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What did Jesus Look Like?
- Thread starter Yeshua_Lives
- Start date
OnePointSix18
Member
I appreciate the recognition. I think that religion and critical inquiry are the most important conversations we can have.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Isaiah does NOT talk about a future Jesus.
It talks about Isaiah's son Emmanuel, given to THEM as a sign that YHVH was with them in the war they were fighting.
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Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Abrahamic archaeologists have been proven wrong over and over, because they go in with preconceived ideas, and finding something like them, jump to conclusions and name their digs as Biblical finds.
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Reading many of your posts it is obvious that you show bias favouring atheism apart from the fact that some of your ego regarding your self knowledge sticks out its head.
I did not say so, I said I perceived it from your statement regarding the "educated"
You don't know me from a bar of soap and your thoughts on my biblical knowledge or education is far from correct.
I was a deacon and on the church welfare council in my youth and received the highest marks for the "confirmation" exam.
I did not loose faith in any religion. Faith is not religion bound. I have moved into the realm of beyond the pettiness as shown by many atheists and theists.
ALL REALITIES ARE MY REALITY. Do you comprehend what this means?
When my father died before I was five years old my mind and eyes opened and I saw more than you will ever know or see.
When I say I embrace the Universe you appear to have no concept of its meaning and how open minded I am to all things.
Walk in beauty
He talks about the Jewish Messiah. Jesus did appear to fit the picture but the Jews rejected him because he did not come to smite their enemies with blood lust and the sword; Instead he preached love and forgiveness and a peaceful way of life. Emmanuel - God with us - was one of the proposed names.
The following is a link concerning the names of Jesus.
http://biblehub.com/greek/2424.htm
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Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
That is absolutely wrong.
We have had this discussion many times.
The text very specifically says the sign was for THEM.
The war is the start of the text, - and the same war is still being discussed after Isaiah goes into the maiden/virgin/prophetess, - and after the birth.
The Jews rightly reject this Christian twisting of THEIR text, because they know it is taking place right then during that war.
Edit - Forgot to add, - I find it hilarious that Christians twist this text about someone ordered to be called Emmanuel, and plunk it on a person named Iēsous - NOT EMMANUEL.
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Sorry you must have been typing when I added a link concerning the name Jesus.
The link is as follows - http://biblehub.com/greek/2424.htm
Many Jews were the first followers of Yeshua and they accepted him as their Messiah. These were of the Naasene/Essene and the original followers were persecuted and slain to the point of extinction.
He who came later was seen as the new star who would smite their enemies. He started a disastrous war against the Romans. Ask Eliab Ben Benjamin whose lineage traces back to this man about this man.
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Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Isa 7:1 And it came to pass in the days of Ahaz the son of Jotham, the son of Uzziah, king of Judah, that Rezin the king of Syria, and Pekah the son of Remaliah, king of Israel, went up toward Jerusalem to war against it, but could not prevail against it.
Isa 7:3 Then said the LORD unto Isaiah, Go forth now to meet Ahaz, thou, and Shearjashub thy son, at the end of the conduit of the upper pool in the highway of the fuller's field;
Isa 7:10 Moreover the LORD spake again unto Ahaz, saying, (Isaiah is with him.)
Isa 7:11 Ask thee a sign of the LORD thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above.
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Isa 7:15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
Isa 7:16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.
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It contradicts your statement that what I said is possibly untrue. You can check it by Googling Essene, Naassene and/or the Dead Sea Scrolls.
As an aside and not relevant to the discussion -
1. When the "Visions of Isaiah" came to light in the Dead Sea Scrolls it was immediately suppressed for other planets and confirmation of the theory of relativity was too far for some to accept.
2. And just for a laugh - in the Dead Sea Scrolls Jesus explains how to give yourself an enema using a gourd.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
It contradicts your statement that what I said is possibly untrue. You can check it by Googling Essene, Naassene and/or the Dead Sea Scrolls.
As an aside and not relevant to the discussion -
1. When the "Visions of Isaiah" came to light in the Dead Sea Scrolls it was immediately suppressed for other planets and confirmation of the theory of relativity was too far for some to accept.
2. And just for a laugh - in the Dead Sea Scrolls Jesus explains how to give yourself an enema using a gourd.
We were discussing Emmanuel not being the future Jesus.
You adding a bit about his name - which obviously does not become Emmanuel - in your posted text.
It thus has no meaning to our debate.
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Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
I thought I should add a little more about this.
Of course the Jews were his first followers, - as he was a Jew, - preaching in his homeland.
He claimed to be the awaited Jewish Messiah, - not a God, - or part of any trinity.
Claiming to be the awaited Jewish Messiah - has nothing to do with the Isaiah Emmanuel text.
People writing after his death, apparently wanting to make him more special, and misunderstanding Isaiah, added the Isaiah virgin birth story to his story.
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I don't have any problems with your quotes as they mainly refer to the time of Isaiah.
Isa 7:16 is more in line with the coming. The Kings and the land where long gone and forsaken when the birth came to pass.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Not so - as is easily proven by reading the whole text.
The Kings are mentioned in verse one.
And it specifically says the sign is for Ahaz - which it obviously would not be if it was a future person.
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Yeshua when we look at the name it was derived from and finally ending up with YHWE, to me has meaning in the debate.
for it indicates GOD and Emmanuel to me indicates God with us.
Yet it says those Kings will be gone and forsaken. And where do they confirm the pregnancy and birth by a virgin except far in the future?
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
You seem to be missing the point that it says his name is to be Emmanuel, - not Iēsous, - which is also not Yeshua/Yehoshua.
Also the Christian page you sent us to said Jesus is a translation of Iēsous. This is not correct. Jesus is a guttural corruption of Iēsous.
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Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Did you miss that BEFORE?
Isa 7:16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.
Before this child is old enough to understand to refuse evil, - the two king from verse one will be forsaken.
Those two Kings are mentioned in verse one as warring against Jerusalem, at that time, with Ahaz and Isaiah being involved in that war.
And Again it says the sign is for Ahaz.
Isa 8:18 Behold, I (Isaiah) and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.
And it is still talking about the same war in 20.
Isa 20:2 At the same time spake the LORD by Isaiah the son of Amoz, saying, Go and loose the sackcloth from off thy loins, and put off thy shoe from thy foot. And he did so, walking naked and barefoot.
PS - Not a virgin - a maiden.
Forgot to add that even STRONG'S tells us Emmanuel is Isaiah's son. Look it up.
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No I am not missing the point, I tried to clarify where the name Jesus and the derivations of the original word came from.
Isn't this changing a foreign word into your own language a translation or Folk Etymology where the original meaning remains unchanged?
Americans say an automobile and the English say a motor car. Just different words for the same thing. Or Sotho "Bhuruku" (they never had trousers only loin cloths) for Afrikaans "Broek". (pronounced brook)