What came before the Big Bang?

[godnotgod]

Picture yourself as God.....yes you can.

You have found an old man climbing on what people say to be your mountain.
He is eighty years old.
He is climbing that mountain to meet.....YOU.
He is coming to meet his Maker....and then die.

All these years have gone by, and now some old guy is the only one to dare trespass and look at YOU.

The nerve!

Well, ok.....

So you have a conversation, an introduction of sorts.
He can't really see your Face....so the burning bush trip will have to do.

And the conversation is difficult.
You can't really tell him how fusion of hydrogen makes light.

water is as close as it gets.

 

[godnotgod]

quote=Aman777
Dear The Adept, There were several events which happened BEFORE the Big Bang or the beginning of our Cosmos.

God created matter in the form of air, dust, and water, but darkness and death contaminated it because it was made APART from God ...

Adept:>>According to the bronze-age legends in The Book of Genesis; Water is the one thing that pre-existed and was not made by the bearded wonder. He sort of...found it. Darkness is the other thing he didn't make. It is but an absence of light of-course.

Dear Adept, Those are the ideas of men who lived thousands of years BEFORE Isaac Newton. The reason water wasn't shown as being "created" is that God KNEW that water is a combination of two gases in the air, so the first thing God made was Heaven or Air, with the oxygen and hydrogen necessary to make water.



Really? Since the first heaven, Adam's world, the world that THEN WAS was totally destroyed in the Flood, ll Peter 3:3-7 and since the heavens and earth, WHICH ARE NOW, are scheduled to be burned, and then ALL Christians will be taken to the THIRD Heaven, ll Corin. 12:2 where is this "sky" you are falsely supposing. Heavens are the boundaries of the separate Universes or Biospheres, within our Multiverse. Gen 1:6-8

Gen 2:4 shows that other HeavenS (Plural) were made on the 3rd Day. That's a Multiverse, composed of at least 3 other Universes

No reply? Can you tell us HOW ancient men could have possibly known this and written of it in Genesis, thousands of years ago? or do you suppose that ONLY God knew these scientific Truths, and since these Truths are STILL being discovered TODAY, are we reading the writings of a Supreme Being Who has exposed His Supreme Intelligence in His writing? just as all of us do daily on these boards? God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

You're just reading stuff into it that isn't really there. It's called 'making things up', and 'making the tail wag the dog'.

 

[Aman777]

You're just reading stuff into it that isn't really there. It's called 'making things up', and 'making the tail wag the dog'.

Dear godnotgod, False accusation. I support what I write with the AGREEMENT of Scripture, Science, and History. Be a little more specific in your disagreement and I will be happy to show you God's Truth, which is the Truth in EVERY way. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

 

[outhouse]

learn how to use the quote feature
aman

 

[Thief]

Yeah right!.....no scope of perspective on your part.

Got a better scenario?
or must you rely on cartoons for reference?

 

[atanu]

Dear atanu, Physics equations show that it can be very close. Parallel universes. [VIDEO]

The first heaven, the Universe of Adam was "clean dissolved" in the Flood. Isaiah 24:19
The present heaven, our Cosmos, will be burned. ll Peter 3:10
The future heaven for all Christians, will be forever. ll Corinthians 12:2 speaks of this heaven and Revelation 21:1 calls it the New Heaven and Earth.

Physicists claim as many as eleven heavens, some coming from Black Holes. Scripture simply tells us of other HeavenS (plural) which were made the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4 God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

So, will you as a Christian develop a special rocket for reaching the place?

 

[godnotgod]

Dear godnotgod, False accusation. I support what I write with the AGREEMENT of Scripture, Science, and History. Be a little more specific in your disagreement and I will be happy to show you God's Truth, which is the Truth in EVERY way. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

You begin with scripture, and then jump to conclusions, using science and history to seemingly support your beliefs. IOW, you make the tail wag the dog. Scripture cannot be trusted, as much of it is known to be corrupt, and even if it were genuine, men interpret its passages in differing ways. Mystics know that it is a second hand account of the first hand spiritual experience, so they go direct to the source itself, and only use scripture to support what they know by that experience. You are trying to use legitimate authority from other fields to give your beliefs the air of authenticity. The difference in approach is that of belief vs direct experience, or what is called 'divine union'. Yeshu told you about this: 'You search the scriptures for eternal life, but it is I whom the scriptures are about".

 

[godnotgod]

Yeah right!.....no scope of perspective on your part.

Got a better scenario?
or must you rely on cartoons for reference?

Yes, extreme measures are occasionally necessary to shock certain people into realizing what they are doing. Kind of like slapping a hysterical person to make them come to their senses. :slap:

 

[Thief]

Yes, extreme measures are occasionally necessary to shock certain people into realizing what they are doing. Kind of like slapping a hysterical person to make them come to their senses. :slap:

Maybe I should set fire to the bush you keep running circles around.

Nothing like a burning bush to gaze upon!!!!!!!!!

 

[Aman777]

So, will you as a Christian develop a special rocket for reaching the place?

Dear atanu, No, but I will mount up my wings as Eagles and meet Jesus in the Air and forever be with Him there. Isa 40:31 1Th 4:17 God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

 

[Aman777]

You begin with scripture, and then jump to conclusions, using science and history to seemingly support your beliefs. IOW, you make the tail wag the dog. Scripture cannot be trusted, as much of it is known to be corrupt, and even if it were genuine, men interpret its passages in differing ways. Mystics know that it is a second hand account of the first hand spiritual experience, so they go direct to the source itself, and only use scripture to support what they know by that experience. You are trying to use legitimate authority from other fields to give your beliefs the air of authenticity. The difference in approach is that of belief vs direct experience, or what is called 'divine union'. Yeshu told you about this: 'You search the scriptures for eternal life, but it is I whom the scriptures are about".

Dear godnotgod, False accusation. IF Scripture is the Truth, and it is, then it MUST agree with EVERY discovery of Science and History. Religionists change God's Truth into Fables and spew them forth in the way you describe, but some Bible Believing Christians, like myself, search for God's Truth which agrees with man's accumulated knowledge. Science is NOT searching for Lies and neither are we. IF you don't agree, then refute me SCRIPTURALLY. I don't think you can, and you will expose your Scriptural illiteracy for all to see, so be careful. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

 

[viole]

Nothing else explains the outcome.

So, if I see a new form of interaction, can I deduce that it is non local because "nothing else explains the outcome"? What kind of logical deduction is this?

You are begging the question. You already start from a position in which consciousness is a non local whatever, and stop inquiry. You are just happy with that?

What about measuring it precisely, like any decent scientist would do? It is pretty simple as I showed you with the example of the two subjects located at the antipodes.

Remember, you can kill modern science by doing that simple experiment if you can prove non locality of message transmission to the whole world. So, why don't they do it?

I think the answer to that is obvious. Don't you think so?

Ciao

- viole

 

[atanu]

I have asked twice, in vain, as to what implications scientists attribute to the instantaneous communication between two paired particles separated over distance?

 

[viole]

I have asked twice, in vain, as to what implications scientists attribute to the instantaneous communication between two paired particles separated over distance?

What instantaneous communication?

You cannot transmit any useful information, instantaneously. There is theorem that proves that.

All you can do is to infer the state of a remote entangled particle once you measure its partner, if they both share the same inherently random state initially.

Ciao

- viole

 

[godnotgod]

What instantaneous communication?

You cannot transmit any useful information, instantaneously. There is theorem that proves that.

All you can do is to infer the state of a remote entangled particle once you measure its partner, if they both share the same inherently random state initially.

Ciao

- viole

Your science can only address signal communication. Non-local communication is signal-less.

 

[godnotgod]

So, if I see a new form of interaction, can I deduce that it is non local because "nothing else explains the outcome"? What kind of logical deduction is this?

You assume there must be a logical, rational explanation. That is the limit of Reason and Science. Quantum Physics does not conform to classical logic. One has to think in a new way, and yet, we still do not actually understand what we are seeing. Holography cannot be explained by logic, and I think it is tightly associated with non-locality and instantaneous, signal-less communication. Fractals cannot be explained by logic. on and on. Science always assumes there will be a logical explanation forthcoming. In the case of Jacobo Grinberg, we can use deductive logic to arrive at a reasonable conclusion, and that is simply that nothing in science can explain what we see. So, if our logic is consistent, we would conclude that there must be some other form of knowledge that leads us to understanding. A good number of physicists reach a point in their investigation in which their intuitive minds come into play, and they adopt a mystical approach to their understanding, which, for them, fleshes out their science. Einstein was one of these men, along with Plank, Goswami, Capra, and others.

The reason non-locality is a paradox to logic is because logic is a system that is attempting to 'explain' nature in the terms of logic. Thai is backwards, and for that reason, mystics access nature directly first, and then can see how logic fits into reality, not how reality fits the methodology of logic.

The outcome of Jacobo Grinberg cannot go any further via scientific investigation, even though a scientific experiment got us to that point, much as the first double slit experiment revealed QM. Logic cannot address the brain to brain connection in JG where there is no actual physical connection in the ordinary sense. Mystics already know that non-local consciousness is the key to understanding this, because they experience it first-hand.

You might find this of interest: http://www.spaceandmotion.com/Philosophy-Fritjof-Capra.htm

 

[atanu]

What instantaneous communication?

You cannot transmit any useful information, instantaneously. There is theorem that proves that.

All you can do is to infer the state of a remote entangled particle once you measure its partner, if they both share the same inherently random state initially.

Ciao

- viole

Aspect's conclusion was:

"A pair of entangled photons should be considered as a global, inseparable quantum system".

How he separated photons communicate is conjecture at best.

 

[godnotgod]

Dear godnotgod, False accusation. IF Scripture is the Truth, and it is....

That's just an arbitrary position. If scripture were really the 'truth', you would have no need of having to back it up with science and history. It would be self-evident. Having said that, I am not saying that all scripture is meaningless; but much of it is corrupted. We know that for a fact.

 

[Thief]

That's just an arbitrary position. If scripture were really the 'truth', you would have no need of having to back it up with science and history. It would be self-evident. Having said that, I am not saying that all scripture is meaningless; but much of it is corrupted. We know that for a fact.

oh no you don't.....you can't say that.

If truth was self evident.....discussion would not be needed.
That you offer discussion implies the other guy can't see the truth.
Therefore truth is not self evident.

But you can see it?.....yeah right!

Science is not a source of truth.
Neither is history.
Science makes correction now and then.
So too, history.

Science isn't going to explain the big bang sufficiently.
The experiment won't fit in the petri dish.
The equations won't work without a number system.
There's nothing to count.

History needs a timeline.
Time at the point of singularity does not exist.
No previous record of any previous event.

 

[Aman777]

Originally Posted by Aman777
Dear godnotgod, False accusation. IF Scripture is the Truth, and it is....

That's just an arbitrary position. If scripture were really the 'truth', you would have no need of having to back it up with science and history. It would be self-evident. Having said that, I am not saying that all scripture is meaningless; but much of it is corrupted. We know that for a fact.

Dear godnotgod, The method by which scientists are measuring Scripture is according to the Ancient Goatherder Theological position, which is NOT True according to Scripture, Science NOR History. NO anicent man, who lived thousands of years before Science, could possibly know the scientific facts which are revealed in Genesis. Such as:

We live in a Multiverse. Gen 1:6-8 and Gen 2:4
The Big Bang of our Cosmos was on the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4
The FIRST Stars of our Cosmos did NOT put forth light until the 4th Day. Gen 1:16 This is a recent discovery in the last 50 years. How did ancient men know that 3k years ago? I have many more including the Fact that "every living creature that moveth" was created and brought forth from the Water on the 5th Day, Gen 1:21 which was some 3.7 Billion years ago, in man's time.

God hid His Truth from Unbelievers but promised to reveal it "to the time of the end".

Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Congratulations for you have made it to the time of the end. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman