heart first.

Oh!...that's right you have neither mind or heart....you don't exist.

Heaven is guarded. The peace is protected.
Not all enter in.

 

[godnotgod]

Here's what I believe.

Heaven is guarded. The peace is protected.
Not all enter in.

And so, we arrive back at Square One, where we all have to listen to what you BELIEVE, rather than what you KNOW for certain. You don't KNOW there is an afterlife. Your beliefs about one don't actually tell us anything.

All we really know for certain is that we are here, now. But instead of paying attention to what is here, now, you go off into some imaginary heaven in some future time and place you don't know actually exists.

To believe in 'another realm' is nothing more than a substantial, delusive idea.

So where does that leave us?