Yes of course and I acknowledge that the Prophets and religions that came before Jesus were of God and They taught us many valuable lessons like the Ten Commandments.
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What Did Jesus Actually Do?
- Thread starter Rival
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Yes of course and I acknowledge that the Prophets and religions that came before Jesus were of God and They taught us many valuable lessons like the Ten Commandments.
You misunderstood my figure of speech. I meant that if Jesus did not appear we would have been deprived of many of His glorious teachings.
Such as?
Let me try and explain. Just like there was Moses Who taught the Israelites so too I believe God has sent Educators to every culture on earth to educate and guide people.
So what Moses taught Jesus expanded upon and after that Muhammad expanded that to create the nation state in Arabia and now Baha’u’llah has appeared to guide us to world unity. So all the Prophets expand upon the others as humanity develops the capacity of higher understanding.
Yeah, I understand how your religion works but it makes G-d look like he doesn't know what he's doing.
I give up. Jesus did nothing.
I say that it's not. The world gets better as politicized, organized Christianity's cultural hegemony continues to wane.
Another bitter Christian heard from, one who justifies his beliefs by resenting those that have no need for them and insulting them for that. Sorry, but I have a better worldview than the one you settled for. I have no need to insult you for my beliefs. My disapproval is rooted in your anger and poor manners. Perhaps you would be happier as a secular humanist.
Nonsense.
The West is indebted to secular humanism for modern life in liberal, democratic, secualr states that guarantee individual rights, not Christianity of its Bible, which demands worship of its god or else..
You won't find Enlightenment values ideas in your Bible, which commands obeisance to divinely appointed kings.
I emphatically reject Christianity, and my worldview is entirely consistent with the dominant values of the West. Christians don't get to steal the ideals of secular humanism and claim them as their own. Christians think that believing by faith and submitting to gods and kings is a good idea. I strenuously disagree.
Just compare the US Constitution with Christianity's equivalent, the Bible. There is almost no overlap.
Disagree. I reject virtually everything attributed to Jesus as wrong or irrelevant apart from the Golden Rule, which Jesus stole from the moral geniuses who preceded him.
Nobody has contradicted you except by making unsupported claims.
Manoah
Member
Mark reports that Jesus as a rabbi "declared all foods clean," saying it's what comes out of a person not what goes into a person that makes her or him unclean. In my mind, this is progressive revelation or new wine in new wine skins. It does not destroy the law but fulfills the spirit of the existing law.
Now the trick question in the post can dispense with this biblical record and teaching as myth and fiction as I suppose we can do with Noah and all the rest. But this teaching to me seems like one example of a move forward in thinking.
Now the trick question in the post can dispense with this biblical record and teaching as myth and fiction as I suppose we can do with Noah and all the rest. But this teaching to me seems like one example of a move forward in thinking.
Jesus was not, as far as Jewish historical records tell us, even a known teacher let alone a rabbi. And this new teaching is heresy. The Torah is to be kept by the Israelites forever.
I do not believe it is fiction, but what is so special about Jesus that he has been exaulted to godhood? Not Noach, nor Avraham neither Moshe were taken for gods, nor any of the prophets, kings or rabbis.
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Well as they don’t mean anything to you what’s the point in quoting them? To me and billions the New Testament is filled with His Wisdom, His parables and teachings and counsel and also many prophecies about what was to come.
This is exactly what I'm asking: what has Jesus done to earn himself such a huge place in history that non-Christians can appreciate? His life seems to have been inflated beyond all real relevence.
He has united billions with God the Creator. Brought people closer to God. His is a spiritual, moral achievement not a worldly one.
His teachings focused on creating spiritual beings with upright and virtuous characters.,loving, forgiving, self sacrificing. To help the poor was one of His most important teachings.
Orphanages, charities, schools, hospitals, humanitarian organisations are just a few of the outward expressions of His glorious Spirit.
But as with all Prophets His main duty was to unite man with God and create of man a noble being.
Manoah
Member
If we are limited to these Jewish historical records, there really is no room for discussion. And it doesn't matter if the teaching is heretical, only influential by your demand that Jesus has accomplished something.
One example of a secular positive response to the teachings of Jesus (unless the trick question assumes there are no teachings of Jesus!) is Benjamin Franklin who enumerated his 13th virtue as "Imitate Jesus and Socrates."
Godhood is only a matter of faith. You can fairly be outraged at such exaltations when they seem wrong to you!
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Hasn’t the Life and teachings of Jesus united billions with God? Isn’t that something?
I'm just not sure that being a heretic is an accomplishment lol.
But why imitate them? Why not, say, Buddha and the Jain masters? Or why not imitate King Arthur and King David? It seems driven by one's own culture.
There were plenty of people teaching folk to do this before and after Jesus. This isn't really anything special or noteworthy.
Manoah
Member
Dissent is very important.
We should imitate them. I don't know why BF picked Jesus. I thought he was deist.
But did they have the success He has had all over the world?
Every person of the billions who accept Jesus also accept Moses and the Mosaic Dispensation. So in fact wasn’t Jesus the One Who spread belief of Moses all over the world?
How many now accept Moses and the Prophets of Israel thanks to Jesus? Strictly speaking wasn’t Jesus the greatest Jewish Preacher in human history.
Jesus didn't spread this message; his followers did. To contrast, Muhammad had successfully converted most of Arabia within his own lifetime. It took Jesus' followers 70-odd years even to write anything and Jesus had been dead for tens of years by this time.
They do not believe anything like what Moshe believed and taught. They believe a corrupt, anti-Jewish doctrine that literally tried to annihilate the Jews. Good News?
No, the greatest heretic. If the Jews had been left alone to do what G-d gave to them to do without Christianity hindering them and trying to murder them all, who knows that the Noachide Law could have spread far and wide? We will never know, because the Christians crushed it.
Jeremiah Ames
Well-Known Member
That was the purpose of the teachings, but reality in this world is something different.
Jeremiah Ames
Well-Known Member
The time I have spent in various Christian churches, I have not witnessed what you speak of here. Pretty much the opposite.
If only what you speak of were true, we would have are far better world to live in.
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