What I meant was within the religion itself. As in, you never once hear Jesus say "slay the infidels wherever they may be" or things of this natured. Nor any of the main prophets of the religions I listed. Men do stupid things in the name of religion, but that doesn't mean the religion is the fault of it. That applies to Islam too.
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What do Christians really think about the Qur'an
- Thread starter MathewJames
- Start date
What I meant was within the religion itself. As in, you never once hear Jesus say "slay the infidels wherever they may be" or things of this natured. Nor any of the main prophets of the religions I listed. Men do stupid things in the name of religion, but that doesn't mean the religion is the fault of it. That applies to Islam too.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
That is so incorrect. I was a practicing Muslim right here in the United States. I wasn't the only Muslim here in the United States. In fact, there are millions of Muslims in the United States. There are millions of Muslims in "progressive" cultures. So obviously, Islam can cross cultural divides, as it has.
Islam is not partial to any race, culture, or gender. That is why it is practiced by such a diverse amount of people, the same way as Christianity is.
wordmagnifiedabovenames
Active Member
I respectfully disagree. To me it seems some of the characteristics of Yahweh in the Bible dont line up with some of the characteristics of Allah in the Qur'an. Some of the things Yahweh says contradict some things that Allah says. Each has a sererate method of salvation, different ideas about what people will do once in Heaven (or paradise,) a different stance on when a person should tell the truth, different ideas about their own relationship with man etc. The only way I can see to explain this is that each are different; they are not the same.fallingblood said:
Apparently the Arabic term "allah" just means "God." It seems logical that Jews and Christians in Arabia who speak Arabic would use it to address God (Yahweh,) because He is God. However, to take an anology, consider someone addressing a hypothetical envelope with "allah (God,) Heaven." Yahweh would receive it because He is God. If however, upon opening it, the first line read "to the one who instructed angels (Jinn) to bow down and worship the first man," Yahweh would know that whoever wrote the letter wasn't addresssing Him, because Yahweh didn't instruct angels to bow down and worship Adam. In certain scriptures (in the Bible) He expressly forbids it. This hypothetical letter can only be meant for the "god" the qur'an calls "allah," not Yahweh. There is a huge difference between them.
Those things you've listed may be "fruits" of Islam, but are they what God considers to be "good fruit," (and to have come from a "good tree,") in the context of whether someone is a "false prophet?" Does writing poetry prove that what a person says about God is true? Does using a certain kind of architecture prove that a person is speaking a message from God?wombat said:
Yet.wombat said:
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Jacksnyte
Reverend
"To me it seems some of the characteristics of Yahweh in the Bible dont line up with some of the characteristics of Allah in the Qur'an. Some of the things Yahweh says contradict some things that Allah says."
This argument is rather shaky due to the fact that certain characteristics of the divinity you mistakenly refer to as "Yahweh" contradict each other within the old testament, not to mention the discrepancies between old and new testaments. The origins of Judaism, Islam, and Christianity are the same! Hence founded by people who worshipped the same god!
This argument is rather shaky due to the fact that certain characteristics of the divinity you mistakenly refer to as "Yahweh" contradict each other within the old testament, not to mention the discrepancies between old and new testaments. The origins of Judaism, Islam, and Christianity are the same! Hence founded by people who worshipped the same god!
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
The God in the Old Testament, and the God in the New Testament don't always line up either. In fact, the God in the Old Testament doesn't always line up with what one would expect. As in, he changes.
God contradicts himself, that is seen in the Bible as well.
The same thing is seen between the Old Testament and the New Testament in the Bible.
Then it would make sense, by your logic, that the God of the Old Testament is different from the God of the New Testament. Actually, during the formative years of Christianity, some Christians believed just that. Marcion is a great example.
There is the problem. There are different ideas about God. Allah, as far as we can tell, always referred to this one God. In fact, that is what Islam teaches and has always taught. This becomes clear when reading the Quran, and just knowing it's history, as well as tradition. To try to separate Allah into a new god, there becomes many problems. Especially since no one seems to know who this god was.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
to accurately practice islam in america, you would have to break american laws
Islam has its own judiciary system and if you were truly practicing islam in america you'd be a lawbreaker. So you may have been practicing a 'form' of islam....but it was a watered down form of islam.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
Nope, not at all. What laws do you think would have to be broken?
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
polygamy , death penalty for immorality, floggings for bad behavior, wife beating, sex with minors
sharia laws from an ancient culture cannot be practiced because they are illegal in all countries except arab countries.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
No. That is just ridiculous. It simply shows your ignorance on the subject. Being a Muslim does not mean one has to practice polygamy, have sex with minors, beat their wives, or punish anyone.
Please, before you respond to this, get some accurate information, and not this hateful propaganda.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
sharia laws allow for all these things.
Sex with minors to us is not sex with minors in the arab world. A 12 year old girl can be married over there.. Muhammad married a younger girl. Over there you can do that, but in America you would be charged with pedophilia.
Im sorry, its not hateful at all what im saying...its factual.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
So all Muslims agree with those Sharia Laws? That is not the case. There are difference of opinions. And still, the key word is allow. They are not commanded. Thus, there is no reason to assume that Muslims have to break laws to actually be Muslims.
Joseph most like married a younger woman as well. Mary was probably a teenage. That was the common situation at that time.
And you aren't talking about Islam now, you are talking about various cultures. Huge difference. More so, the vast majority of Muslims don't live in the Arab world. So there is a problem there.
It's not factual. And spreading that type of misinformation creates hate.
Well it really is not factual. The law of some Arab countries allow that.Sharia law is the name of the laws of God as laid out in the Quran. These countries may claim Sharia but you can always read a Quran to see they are not. It's not a culture I agree with or admire, and as a Muslim I hope they will get back to the teaching of God or just go totally secular.( p.s. up until very recently girls were married 12 and younger in several states. Girls were married as early as 9 in the early colonies and that's a lot more recent than the advent of Islam)
The facts are Muhammed (pbuh) didn't attempt to spread corruption and violence or masogony or the repression of women. The Quran is clear about these things. The requirements for a man to have another wife make it near impossible for a well intentioned Muslim man to do so.
Defending life, liberty and property are something we hold dear in The USA today. and Muhammed (pbuh) did so only with Gods permission. He didn't arbitrarily go around committing violence and when violence was withdrawn by the offending party he withdrew as well.
The bottom line, if you dislike Islam, it is pointless to read anything about it, your bias will never allow you to gain anything. It is like trying to see a bright blue sky with rose colored glasses. The red won't let in the blue.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
thats not what I said.
You tell me, can a muslim practice sharia law freely in any western country?
thats right, different time different culture
try and do that in our modern times in a western land and you'll be arrested.
We have huge issues here in australia with some clerics who teach sharia laws to their members...the reason why there are issues is because we've had some teachers come out publically and say its ok to slap your wife around...we also have many muslims here practicing polygamy which is illegal in this country.
Islam was made for a particular culture at a particular time...its got nothing to do with hate, its just the way it is.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
I don't think you quite understand Sharia law. When I was a practicing Muslim, I would not have had the right, if I was married, to beat my wife. I didn't have the right to flog someone because they had bad behavior. There is still a judicial system.
I practiced Sharia law with no problem here. I really don't think you know what Sharia Law is, and actually, there are different thoughts on it.
Not quite. There are various states in which I could have gotten married at 15, and I think at least one in which I could at 14. So you're wrong.
That is where you are wrong. You are simply ignorant as to what Sharia Law and Islam teaches. You keep trying to support your view, but it simply isn't "the way it is."
Yes, some Muslims are extreme in their views. Some Christians are just the same. I've heard of stories of individuals cutting off their hands because they sinned with it. Various Christians have killed in the name of God, claimed that a wife should be submissive (and it's come up in rape trials), etc. You can't judge the whole based on some crazies. That simply is not logical, and it does nothing more than spread hate.
Again, you need to learn more about Sharia Laws. Basing your judgement on a couple of misfits simply won't do. Especially considering that most Muslims are fine, decent, upright citizens, who have none of the problems you described. That in itself should show that you're wrong with your opinion.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
i have no problem with muslims... my opinion is that the Quran and its Arabic focused content cannot be fully practiced in many nations. That is all.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
And that opinion is simply wrong, as has been pointed out by myself, and many others in this thread. The fact that I could be a practicing Muslim in the United States shows, beyond a doubt, that your stance is incorrect.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
does this mean that a muslim may practice polygamy openly and freely in america? Or could the muslim community open a sharia court in America and administer Islamic justice outside of Americas legal system?
if the answer is yes then i'll more then happily change my opinion and admit that I was wrong
Energy
Seeker
Well, I'm not religious, but I was raised Catholic. My parents are very open-minded, so I wasn't raised with negative ideas about the Islamic religion. I didn't really learn anything about Islam at all. But when I went to the library and saw some good books about Islam, I started learning more and more about this religion. And I think that Islam is a very peaceful religion, but unfortunately, there's always a small group of people that does negative things in the name of God. But I don't blame Islam itself for it.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
You don't have to practice polygamy to be a Muslim, so it is a moot point.
Second, you still don't understand Sharia law.
Gaura Priya
IRL
There are Muslims who reject Shari'a and reject the hadiths (purported sayings of Muhammad the Prophet) and accept the Qur'an alone as the source of a Muslim's life.
There is no wife beating in the Qur'an, except what has been translated out of context by chauvinists. The proper translation of the verse, is actually 'to separate' from one's wife.